Elon Musk ‘Secretly’ Used Starlink To Foil A Ukrainian Attack On Russian Naval Fleet Over Fear Of Nuclear War: Report

- I think technically they're more "terrorists" than "rogue nations"
  
  I mean 9/11 was performed by some rich family member.
- Frankly I am mad that people are only seeing this now.
  Between billionaires and trillion dollar companies, many of them are richer than most nations.
- Easiest solution in the world is to treat them to the guillotine

Is this not treason? Like legitimately, technically.
- It may be a violation of the Logan Act, which makes it illegal for private citizens to interfere with foreign relations.
  
  The Logan Act deals with private citizens negotiating with foreign governments. Unless he fucked with Starlink at the direct request of the Russian gov't, I don't see how the Logan Act applies. EDIT: apparently he did it after speaking with Russian government officials. So never mind, Logan Act is absolutely implicated.
- Against Ukraine certainly, but since he's not a citizen of Ukraine, then no. If these were US forces that he sabotaged, or the US was actually fighting in the war then it would also qualify, but once again that doesn't apply. It definitely runs counter to US foreign interests, but that's not enough to qualify (and probably good it doesn't, a LOT of stuff people regularly do it could be argued would run counter to US foreign interests).
  
  He did this with federal funds. And the US hasn’t declared war since, what, WW2? The Rosenbergs were executed for treason, and we never declared war with USSR.
  
  This reeks of espionage. With a slight hint of war crimes?
  
  This has nothing to do with being Ukrainian, but everything to do with being American, and actively working against American interests and official national and White house policies.
  He is actively working against the support USA is providing, and has paid him for, and has ordered him not to sabotage or diminish.
  This is treason, which is logical, since Elon Musk is a Trump supporter and they are both traitors and Elon Musk is a pedophile Nazi.
- Treason is very narrowly defined in US law. The US is not at war with Russia, and the US is not Ukraine, so no, it's not.
  
  Sedition?

It's cute how if Ukraine fights back that risks nuclear war, but when Russia invades a sovereign country it doesn't
- It's like the rule of money, but with nukes: those who have the money/nukes, make the rules.
- I'll probably get downvoted to hell but America's done that for hot minute now and also evades any real criticism from the West. And yes, Russia bad and invasion bad, no question but if we're keeping score...
  
  Fuck Woodrow Wilson. Wilsonian Doctrine wasn't even close to the worst thing that shitstain caused while president.
  Worst. President. Ever.
  
  In what conflict were people criticized for fighting back against the US because it could cause a nuclear war?
- Ukraine doesn’t have nukes
  
  Not anymore. They gave them to Russia under guarantees they wouldt do... pretty much everything they are doing right now.
  I'm starting to think Russia might not be trustworthy...
  
  That doesn’t address the previous claim in any manner.

Hang on... That's sabotage. Straight up. That's a criminal offence no?
- Yes. Assisting putler's genocide against Ukrainian children is a war crime.
- Yep, but he's rich. I fully expect nothing to happen.
  
  Yeah. According to the article, he straight up told the top military brass of the Biden administration right afterwards and they did nothing. No prosecution, no whistle-blowing to the press about a war crime. Nothing.
- Check his party affiliation
- What
- For what countries laws? He's not a Ukrainian citizen
  
  So if you're not an American you're free to sabotage the US as much as you want and it's not a crime?

If he loves Russia so much, we should deport him there, and nationalize all his assets since SpaceX is a critical security apparatus and he's clearly the foreign agent of a hostile power.
- No no, give him to Ukrain, where they can charge and try him. Hopefully end up with life in prison or something better (worse?). Giving him to Russia just makes him more of a Russian asset.
  
  Or OR we ask him to emerge from the Black Sea in his swim trunks to beguile both sides with his majestic beauty and raw sexuality, thereby ending the conflict and bringing peace to the region
  
  This assumes he provides something of value beyond his money

Elon is not the president, a leader, the military, nor a government. This parasite should be in a prison or a brig at the very least. This is fucking treason.
- He controls 10K satellites, the electric car charging infrastructure, and a massive global communications platform. He's too big to control. Good thing we hero-worshipped him for years. 🫢 🤭
  
  He doesn't personally control any of that. Each of those organizations could continue on without him, probably happier to be rid of him.
  
  Too big? Hold my TCP/IP stack......
- I've heard this a bit. Treason is a crime against your own country, no? How is this treason?
  
  He's twarthing the war effort of a country the US is supporting. I don't know if he broke any laws but he's defenitely on the government's shitlist now.
  
  It's not. His actions can be deplorable without actually being illegal. The Lemmy Bar Association is about as legally competent as my cat.
  
  So if during the occupation of Afghanistan, I fought for the Taliban but only killed Afghan Army soldiers, I could return to the USA without any worries?
  Giving comfort to the enemy has a name, what is it again?
- St Helena.
- Can donnie Bin Laden join him in there?

Fucking charge him with something. This is insane... If it's not treason, it sure as hell is undermining the billions of dollars in aid were sending Ukraine. We've sent 76 billion dollars so far.
- Yeah, if an unelected CEO can tell a democratically elected government what it can and can't do we're no better than medieval peasants who had to bow and scrape for the nobles' favor
  
  we're no better than medieval peasants who had to bow and scrape for the nobles' favor
  It's been like that for decades(centuries?). The rich do as they please and the rest of us are treated like livestock. It's impressive citizens don't revolt more than they do these days.
  
  Vote with your wallet. If you hate him so much don’t buy anything from him. It’s a fair meritocracy, if you think you can run a better space satellite company you are welcome to try
- Stop trying to tell a private citizen and businessman what he can and can’t do with his own business
  
  He got to where he is with government funding.
  Turn off the tap. Now.
  
  When you have a contract with the federal government it comes with stipulations. Don't "private citizen" this. It's not a mom and pop store.
  
  Where do you draw the line? Should he also be allowed to sell his services to Russia? Should private companies from the US be allowed to sell arms to Russia?
  
  Why? I think capitalism’s a toxic system and he has no moral right to his wealth.
  
  "Citizen" is the critical word here
  
  Exactly, you can't have your cake and eat it - if we want to live in a sane and moral world we shouldn't let private citizens own things that are important, especially not satellite infrastructure

I know it's an anathema to most in the US but the government needs to step up and take Starlink and Space X off Musk for a fair price. He's way too unstable to be trusted with tech that important.
- A fair price would be musk in jail for his crimes.
  
  I was gonna say $3.50, but jail works too.
- The older I get the more socialist I am. Yeah, take it away from his dumb ass, but don't keep it ffs. Make it employee owned. Make every business employee owned.
  
  Make it a Co-op with government oversight and maybe security. Its too stategically important to be allowed market level independence.
- This is how I feel about Starship. Amazing progress is being made and he's going to fuck it all up before it ever has a real mission. It's sad. World's first fully reusable launch vehicle capable of building real shit in space like colonies and infrastructure and it had to be him that did it.
  
  Did he really do it? I'm pretty sure that was the engineers, which Musk is not.
  
  I’m pretty sure someone at Tesla or SpaceX put the Twitter idea in his head so he would fuck off and meddle with something else and let them do their actual work instead of dealing with his stupidity, micromanaging and narcissism.
  
  He borrowed a billion from it to buy Twatter. What happens the next time he needs money?
- I would love a SpaceX without Elon.
  But the thing that made SpaceX what it is now is largely that it is not a government entity.
- Prison, certainly. This is a treasonous act.
- “How am I in this war?” Musk asked Isaacson. “Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes.”
  
  That's a pretty glib way of looking at it.
- Elon can't be trusted with it, but NASA would just stall all progress on it for the next fifty years
  All the downvoters should take a good close look at the cockup that is the SLS program
  
  NASA just contracts everything out. I think NASA would be much different if they had something like SpaceX (and was funded properly).
- It’s his company that he built from the ground up, and the government doesn’t know what to do with stuff like satellites, that is best left to the free market

Any system capable of manipulating the outcomes of international conflict needs to become property of the government via eminent domain...especially if that system is used...especially if used by an entrepreneur operating without oversight.
- Deactivating US military hardware in the middle of a conflict sounds a lot like an act of treason...
  
  From what I understand he didn't deactivate it.. it was already deactivated and he refused to turn it on.
  He had disabled starlink systems over Russian territories - in order to help Ukraine. This included Crimea. Ukraine last year wanted to do a drone-strike on Crimea, so they asked Musk to turn them on. He refused, claiming he was scared of war escalation and that he didn't want to be involved in offensive war operations.
  
  You mean Ukrainian military hardware?
  
  Its not military hardware
- Whose government though? That's the issue with this thinking. As a person who does not live in the US, I'm not sure I want the US to own everything that can be used in war.
  
  It would obviously be the government of the country of origin.
  Starlink was designed, built, and deployed from the United States, by SpaceX (a US company) which is owned by Elon Musk (a US citizen), and launched from US soil. Obviously all that junk and and people are subject to US governance, so when I say this specific stuff should be seized by eminent domain, I mean seized by the US Government.
  Other junk in other countries built by other people of similar magnitude and ability to interfere with global conflicts would be subjected to those other governments. I wouldn't expect the US Government to seize, under eminent domain, foreign owned stuff in other countries.

I mean if a person does anything directly affecting a war (for any side) I'd say that person is a wartime volunteer.
Wartime volunteers that have taken up arms are a absolutely viable target for military strikes.
Just saying 🤷‍♂️
- So the US government is a viable target?
  
  Anyone considering striking US likely realizes the fallout from that strategy though
  
  For a lot of reasons, yes
  
  Always has been
  
  Yes, but go ahead and see what happens

Elon is a Russian bitch just like the rest of the billionaires.

It seems like privatization is working out great for us 👍
- You're completely missing the point. Musk actively took part in the war with this, without any oversight.

If true, my respect for Musk just dropped a .... well, none at all. It would be totally in character.

But the truly galaxy brain move is in this article:
After CNN’s reporting, Musk reversed course, tweeting “the hell with it … we’ll just keep funding Ukraine govt for free.”
Gwynne Shotwell, Musk’s president at SpaceX, was livid at Musk’s reversal, according to Isaacson.
“The Pentagon had a $145 million check ready to hand to me, literally,” Isaacson quotes Shotwell as saying. “Then Elon succumbed to the bullshit on Twitter and to the haters at the Pentagon who leaked the story.”
- Musk confirmed idiot
  
  That has been confirmed many times before this.
  
  but he has money, thus he is extra super smart!
- Eh, he got another 100,000 subscribers out of it.

Make sure to save this for the next time that shitbird or one of his moron suckups tries to say he helped Ukraine. Fucker oughtta be treated the same as any Russian collaborator.
- No, save this when he eventually sneaks in a putin missile somehow.

Muskovite belongs in prison with the other russian war criminals.

Yeah we keep finding out more and more ways this mofo sucks. Somebody needs to strap him to the front of his stupid rocket and launch him into orbit.
- Strap him to a rocket and aim it at a wall
  
  Waste of a good rocket. Strap him in a Tesla and put it on autopilot
  
  But that might damage the wall.
  
  I don't know... I'd like if like to see him reunited with the tesla he shot up there. It'd be kind of poetic.
- Between the drag and the weight it’d be a waste of payload capacity.
  
  So use him as ejection mass to help the propulsion?

From the moment he gutted 80% of twitter staff very soon after a secret meeting with Putin, its all been pretty obvious Musk is a Russian asset. Twitter helped rally international support for Ukraine and he hasnt been subtle in sabotaging it
- Musk is whatever his narcissistic personality wants him to be to get the most attention.
  
  I think the implication is compromat.

Throw that fuck in prison and nationalize all his shit.

“Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes.”
Yes my satellite that is actively being used in a war should be designed only for Netflix and chill.
- Exactly. This rule should have made clear from the start (instead of gifting Ukraine access to Starlink at the beginning of the conflict), not taken back later on - and silently, too, with a high cost for the Ukrainian army.
  Musk / Starlink is absolutely in the wrong here. But since we're seeing Musk stray further and further from grace, is this surprising?

Fuck you, Elon - you festering vomit of a man.

Musk is a war criminal. This is a crime against humanity.
- It's neither of those things. Words have meanings, and legal terms have very specific meanings.
  
  Hey look a rational person.
  
  Spoken like a true ttrpg player.
  
  Legally though, does he still qualify as a piece of shit? Cause he is a piece of shit.
  
  It is neither of those things, but he may be subject to an act of retorsion, which isn't bound by the rule of "proportionate response," from both the government of the US, and the government of Ukraine. I don't expect that to happen, but that's what would happen to any of us doing something like that.
  
  Musk is treasonous war criminal.

He sould absolutely be in prison. He interfered with a military conflict.
- That technically isn't illegal
  
  It isn't legally treason or insurrection. I'm not sure what the legal term would be for what he did, but it does open him up directly for an act of retorsion from either the US or Ukraine, so it is illegal under international law.
  The fun thing about an act of retorsion is that it doesn't have to follow the "proportionate response" rule, so Ukraine can go as nuclear as they want against Musk, and The Hague will support them.
- Lol. Unlike all the countries arming Ukraine? Not saying Musk isn't an asshole, but there has got to be a better charge than that.
  
  He’s not a country, but the countries are.

Wait till yall find out about Henry Ford and the banana companies
- Well, it explains why today's Banana Republicans loves them some Elmo.
- It's a republic goddammit! /s
- If they could read they would be furious

File this under war crimes, charge him, and throw away the key.

So there is an Elon piss-tape kompromat?
- Working theory is the P in P-tape is from pedophile, as in pootin has serious kompromat lorded over drumft. Among other financial leverage.
  Same could easily be true for Elon. Where did the billions in Twitter purchasing money come from? Etc.

That's insane

- If Russia offers parity to Ukraine’s “purchases” of Russian hardware, it could conceivably be in the tens of millions. Benedict Muskard is low on liquid assets.

*Out of loyalty to Putin

Throw him in jail. That's it, an individual has disengaged from America elected leadership to act as an independent agent. Also known as: a spy.
Like is this even a debate? Any citizen that did this would be in a CIA black site hoping they got to see their family again.
- So ungrateful after everything Elon has done for us
  
  Being a troll Musk shill is just as embarassing as being a real one, and everyone else but you can see that.

If he's not careful the US will simply nationalize SpaceX. It's not going to happen in the next couple of years, but this kind of shit will cause it to happen eventually.
- He'd probably love that, gives him more reasons to complain about the left on Twitter.
- The reason Space X had suck an easy start was lack of competition in the launch business.
  Boeing and Lockheed had so fucked up a competition for launch vehicles, the only way to avoid eternal lawsuirlts was to form United Launch Allliance, initially a 50/50 ownership split between the only 2 launch providers.
  The military and alphabet agencies want to buy launches not build big rockets. ICBMs being the exception.
- Maybe in your commie mind. But not in the real world. Not in the US.
  
  We have nationalized utility companies in the past. In fact we even did a satellite data network.

That's why he's a billionaire: no sense of ethics or morality. Dude has outgrown the moral demands of the invisible hand since he's its undeniable winner. So, like...why should he not interfere in war?
- I would reverse it: That's why he has no morals, he's a billionaire. Having social or financial power reduces the brain's capacity for empathy - the rich and powerful become evil.
  Biologically, that's how power works. You can't grow up with money (esp. South African diamond money) without being evil.
  
  I think it was emerald mining, FYI.
  
  It’s absolutely impossible to become a billionaire and have anything resembling a conscience. Some folks get rich and then have an “oh shit” moment (like Bill Gates) but most just continue abusing every mechanism they can to get richer.

No crazy person should be allowed to have this much power. Starlink should be nationalized, and instead of a payout Elon can go to jail for all that market manipulation he's constantly getting away with.
- Nationalised? More like INTERnationalised! Those things aren’t just clogging up the skies over the US, they’re blocking the whole freaking planet.
  
  Lol jesus fuckin christ you lot are ignorant as fuck. You know how big space is? Let me know if you hit a washing machine in the middle of the desert...cause that's space except on a 3d plane.
- I don't think starlink should be nationalized, but i do think the US government should create their own satellite internet system. Creating a satellite network like starlink is relatively easy if you already have the capability to frequently launch satellites into low earth orbit. The physical satellites themselves are relatively simple devices, and the software to make it all operate would take some work but also is relatively easy.
  (Note that when I say "relatively easy" I'm talking about relative to other large hightech undertakings, like for example the James Webb telescope)

Wasn't Ukraine paying for internet usage as well? So it's a breach of contract as well.
- Putin probably paid more.

Smells like a war crime to me
- War-related crime maybe, but I don't think this is against any Geneva Conventions
- “How am I in this war?” Musk asked Isaacson. “Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes.”
  
  Lol, this from the guy that literally turned his satellites off on purpose to influence a war. This guy has poo brain.

This makes Musk a foreign agent by definition, unwitting, semi-witting or otherwise this is textbook foreign agent behavior.

This is a great article on the subject posted recently:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule

Time to nationalize Starlink

Secretly posted on Twitter that he did this because who is going to hold him accountable?

- Custom modifications of the Starlink Kits or Services for military end-uses or military end-users may transform the items into products controlled under U.S. export control laws, specifically the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) (22 C.F.R. §§ 120-130) or the Export Administration Regulations (EAR)
  It's in their EULA....this has been brought up a million times. Starlink cannot be used for military purposes. Without breaking this law... instead of drinking the slim that comes out of CNNs mouth, maybe look a littler deeper on the topic.

What a fucking douche. As usual.
- It goes beyond douche I'm afraid
  
  Absolutely, I’m just tired of committing significant wordage towards him.

JFC - this guy.

“How am I in this war?” Musk asked Isaacson. “Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes.”

I’ll need more info on this. However, if true, it wouldn’t surprise me.

Elon Musk should be 'secretly' stuffed into a tiny cell on a black site and have his wealth redistributed. All secretly and in the name of helping the world, of course.

"Papa puta is happy with muskreek. Papa puta promised not to press death button, muskreek is hero! Why people angry with muskreek papa puta?" - The best model science can build of musk's current thought process

Can't wait to see how many times the ElmoBois will use Worthington's Law to "defend" the Space Karen.
https://inv.tux.pizza/watch?v=aDOXhJ_mSGY

SpaceX / Starlink does work for the USA Pentagon. he isn't against war.
- And people here are thinking that USA is gonna let one rich guy to effect national strategy because he felt like it. I don't know which is worse people believing that these people got government contracts because they are rich or deep state (military industrial complex) letting them do these things just because they are rich. They are forgetting even Elon himself openly stated that his company is under strict surveillance and control because it's seen as a national security matter regarding the rocket technology and he can't even finalize who to employ or share information unless government approved it.

I think I have a new winner for guy who could have been cool but ended up being his own worse enemy.

Well, the USA and EU also attach conditions on delivered weapons - not to be used against targets in Russia. Also, maybe he is afraid of Russians shooting down his satellites, as they threatened to do.

Thank goodness for our titans of industry. Musk saves the planet yet again by averting nuclear war! What will he accomplish next?
- I dunno, but he's probably going to have to buy her a horse just like his last accomplishment.

The totality of evidence for this is "a drone stopped working for a bit". It's just baseless waffle.
- You mean the totality of evidence apart from: