1d ago

Sanders and AOC tell packed arena Trump is ‘screwing over’ working class

www.theguardian.com Sanders and AOC tell packed arena Trump is ‘screwing over’ working class

Progressive political stars say president and billionaire Elon Musk are turning US into oligarchy at rally in Arizona

Summary

Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez condemned Donald Trump and Elon Musk at a packed Arizona rally, accusing them of harming working-class Americans and promoting oligarchy.

Sanders denounced corporate CEOs as “major criminals” exploiting workers, while Ocasio-Cortez called for stronger Democratic leadership.

Rallygoers urged Ocasio-Cortez to challenge Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer after he supported a Republican funding bill.

The rally, part of Sanders' “Stop Oligarchy” tour, follows criticism of the Democratic Party’s weak response to Trump’s agenda and features further events in Colorado and Arizona.

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Here's what I'd like someone to explain: suppose we have four (or even eight) years of president AOC.
Everything is going dandy. Palestine is recognized. Student loans are discharged. Maybe we're even on track to get a public option. Etc. We get everything we want.
It seems like it only takes 1 (ONE) election cycle for Dems / Liberals / Progressives to stay home and be like "naaah, I just don't feel it this year...Not gonna vote" to undo everything. Dems have had a slim majority in the house for the last 20 years. SC is one seat away from disaster.
We are only in moth #2 of Orange Fucks presidency and look at all the damage he's done. We're back to square one. Nothing changes. I'm starting to get blackpilled about the whole democratic experiment. Someone give me some perspective please... I just don't trust the American voter any more. The only consistency is Maga will always show up to vote no matter what piece of shit is written on the ballot. Dems / Liberals / Progressives: we need to move mountains to get any political coalitions or clout to achieve anything.
- You're getting blackpilled because your scope of what liberal democracy is is incredibly limited and almost childish. Student loan forgiveness? Recognizing Palestine? Those are useless carrots dangled in front of you that do not materially change the country or even count as policies.
  If you want to lock out authoritarians for another 100 years and have a real democracy you need to think bigger and grow up. Fundamental voting procedures need to be overhauled. The judiciary needs to be completely removed and then reinstated with additional safeguards against partisanship. Return to a gold standard and abolishment of stocks. Yes, the entire stock market. Quite frankly the entire constitution needs an overhaul to a degree where the old one should just be tossed into a fire and the flag changed afterwards to reflect all these changes to the country.
  THAT is what is needed. To remove FUNDAMENTAL and ENDEMIC problems that have been plaguing this republic for 200 years now!
  But instead of thinking about that, you just prefer some free money in the form of debt forgiveness. And that's why Trump won and he and his successor will keep winning for the foreseeable future.
  
  You somehow missed my entire point and managed to focus on the least important aspects of my question. The situations I described were hypotheticals reflecting the best possible world.
  My entire thesis is all it takes for one election cycle for progressives / leftists / liberals to not bother getting off the couch and everything we work for si setback another 100 years. It will take sooo much time to undo what Elon and Trump have done it just the past two months. I don't care about the goddamn student loans. My argument is democracy doesnt work, does it?
  
  They are arguing that a real progressive would try to fix democracy. Overturn citizens United. Get money out of politics. Push for an alternative to first past the post. Remove the electoral college. You do those things and fascism becomes much easier to defend against.
  
  Have you ever heard the saying
  "the flame of democracy requires vigilance"?
  These are all lofty ideals. Overturning citizens united. Getting money out of politics. It seems to me however, as soon as a candidate lacking in charm or popularity shows up, the whole system back tracks because no one wants to vote for a boring candidate.
  I hated Kamala. She was the most establishment dem you could get. You'd think a sassy black woman would have some kind of charisma or anything really. She sounded like a corporate android programmed by Hillary herself. Her policies were boring and uninspiring. She failed her messaging so bad. I still voted but I understand why those who didn't didn't. But if that's all it takes to revert the clock a hundred years then it's over.
  We're fucked.
  Americans had a Trump term already. And they collectively - those who voted and those who didn't said: "sure. Let's do that again. Why not."
  Democracy is dead.
  
  You have way too much politics in the US, your judges, police chiefs, ad's should never have been political.
- Liberals and progressives staying home wouldn't matter if the democratic party appealed to the working class as a whole instead.
  
  Don't forgot gerrymandering and the electoral college. The EC didn't matter this time (barely), but most of the country does want change for the better. Part of the problem is people don't feel their votes matter because of the EC and another is simply voter disenfranchisement.
- We must get rid of gerrymandering and the electoral college. Nothing will ever change until that shit is gone. Until then, rinse and repeat.
  
  voter suppression is the main issue besides gerrymandering, republicans would never have won that many seats, if they dint do this, and heavily propagandized apathy. voter suppression barely occurs red dominated areas. voting machine rigging is almost never addressed either.
  
  Getting rid of the electoral college would be a good first step. It would still be less than 1% of what needs to be done, but a step in the right direction nonetheless.
- Replacing the Citizen’s United court decision with actual law would go a really long way towards keeping corporate money out of politics.
- The boomers will die eventually, and with them, their antiquated ideas.
  The world is now aware billionaires are a huge issue and countries around the world are taking more precautions to prevent what is happening to the USA from happening in their countries.
  Religious fascists will always be an issue, but we can combat that with education, taxing churches, and persecuting people like Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, and Elon Musk.
  That's why they all rallied behind Trump-- they know their days are numbered and the people want their fat heads in the guillotines.
  
  You’re banking on a generation of red-pilled fascists to fix the problem? Social progress is not a guarantee when older generations die out.
  Your “solutions” rely on the Rule of Law and Separation of Powers, both of which were dissolved after Trump v. United States.
  You’re about ten years behind what’s actually happening.
  
  The old boomer's idea of conservatism has already died. Congratulations, you already got what you asked for. It was replaced by a technocracy. Or neo-fascism. Call it whatever you want, but that replacement is thoroughly supported by young people. Zoomers more than millenials.
  Statements like yours incite me quite a bit, because I've used to say the same thing. "Boomers will die out soon and then we get to take over". That was 30 years ago. It got worse, not better.
  
  I hear you, if you think about this:
  Technocrats are a group of people.
  Boomers are an enormous generational cohort.
  A cohort that is really struggling to let go of power and allow their descendants to shape the world.
  Most of them were raised to always put their careers first, so that's all they know how to do-- they don't know how to just smoke a blunt and chill like the cool boomers do.
  Likewise, while I'm undoubtedly one of the cool millennials, the time will come when it will be obvious to me that it is time for us millennials and our antiquated ways to go, and allow the new world to use the resources and the space we will leave behind.
  It's part of the natural cycle of life on this planet.
  So it behooves us to do everything we can so that our descendants are mostly sad that we are gone, instead of deeply relieved we're finally dead.
  
  While you are right I do think that a good number are boomers, there are still young people grasping onto these ideas. I am a millennial and have worked with different people across many age ranges who are very conservative including my age or younger. Unfortunately this hyper conservative movement may not go away anytime soon in my opinion.
  But I do hope that people in America and elsewhere like you said remain aware of the billionaire parasites that feed off the people. My hope is that some day the conservative ideals squeeze and overstep with their followers so much that they finally wake up and choose different ideals. I hope it happens soon and we can change the future of the world
  
  Years ago, I read a scientific journal article about how male elephant aggression increased drastically after the older male elephants (bulls) in the herd were killed by poachers and hunters for their big tusks.
  The article explained that the bulls provided structure for the younger males by basically slapping them over the back of the head whenever the younger males did something not very cash money.
  Not only that, the bulls were also role models for the younger dudes on how to sweet talk the ladies, because after the bulls were killed, the lady elephants were rejecting the younger male elephants because they were huge fucking douches-- even the fucking elephants are dealing with incels.
  All it takes is the removal of safety nets in our communities, and their absence means we are all struggling really hard to work, parent, volunteer, teach, and mentor all these children growing up while being aware their whole childhood that the future looks really bleak for them.
  I think younger generations are angry and depressed, and that's coming out as racism, sexism, transphobia, anti-immigrant rhetoric, etc. They are flocking to Joe Rogan because their only friend at school got into Joe Rogan and well, they don't have other older gentler friends to smack them upside the head with the elephant trunk of wisdom.
  Society has failed them, so they want to change it to what they think would work for them.
  If we take the time to engage with as many young people as we can, and provide hope and guidance, we can better combat the red pilling.
  Many of us do not take the time to coach youth sports, do the big brother/sister program, or volunteer to help at community events for children.
  So when these kids grow up, they don't have a healthy ring of cool adult models to emulate or ask advice from.
  I am proud to say I have many friends 10-20 years younger than me, and I have loved watching and helping to guide them all to grow into compassionate and thoughtful adults.
  And at least one of them started out as a red pill incel, so you have me to think for turning him to the side of compassion, love, and critical thinking.
  You are ALL welcome-- it weren't easy.
  
  It's the 1% vs the working class.
  Not generation vs generation.
  
  The 1% exist because the boomers voted for Reagan and voted for Trump.
  And it's not that boomers are better off dead-- my mama is a boomer, and I love my mama!
  Everyone who knows her does!
  My mama is an indigenous woman who lives on a mountain, probably has negative carbon footprint on this planet because she never wants anything but good company and old-ass movies. She is always out there helping strangers, taking stray dogs to the vet to get spayed, picking up trash, planting flowers, etc.
  She's happy.
  But even she's like "I'm ready to peace out, the world's too complicated for me, most my family is suffering, and all the people I grew up are dead or dying."
  That's not what very powerful boomers like Trump, Netanyahu, Pelosi, Schumer, Mr. Brain-worm-with-measles, etc. are doing, and there's a ton of them that will not step down until death takes them.
  Hopefully we'll all be the wiser from this experience, about prioritizing happiness over control.

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