NYT Opinion | Donald Trump Is Unfit to Lead

Trump thanks you for your service.

Oh? That's odd, I'm not voting for him either.
- Not voting or voting third party for POTUS does nothing. It's just pure vanity. Do what you want, I'm not really trying to change your mind, but it's a virtually pointless move that doesnt make any sense under the current way we do things.
  
  Not voting or voting third party for POTUS does nothing.
  While that's a popular and oft-repeated opinion, it's heterodox among academic historians.
  "Let a third party once demonstrate that votes are to be made by adopting a certain demand, then one of the other parties can be trusted to absorb it. Ultimately, if the demand has merit, it will probably be translated into law or practice by the major party that has taken it up…The chronic supporter of third party tickets need not worry, therefore, when he is told, as he surely will be told, that he is “throwing away his vote.” [A] glance through American history would seem to indicate that his kind of vote is after all probably he most powerful vote that has ever been cast."
  John D. Hicks, Professor Emeritus of American history at Berkeley
  
  Except we have 2 parties still. How did voting third party in the past solve that problem? Proof is in the pudding.
  
  When one of the two major parties becomes tired of losing elections, they adopt policies from a third party to attract their voters.
  The impact of third parties on American politics extends far beyond their capacity to attract votes. Minor parties, historically, have been a source of important policy innovations. Women’s suffrage, the graduated income tax, and the direct election of senators, to name a few, were all issues that third parties espoused first.
  Rosenstone, Behr and Lazarus
  
  So, it didn't solve the problem? I'm not sure what you're driving at here. I'm not saying there shouldn't be multiple parties, I'm saying the vote during our presidential election, under our current system, is a strategic one, not one to throw away on a third party.
  
  It's solved many problems.
  The point that the American historians quoted above are making is that if you enjoy certain policies, like being able to vote for senators, women's rights, or progressive taxation, thank a third party voter.
  
  Your quote talks about how third parties brought about some changes. At no point did I say third parties have no place in us politics, nor did I say never vote for third parties.
  
  At no point did I say third parties have no place in us politics, nor did I say never vote for third parties.
  Not voting or voting third party for POTUS does nothing. It’s just pure vanity.

I hope you vote for the candidate whom you feel best represents you and the interests you prioritize. I hope your interests and your morals come from a place of clarity that isn't clouded by biased content designed to manipulate you.

Which would be neither party
- It must be nice to be at such a level of privilege that you are able to withstand four years of a GOP government further restricting trans, queer and woman's rights and right to exist.
  
  You mean all the things happening right now?
  Using marginalized communities as human shields to defend shitty politicians is disgusting
  
  Throwing them (including myself) to the wolves is worse.
Thanks. The president's genocide and lies, as well as liberal media's lies and genocide support, has given me moral clarity.
- 🤔 Trump sure won't do that
  
  That's great to hear.
- Doing everything you can to get more lies and more genocide will surely give you the moral high ground you're looking for.
  
  The one positive of a Trump presidency is that liberals will be allowed to come out against the genocide.
  
  Almost time to come back from brunch
  
  "Every one who disagrees with me is getting paid for it."
  Classic projection
- hey lemmy.ml. Go figure.
  
  Hasn't .world banned a bunch of left-wing hosts? Are you proud of that or something?

Throwing your support behind the ‘teen wolf’ are ya?

Nope. No good options.
- You may have done so already but you may want to see if the PSL is on the ballot where you are.
  
  Yeah they're on but if I'm protest voting I'll be doing it in solidarity with Palestinian groups, which I'm assuming will be similar to primaries.
  
  Unfortunately, a protest vote is a vote for Trump in our two party system. And Trump has said he wants Israel to be more aggressive and "end the war". And any Palestinian Americans should fear Project 2025 calls for rounding up anyone they think is an "illegal", or Muslim, or any non-white and wanting to put these people into death camps awaiting deportation. Although many on the right want to just execute everyone.
  Anyways, you can hold your nose and vote for the Dem candidate, or you've voted for the death of those who you are trying to protect and so many more minorities.
  
  Believe it or not, I'm familiar with the most common liberal point of view, but thanks for summarizing. Would you also say this is the most important election of our lives?
  
  How do you rationalize knowing the outcome you'd be voting for, and then staying that course? I understand taking a stand, and wanting change, but voting in a way counter to any of that becoming a possibility doesn't grok for me. Biden is 81 and is nearing the end of his time here on earth, so empowering the guy that is going to encourage more of the same abroad, and also open death camps for non-whites in the US isn't going to signal anything to him or the party.
  
  I rationalize it by listening to Palestinians and their local advocacy groups. Nobody knows better than the victims.
  If they see one candidate as better than another, they'll endorse.
  
  So you think fascism is the answer? You would vote against minorities, in the US and around the world, to somehow save the people that are on the list of those the fascists plan to eliminate? You are voting for the leopard, and telling everyone to just deal with all the face eating? Weird stance, but if you can take a stance against everything you believe in, and believe that is somehow making things "better" more power to you I guess. You've drank your Kool-Aid and are just waiting for the meteor at this point.
  
  I think you're confused, I'm not voting for someone who is carrying out a genocide.
  If you want me to vote for a certain candidate, you should convince that candidate to stop the genocide.
  
  Since I've been able to vote I've experienced 9 'most important elections of our lifetime,' and in the end nothing has improved.
  
  Sometimes it's just about not getting worse. With every win the Right has been erroding people's rights as quickly as they can. They have packed the courts with some of the least qualified and corrupt justices the country has ever seen. They have waged an attack on minorities both directly and through defunding programs and services that help the countries most in need. They have attacked education and turned librarians from a profession nobody thought anything negative of, to one the Right now deems as equivalent to pedophiles (publicly - we know it's all projection for their private actions/feelings on pedophilia). So you may keep hearing the same message, because each election is more important than the last as the Right has been playing this long game of normalizing the erosion the foundation of our Republic. The majority of those in Trump's cult now say they are ok with a King, the very thing this country had fought against and was founded after winning are freedom from.
  
  And voting for the other half of the team that helped get us into this mess isnt the answer. That status quo is just as harmful as republican direct action. The only change has been the entire political structure shifting to the right.
  
  Well, the sad state of US politics is that you have a two party system in place, like it or not. By choosing not to vote, or voting some "protest vote", you are going to help the side that wants to accelerate our decline to the bottom. And once we lose our elections good luck voting for change then. The problem is the Right has been playing a long game that doesn't require morals or empathy, or even human decency. While the rest of the US is a wide swath of people from center-ish (Biden) all the way to are left-ish (AOC/Bernie), and trying to steer people with that wide of viewpoints isn't as easy. Plus we constantly have people trying to both sides everything allowing the Overton window in US politics to be dragged further right with every election. Other than waiting out all these walking corpses running the show, I'm not sure we can get the ship back on course any time soon, but not voting Trump we can at least not sink it.
  
  Biden providing endless weapons and money is allowing Israel to 'end the war.' The marginalized are not afraid of P2025, most have had it their entire lives. So while liberals claimed to have the backs of the marginalized, they demanded a vote for the people keeping them marginalized
  
  So you speak for all marginalized groups and think fascism is something they can just endure so that you can protest vote for a president that has vowed to do the thing you are protesting, only on a larger scale and against the majority of Americans. That is your stance? Don't be surprised when the leopard eats your face!
  
  How are protest votes counted?
  
  Like any other vote, by machine or hand depending on where you live.
  
  I think I'm a bit confused, is there a radio button to fill in on the ballot that says "protest " and then when all votes are counted, we can see a report that says x for dude, y for other dude, and z for protest?
  
  Yes, fairly close to that. 3rd party votes, uncommitted, and no-votes are all tracked, and people studying the (lack of) interest in the candidates take note.