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Pete Hahnloser @beehaw.org

America must not surrender its Democratic values | Bernie Sanders

There's not a whole hell of a lot that's new here, but it's important to remember that if you're not recognizing the country we've known, colonialist and imperialist as it's been over the years, you're not alone.

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24 comments

  • He'll talk populous and antioligarchy until the election, then ask us to vote for his good friends the oligarchy.

    • You're letting perfect be the enemy of good - you can push for changes while still operating in a society.

      • None of what is available to us is good. I would prefer a Bernie over a Trump anyday sure but someone like Bernie would simply be killed if they tried to affect profits too much. Never let them convince you that electing the better guy is a solution to systemic issues. Things might get marginally better for US citizens with the slightly less bad guy but our elected representatives are beholden to the capitalists, not the other way around. Once that guy is gone it will continue to get worse because the people who have real power are the ones who control the economy.

      • Not sure how anyone sees the highest level ever recorded of homelessness, followed by another record level of homelessness, as good. How 53% of renters can't afford their housing as good. The widest level of income inequality we've ever had as good. Enabling the mass slaughter of Palestinians while ignoring the pleas of its own people as good, then deny there is a genocide occuring. Throwing trans under the bus while embracing war criminals like the Cheneys, blowing Republican dog whistles, and expanding the police state as good. Refusing to listen to voters that the DNC's hand selected candidate wasnt fit for office until the money people said get him out, as good.

        The enemy of good is liberals that refuse to hold their own people accountable.

        • Not sure how anyone sees the highest level ever recorded of homelessness, followed by another record level of homelessness, as good. How 53% of renters can’t afford their housing as good. The widest level of income inequality we’ve ever had as good. Enabling the mass slaughter of Palestinians while ignoring the pleas of its own people as good, then deny there is a genocide occuring. Throwing trans under the bus while embracing war criminals like the Cheneys, blowing Republican dog whistles, and expanding the police state as good. Refusing to listen to voters that the DNC’s hand selected candidate wasnt fit for office until the money people said get him out, as good.

          So in other words, the same criticisms that Sanders makes.

          I don't see you leading raids on US army bases, so don't act like you're out there facilitating the destruction of the US empire on any substantive level if you're eschewing politics. At least Sanders is actually working day in and day out to better conditions for people that the US oppresses, in and out of the US.

          If you're actually just trying to coax people into abandoning democracy on a philosophical level by pointing to the US's captured and neutered democracy, you're no better than the people in power right now who are doing the same thing to their own ends.

        • I mean, I've been homeless for a year and a half. The Gaza situation is horrifying, but I have more pressing concerns. Like getting the fuck out of the country.

    • Really compare the last few Dem/Repub presidents. Carter, Clinton, Obama and Biden aren't really the oligarch supporting corpo fascists people try to portray them as. They used the legal channels, usually got fucked by a hostile congress and had more progressive goals than you're imagining.

      • I can’t hear you taking about progressive goals over all the drone strikes and dead Palestinian children

        • So why weren't we tearing down the government when Bush started bombing Iraqi kids or any of the many other times we did equally fucked up evil shit? Are you thinking Trump and the Republicans are going to do better?

          Liberals die in the "do no wrong" space and fail to unify because of that. What Sanders does is say the things you definitely support and continue to support his party because it is the only vehicle we have for progressives. Conservatives continue to show apathy towards their own people doing shitty things and continue to be a solid voting block because of it, consistently pushing for more and more control.

          So what do we do here? Because democratically the solution is to vote the progressives who are ALWAYS on the Democrat ticket. But progress takes time and we do exactly what you're doing now and destroy our own democracy since we do not see instant results.

          The genocide in Gaza is disgusting but clearly something is going on with these governments showing unity with one another on all the evil shit going on. Meanwhile we're protest voting the only progressive ticket and tearing apart Bernie Sanders instead of uniting and fighting back. Liberals are dying to infighting bro

          • why weren't we tearing down the government when Bush started bombing Iraqi kids or any of the many other times we did equally fucked up evil shit?

            Many of us were, but leftists have to fight both the system and liberals defending it. One of the biggest issues with liberals is they don't want to tear down systems like white supremacy, they want to rework it into something they are comfortable with.

            progress takes time

            In the words of James Baldwin 'how much time do you want for your progress? '

            Democrat incrementalism in reality has been incremental fascism.

            Liberals are dying to infighting bro

            Let the party die

            • I completely disagree.

              You're looking at a bad dog blaming the dog when it is the owners that are the problem. Voter turnout is abysmal, there is no better party coming if people don't turn out to vote. Democrats would be decent if people voted, they don't. This is why we're here.

              • Voter turnout is abysmal because the duopoly doesn't represent our needs. Marginalized are still marginalized, poor are still poor, unhoused are still unhoused regardless which flavor of fascism is in power.

                • Not true at all.

                  There's a ton of reasons you can argue to how we got here, unfortunate economic uncertainties that were unseen, religious zealotry and bigotry, wealth disparity sure.

                  But to see slavery end, get voting rights applied to the population that deserves it, create a system that provides any degree of food and healthcare and shelter when none existed before and you're going to continue to argue that there's only a duopoly? They're not doing a very good job then.

                  The duopoly doesn't exist without poor voter turnout. The poor turnout is a totally different reason.

          • I think you have the wrong comment dog, I didn’t mention any of the 3 Bushes or Trump =b

            • Silly. Gonna throw your hat in the ring then back out and balk when hit with real questions?

              Yeah sit down let Bernie do his job cause he's fuckin trying and you've got nothing

              • Please be a bit more civil than this. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you're free to disagree, but ad hominems are past what is expected on Beehaw.

                I'm disgusted with what's going on as well. We don't improve things by attacking each other personally.

24 comments