Why can't I just buy it without being charged for preinstalled spyware?
Why can't I just buy it without being charged for preinstalled spyware?
Image description:
Shopping for a laptop as a Linux user:
Screenshot from the Simpsons where Otto is talking to Marge and Homer standing next to a window in their house with a caption "Oh wow, windows!... I don't think I can afford this place."
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I hate that nowadays everything comes with pre-installed spyware and that they charge you for it makes it even worse..
- Want a TV? Suck on our Android TV with Google spyware embedded
- Want a phone? Get our Android with Google spyware, or go for an Apple with Apple spyware
- Want a computer? We'll shove Windows spyware down your throat
Ffs I just want devices that I own to not spy on me, and I can't even buy them anymore..
Each of them require flashing a custom privacy respecting OS onto it,
and that's a real problem..Nice list, I would add routers (not everywhere). But for example here in Germany you get a device from your ISP for free but don't try to change the DNS settings because your ISP wants to know what you are doing online.
Only alternative is a fritzbox which is highly overpriced for a simple router+modem. >200€ for a cablerouter.
I had to buy a used fritzbox, need to nearly hacked them for activating the deactivated bridge-mode and put a cheap Asus router on it with flashed openwrt.
I needed 6 months for the whole setup.
Unless you are using DoH or DoT it does not matter which DNS server you have configured on the modem/router, DNS requests are sent as plain text so your ISP can still see them and will know which sites you are seeing.
OpenWRT with DoH or DoT bypasses that problem, alternatively a VPN with custom DNS. Also a Pihole or Adguard instance never hurt. But at the end of the day someome owns those DNS servers and will likely log your use.
That's exactly my setup. Openwrt + stubby + DoT. Which points to an external AdguardHome + unbound. Wireguard is also used.
You can double nat if you want.
You can't just buy a modem? And modems are really that pricey where you are?. I can get a modem router combo for $150. Maybe $200 if I want to splurge a little bit that meets most of my needs. And then if you're really worried about like linksys OS or something like that, you can just flash DDWRT onto it? I'm not saying the United States service providers are better, but does Germany service providers really make it that complicated to just have your own modem? Because it's a super simple process in America. 6 months just seems insane to set up a router and modem
It takes so long because I wasn't aware for example that my ISP (the only available in my destination) only accepts their own routers or fritzbox. So I had to send back some cheap routers which aren't usable.
Getting knowledge about hidden bridge mode was a time eater too.
Pretty sure AT&T in the US requires the use of their "U-verse" modems with a lot of their internet options. I think comcast locked unlimited data behind using their modem unless you wanted to pay more for the unlimited data than they charge for the modem. I never tried turning on bridge mode on them though, so no clue if that's enabled or not.
No isp in the us can require you to use and rent their modem. I have Comcast unlimited is just another tier like all their other bs. Its not locked to a modem.
But AT&T does or at least did. You can/could put it in bridge mode though and use a secondary one. https://support.eero.com/hc/en-us/articles/207988076-Setting-up-eero-with-AT-T-U-verse https://forums.att.com/conversations/att-internet-equipment/can-i-use-a-different-modem-and-router-to-connect-with-uverse-internet/5df0012dbad5f2f6063a903b https://robotpoweredhome.com/att-modems/
For Comcast, I never said you can't just get unlimited. Just that it cost more than getting the modem with unlimited: https://www.xfinity.com/learn/internet-service/data $25/month for modem+unlimited while its $30/month for unlimited. Cheaper to take the modem even if you don't use it.
The tv thing is the most insane. Like I grew up used to knowing phones are all tapped and computers too. But I pay to not have ads on tv but my tv itself has ads. And I can run a Linux computer and we’re getting somewhere with spyware and ad free phones even if it’s not yet where I need to switch, but tv, fucking hell
It's not even the spyware or ads that piss me off the most about "smart" TVs, it's how they always seem to lag to fucking shit. I've mostly used lower end ones, but even a few mid range ones I've used are still laggy pieces of shit that obviously have the cheapest components imaginable. Which for a normal tv is fine, expected even! But on a "smart" tv where to do anything at all you have to dig through their shitty, counter intuitive "smart" menu, it just sucks.
And then you want to watch some normal tv after a long day and the fuckin thing won't let you because it demands it installs an update, which thanks to those cheap components, takes far longer than it should
It's not only you. A couple years ago I sold and set up brand new display tvs. They were atrocious with how much they lagged out of the box. I stay away from roku for that reason, their TCL roku tvs are the worst for lag, or they were back then at least.
AFAIK, you can flash a de-googled version of Android TV on some devices, look up LineageOS' website.
Unfortunately it's concept which were in the past.Nowdays u are not owning ur device,you are actually just renting it. Unless new laws are passed that will prohibit such a business model.
I do own my devices.
Companies want you to not own the devices, and rent them through a subscription model,
however I refuse to do that.If you do that / fall for that,
then you're part of the problem making such a future a reality..I refuse this too,but i explained current trend and we will not able to do anything about it without law.
If you do that / fall for that, then you’re part of the problem making such a future a reality…
Lots of peoples' buying habits and trust-based attitudes were forged last century.
It'll take a generation or two for new habits to form.In the meanwhile modern businesses will make hay by selling trojan-horses to old school customers , and using the profits to tie-in new users to new services to try to capture/brainwash the next gen into thinking there is no choice.
I think you'll remain in the minority unless 'ignorant' consumers who 'fall for that' can become educated and learn about the options.
Yeah and try to load a custom OS into anything other than an computer is a nightmare, just last week while trying to install twrp recovery and flash a custom ROM which I been doing for quite some while hard bricked my phone, mad ended up fucking it completely by trying to fix it with mtkclient.
I build computers and sell them, and will put whatever OS you want on them, except Windows. If you want windows, I take $150 off the price of the tower.
I'm a developer, modder and privacy advocate, I know how to put a custom OS on my hardware, but I'm a minority.
However the average joe does not,
and they, the majority,
are forced into using spyware.Often without them even knowing so,
which is a true issueYou give a discount if people use windows?
I don't have to install anything, and you're getting a machine with a BIOS, but no OS. I tell my customers up front that I'm not going to put Windows on, though I am looking into the legality of possibly offering Tiny10, but that looks questionable.
I'm not going to charge for work I didn't do.
I had 2 (actully much more) options when buying my laptop. Good laptop with windows or a liitle better laptop without windows for 200€ less.
It's sad when you figure out why most people are broke.
Apple spyware? Cute that you make shit up to justify your victimhood. The vendors that install actual spyware appreciate your ignorance.
Right, Apple is a champion of open source and transparency.
That wasn't the accusation.
There are many who use Apple laptops as Linux laptops.
I don't understand your initial point. He's talking about what you get when you buy a new PC. If you buy an Apple PC, you'll get Apple spyware. It doesn't imply anything about some Apple buyers putting Linux on their PCs
Apple spyware means exactly what to you? You can't just make shit up because you hate Apple. Then on top of that expect someone who is more knowledgeable to accept your ignorance.
When people ask for advice and reject the most common paths that professional take because they cannot get over their own ignorance, they aren't actually asking for advice. They are playing victim and looking for their fellow ignorants to ditto them.
I 100% guarantee you that any Apple product is collecting your data and squeezing as much profit as possible out of it. Why? well, Why not!
Source: trust me bro
The source is common sense, same way I know that they turn off the lights at night.
They can do it, they have the incentive to do it, there is nobody to tell them not to do it
And just because they're open source linux distros are immune to this?
I don't think so, this is not a cultural war, evil will try to penetrate every system.
Of course it will be more difficult in a transparent system
Except it's not. It's great that you understand most companies are positioned this way but Apple is not. I don't expect anyone in a technology forum that cannot understand the nuances.
Paranoia is good but if you choose Google because you falsely believe you have no choice because everyone else is doing it too, then cool.
I am no pied piper and I wouldn't want it any other way. I abhor groupthink and while I will never refrain from pointing out the obvious cases of it, I couldn't care less if anyone listened. People far smarter than I have written on the folly of arguing in these instances.
Same with Windows computers. You make no sense
There are a lot of smart people making sure Apple hardware supports Linux. There is a limited number of variations, the hardware itself has high built quality and Apple pushes support into the Linux community so the hardware can more easily run Linux.
The same cannot be said about any random windows laptop.
As others have noted, if you want a Linux first laptop, there are options.
However this idea that Apple spies on its users has no merit. It's a claim I have only witnessed being made by the witless.
I've been in the internet long enough to know not to expect fools to accept they are fools.
Unlike the morons of the internet, I am always ready to be proven wrong. However, it doesn't look like that's about to happen here.
According to the current class action lawsuit, the privacy settings for the app store do nothing. So consent doesn't matter. Building a digital fingerprint after explicitly saying they don't might be called spying.
https://9to5mac.com/2023/01/09/apple-privacy-tracking-lawsuit/
Have you considered that your approach may contribute to your difficulties dealing with such people? The tone of your messages is extremely aggressive.
No, I'm good. I'm not here to make friends. I'm not even expecting to challenge anyone's techno-religion. At best I would say this is devil advocacy but it's not quite that since it's not about what I believe or do not believe. But it's about what others believe and the display of fervent belief in others intrigue me, especially where it exists in the face of clear unambiguous reality.
For example, Trump supporters fascinate me in this same way. People say being nice is a better approach there as well, but i am not trying to deal with them or change their minds either. In that situation I refer to it as stick poking.
Again, it's the belief that intrigues me. The sociology behind it is understudied.
Educate yourself fruity,
Apple does spy on youYou made the accusation, you back it up. I'm not doing the leg work for you.
Here are a few examples, but if you do some research like I told you to, you'll stumble upon many more:
- Apple ignored/ignores disabling of "Share iPhone Analytics":
https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-privacy-dsid-analytics-personal-data-test-1849807619 - Apple started scanning your local files even if you do not use iCloud / Apple services:
https://sneak.berlin/20230115/macos-scans-your-local-files-now/ - Apple (allegedly) left in a backdoor to iPhones (likely on purpose and in cooperation with government officials):
https://www.kaspersky.com/about/press-releases/2023_kaspersky-discloses-iphone-hardware-feature-vital-in-operation-triangulation-case
only person that cites sources instead of just being a kind of aggressive tool, this post deserves to be at the top fs
Click bait
Click bait
Hardware flaw
None of this is spyware. Not a single piece.
If I cared I could have guessed these were some of the examples you added to your "Apple is bad head cannon" but these still aren't what is being alleged by the original poster, spyware.
At best you can claim Apple is using terms and conditions to add wiggle room but again, not spyware.
I asked if you know what spyware is but I get that it doesn't matter. Your head cannon is unbeatable and it's easier to dismiss me as a no nothing asshole. The crowd has spoke, this technology forum is more interested in groupthink than technology.
What are your sources for debunking mine?
Besides you just not liking to face the truth?Blanket surveillance is not clickbait,
it's spyware, and a problem.But sure continue to stick your head in the sand,
that will surely help humanity beat this problem.For starters:
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In the worst case, this leaks App Store searches. Who cares? You’re already carrying a cellphone which is substantially more intrusive. Your carrier is likely selling your location and demographic data as you speak.
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Zero investigation was done about what this tool does besides just opening a network connection. For all we know, it could be merely be downloading a DB to fix up/normalize EXIF fields.
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Even Kaspersky says it was likely a test/debug feature.
You’re not advocating privacy, you’re advocating pedantry without respect to the larger picture. Do consider your fingerprint and how unique it is (likely) being a Linux user on Firefox with a number of adblocking addons blocking certain types of traffic. You are substantially easier to track despite trying to embrace privacy.
The Linux community is the absolute worst part of using Linux.
Interesting point about non-conventional cookie practices flagging "privacy-first" users as unique to spying parties. I'd imagine this line of thinking harmonizes with the herd mentality, where if you stand outside of the herd you're more likely to be spotted and targeted. Makes you wonder what practices users could engage to actually help combat privacy invasion, and which might backfire
I’d imagine this line of thinking harmonizes with the herd mentality
Yup, exactly! If your fingerprint is 1-in-10 it'd be easy to pick you out. If your fingerprint is 1-in-50,000,000, it'd take far more work.
I think the solution is for privacy protections to be established as a default on platforms used by a lot of people but there's very little incentive for Google to do this, and I don't think Microsoft cares.
For better-or-worse, Apple is the only major (well, double-digit marketshare) platform remotely attempting this right now. Consider their blocking advertising trackers for all users of Mobile Safari. You can't really narrow down Safari users by "those who use privacy protection" and "those who are on vanilla installs".
There aren't enough Linux users to hide amongst so I suppose the next best thing is to get your fingerprint to match a typical user on another widely-used platform. In this example, pretending to be Safari.
Lol, I'm done discussing with you fruity.
You're blatantly ignoring / laughing away evidence to protect the image of a bad, but for some reason, you're favorite spyware slinging company.
And on top of it,
now also bashing the privacy and linux communities since you can't make valid debunkments :PInstead of bashing,
to suck up to that spying company,
perhaps you should try defending your rights to privacy for a change.You may rant in the void now,
I won't waste time on your fanboy nonsense anymore.No, I’m waving away reactionary nonsense.
But keep pretending like you know what you’re doing because you’ve made your competency level clear as day here.
Yet another “privacy advocate” not knowing what they’re doing.
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- Apple ignored/ignores disabling of "Share iPhone Analytics":
Apple's entire schtick is the walled off garden where they can control what you're allowed to do and yes they spy on it
You keep making that claim about spying without attempting to back it up.
You're confusing me with others, just the once, but hey, you're free to lick apple's boots. Fairly common knowledge that just about everything corporation that can include spyware does. You think Apple doesn't track every purchase you make on their platform and utilize that data in reference to your name, phone number, email, geo-location, bundle it altogether and sell to advertisers?
Yes. Free to think it because it's true. Apple doesn't sell their users out, they get their money up front on the hardware....the thing people like you call the Apple Tax.