The sequels aren't bad because they're woke (are they woke, though?), they're bad because they're bad.
For example, I think Daisy Ridley played the part very well, and the character fit in the overarching universe. But the plot was awful and predictable.
And somehow Palpatine returned.
EDIT/ADDITION for emphasis: I loved the acting. Especially Finn. I didn't find Kylo Ren to be a believable character, but Adam Driver did a great job regardless. Everyone did a great job with Ep VII, except the writers and Disney execs.
For as schlocky of an adventure the OT and Prequels were, they still drew on real world inspirations. The OT pulls inspiration from WW2 and the Vietnam War as the backdrop, a small rag Tage group of guerilla style freedom fighters fighting off the highly militarized empire with weapons that can destroy entire jungles I mean planets in its path.
The Prequels, for as bad as the dialoge was (because Lucas was surrounded by Yes Men instead of people who actually knew how to cover his weaknesses), was about the decadence of the 80s and the exploitation of the labor of 3rd world countries (see the disparity between Anakin being a slave on Tatooine and Padme being a queen of/senator for Naboo), in phandom menace, which quickly shifted focus to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and how republics, like the Roman Republic, and Weimar Republic became the Roman Empire and Nazi Germany, and how America was following the same path.
And this isn't really some reading between the lines speculation, George Lucas has said that these real world conflicts served as inspiration for the movies. Could it be post hoc rationalization? Yeah it could be, but it's kinda hard to make those justifications even years after the movies have been released.
The sequels just aren't pulling from any relevant sources. It was all nostalgia bait without any substance the first order is literally just Hugo boss wearing good stepping nazis 2.0, aka The Empire Again, the New Republic narratively exists only to be blown up by The Empire 2.0, everything is "Look its just like the Original Trilogy!" and it all lacks a cohesive vision and an actual hero's journey for someone to go through. Like everyone has great setups, a rogue stormtrooper, an ace pilot for the rebellion and a girl who survived childhood gathering scrap from dangerous derelict. And they just all get sidelined for all the nostalgia bait.
No, the writing was just bad.
I strongly prefer strong female leads (and my tastes only get more LGBT when it comes to novels), but those movies were terrible. Just horrendous. I still can't bring myself to watch episode 9, or anything star wars since then
I'm not even that big a star wars fan. I love sci-fi and fantasy, because I love the new ideas they contain - star wars was never special to me, it was just good
I'll never forget leaving the theater after episode 7, my whole department took off to see it on release. I just remember everyone being relatively satisfied, even the extreme star wars nerds, but I just looked at my team lead who I shared an office with. .
We used to talk about Star wars all the time, especially the extended universe, but we looked at each other and I saw pain in his expression, and I knew I shared the same look. I don't think we ever spoke about Star wars again
And after episode 8, I now just feel dread when I see a blaster.
It wasn't that nostalgic for me, it wasn't that my standards were unreachable - they were just bad movies.
The original trilogy was hero's journey stuff, mythology for a modern age. Episode 6 was the weakest, though.
The prequel trilogy was an envisioned world - for all of its writing weaknesses, it felt like a living, breathing universe.
The sequel trilogy was lifeless. 7 was an okay start, and I actually quite enjoyed it despite being derivative, but 8 was muddled trash (how many times did Poe commit mutiny while they were doing the slow-mo chase?) and 9 was dreadfully mediocre.
And this is coming from someone who loves many of the spin-off media on their own merits, many even more than I love the prequel trilogy.
It's not nostalgia. Some of us just genuinely dislike how shit the sequel trilogy was, and how bad they did our boy John Boyega after episode 7.
Star Wars isn't bad because of "woke" inclusivity. It's bad because the people who were supposed to be responsible for carefully curating and engineering both the past and future lore of the universe were at the very best taking a maverick approach to storytelling and at worst actively trying to to sabotage the canon for the sake of their own selfish artistic pursuits.
I don't dislike the nu-trilogy because it makes an effort to include women and minorities in leading roles. I dislike it because it's an incoherent mess of a story that doesn't mesh at all with what came before it, and the only thing holding it together is the veneer of Star Wars, but only the parts that made Star Wars iconic and not necessarily the ones that made Star Wars good.
No I miss old star wars content. Specifically where Luke and Leia make out and where exactly George was going with that shit.
Jokes aside, pronouns is the dumbest possible hill to die on with regards to the starwars universe. OF COURSE gender is going to work differently when you put a bunch of wildly different species together. Gender dimorphism is not some universal rule the rest of the galaxy has to follow. Hell, sexual dimorphism isn't even universal ON EARTH. why the fuck wouldn't you run into a them or xir every now and then? What about those bug people from clone wars? You think bug people are gonna have mommies and daddies or what?
Why does every idiot who is not a Star Wars fan think that repeating the normie stereotype about it is very smart? Which is this pic BTW.
Star Wars since the OT and till around 2006 had very clear borders between, 1, that which doesn't get mentioned, but follows from what's shown, 2, that which doesn't get explained, 3, that which is explained by magic, 4, that which has decent, but very roughly cut sci-fi descriptions and, finally, 5, that which is taken seriously.
Disney doesn't understand how to use any of these categories, especially that core plot points can only belong to #5, that #1 is not just fan imagination, but part of the paradigm, that #2 is not a box for everything lazy, that #3 cannot be center of the plot, and that #4 is still necessary.
I just wanted to see Luke in the role of obi wan or Yoda after decades of Jedi training be a hero and pass on his legacy by training the next generation. But I would have been ok with one heroic lightsaber battle, and a reunion with han, chewy and Leia.
Watching the last Jedi and seeing someone who tossed his blade away because he saw the good in essentially "Space Hitler" try to kill his own nephew because he was having a nightmare so out of character. Then having him overdose on the force and die like a chump, broke me. I left the theater in silence. The last Jedi is also the only star wars movie with out a light saber fight. No blades ever touched.
Watched Episode 7 yesterday.
That was from 2015??? Nearly 10 years ago, which is completely crazy.
Really interesting how it is newer than Episode 3, but uses all of the Episode 4-6 style.
The music sucks, but the visuals are very nice. I love how they made the Lightsabers and Guns so much more realistic.
I remember episode 8 or 9? Where literally every scene was stolen from Clone Wars. That was a bit lame.
Also crazy how their cast is still 80% male. I always wonder if people would be shocked if it was 80% female...
I do miss being younger and happier.
Why do people defending Star Wars keep shitting on sci-fi and fantasy? "It's just a movie about space wizards with laser swords" they say, as though having fantastical elements negates all criticism.
The original trilogy isn't schlock. It's fun, relatively lighthearted adventure in a fantastical setting. It has its flaws, but there is genuine artistry there, and it resonates with people because of that.
And even if I am looking at classic Star Wars through nostalgia goggles, that doesn't invalidate criticism of new Star Wars stuff. Rise of Skywalker is a train wreck of a movie all by itself, no comparison needed.
Bold of you to assume we were ever happier.
Solo had L3-37 who was presented as being a self made individual literally and she was also humanized with her body and movement being less stuffy and robotic and more human. I remember people complaining she was woke.
Maybe it's woke to advocate for someone having equal rights or wanting to be viewed equal to people when the story presents her as someone who is self-aware, capable of emotions, and desires freedom. She certainly uses a lot of terms that I guess people who are worried about wokeness might find off-putting.
BUT, here's the thing most of the time when she says that she wants fair treatment or equal rights it's presented as a joke. Even her losing her body and the ability to freely move and pursue her own goals is treated as something of a happy ending. Remember the whole movie where she said she wants freedom and autonomy and how she's a self made droid? Well now she's shackled inside a computer with no ability to escape, but it's a happy ending because the audience wasn't meant to take her seriously.
So in that the context of Solo the people who were complaining about wokeness were missing the forest through the trees, when the only messaging that could really be considered "woke" was something that was treated as a joke in the movie. I wouldn't be surprised if people complaining about wokeness are just people who are upset if minorities or gay people exist and they use the term to hide behind and avoid outright saying it
(I'm aware that there's more Star Wars than just Solo, but I haven't seen all the new stuff and was mostly using it as an example)
Science fiction is primarily a form of social critique and commentary, according to the Titan, Professor Isaac Asimov.
Coming from a childhood raised in the deeply conservative Southeastern USA, SW felt like a validation of belief in religious magic, patriarchal paternalism, and accessible exceptionalism from hard work.
Before the information age, these ideas were far less clearly false. Now I see the parallel in religion as a toxic dead mythos, misogyny in western culture, and propaganda of a feudal death of democracy.
While I long for the nostalgia of the past, shinning a more modern perspective on that past reveals hideous flaws. The framework is dead to me, but admitting such a reality to myself is to give up a part of my childhood.
Andor is not on the same level as acolyte and it's not even close.
There's just so much shit now it's what you've gotten used to.
That said, yes, the prequels and it had their issues but they're still enjoyable. Acolyte on the other hand is a dumpster fire. I swear it was written by an ai, pretty much every element has been seen in Star wars before if you strip away the names.
I like campy star wars but at least come up with something new
Dodging the question
The goal was to make a Flash Gordon adaptation. So objectively, this is a failure. A very cool one
Eh you can apply this argument to a lot of propertys like why do like lotr it's just fantasy shlop why do you enjoy kill la kill it's just anime shlop why do you enjoy saving private Ryan it's just history shlop the point of good fiction is that it brings you to a different reality but because our reality has rules and logic most people enjoy fantasy that also has rules and logic and it's believable as a alternative reality just because you don't find a fantasy interesting doesn't give you the high ground to call people who enjoy the fiction you don't like
Old Star Wars: Jedi is all about training, discipline, and resist temptations.
Disney's Star Wars: FAT JEDI.
This unrealistic hypothetical includes way too much reasoning attempted with the "woke agenda" guy...
Thrawn though that's some Dad energy shlock
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My theory as a non Star Wars fan (please don’t ban me, your memes are too good!), is that Star Wars was kind of a right time and place kind of thing.
It worked because of the state of things in the late 70s, when things were going in the wrong direction and it was rather obvious which was a new thing in the world.
So Star Wars and the whole struggle with a comically obvious evil side (which what kills it for me as a 90s kid) is a critique of the time.
Well, George Lucas has been gaslighting us about the OT for decades
Imagine your kid watches Return of the Jedi and asks: "Why did they make every ship's computer so primitive when they could apparently do CGI characters back then?" That will make you feel old.
It's Fantasy, not Sci-Fi.
Define woke in this meme cos woke means multiple thibgs to multiple people.
Disney has ruined star wars if that because of a woke agenda or just shit writing it depends on ur definition of woke.
Star Wars was good when kids were playing with their toys.
It's a toy franchise with feature-length advertisements. Always has been.
Both are true
Disney is shit, star wars was never good
Hate the truth however much you want, it'll still be valid tomorrow morning also.
As the saying goes, go woke, go broke. That's law.
I wish one time someone who hates all the newer stuff would give a real reason why and not some lame blanket statement about it. I liked some of the new movies well enough even though I was a adult when they came out. Sure the first three were great when you were a kid. I'm seen that same look though on kids watching the new stuff. The new ones are their star wars.
What a bunch of whiny children.
