Elon Musk is responsible for “killing the world’s poorest children,” says Bill Gates
Elon Musk is responsible for “killing the world’s poorest children,” says Bill Gates
Cool story, Bill. Who did you donate to? Why did you cut your philanthropic efforts to fight climate change and disease? Why have you and your buddies fought for minimizing and coopting government for years? Bill isn't innocent in all this, it's just a good time to blame Elon. Don't get me wrong, Elon 100% deserves it, but that doesn't mean that Bill isn't playing the PR game here.
Why did you cut your philanthropic efforts to fight climate change and disease? Why have you and your buddies fought for minimizing
The problem is that billionaires should not exist but come on. $80 billion already donated. $7 Billion more just for Africa. Hundreds of millions in malaria research.
Could he do more? Sure. But attacking someone who is doing a little because he isn't doing more doesn't seem fair.
Years ago Elon said he was disappointed when he met Bill Gates because Gates only wanted to talk about philanthropy and climate.
The problem is that the theft begins by simply becoming a billionaire in the first place. You don't get to be one by playing nice and not exploiting a lot of people and rules along the way. Sure the government could be blamed some for not having enough regulations in place to prevent/stop that, but capitalism ensures that businesses exploit any available loophole possible to maximize profit, otherwise you're a bad business.
While I can respect a lot of those philanthropic efforts, those should not be his decisions alone to make. That money should've been paid into taxes and distributed in agreed upon ways. $7 Billion dollars to Africa is just great, but it could do a lot of help here, too. I have no issues with sending $7B to Africa, but that sure seems like something the people should agree upon first, through some sort of national aid, and not as an effort to spare the conscience of an aging billionaire.
Fuck all billionaires. Every. Last. One. Forever.
The problem is that the theft begins by simply becoming a billionaire in the first place.
That's why that was my first sentence!
The problem is that billionaires should not exist but come on.
Was your first point. I expanded on it by calling out that it is specifically theft and then going further to illustrate that he was using that theft to make personal choices about how that money should be spent, compounding the reasons I find this distasteful.
Forgiving it simply because it's philanthropy plays exactly into their narrative. Don't buy it! Don't defend billionaires to any extent.
theft implies violating laws, which few billionaires explicitly do, because other billionaires made the laws and intentionally provide legal methods to extract wealth from the poor.
while i don't think it should be a moral issue, i think we need to stop trying to make this a fair argument out of some desire to be on some high ground here. what you described is fucked up and we should give them no latitude. it is theft even if they made the laws. the staggering level of difference in energy put forth versus compensation is ridiculous. When someone makes more in an hour than their least paid employee will gross over their entire lifetime...there should be no justification for the billionaire's existence.
While I can respect a lot of those philanthropic efforts, those should not be his decisions alone to make. That money should've been paid into taxes and distributed in agreed upon ways.
As a capitalist, all of his solutions are capitalist. His efforts to slow climate change are primarily technological, with a focus on unproven horseshit like carbon capture rather than proven improvements like better, less car centric urban planning and reducing meat intake. He would never even consider an strategy of economic degrowth to fight climate change even though available evidence shows that that is exactly what we need.
I think we're well past the chance of urban designing our way out of the climate collapse.
We need to make major changes in our consumption to even make a dent, but I say our best shot is cold fusion and carbon capture. Those are obvious longshots.
We've created a runaway greenhouse gas effect. Even if we cut emissions to 0 temperatures will continue to climb.
Obviously cutting emissions to 0 would give us more time to fix this mess though
We need to make major changes in our consumption to even make a dent, but I say our best shot is cold fusion and carbon capture. Those are obvious longshots.
I would argue for extensive rewilding as an alternative
Both are good. I'm not convinced it'll be enough to stop things, but a massive help still
yeah we need every tool at our disposal fs
Still the wrong conversation. Yes he was appropriately villainized for anticompetitive behavior running Microsoft, accumulating excessive wealth at the expense of many others, but come on …..
I have no issues with sending $7B to Africa, but that sure seems like something the people should agree upon first,
Just no. His philanthropy, his wealth. His choice.
But I’m with you on inadequate taxation for the wealthy, and that we have a responsibility as a country to help the less privileged of humanity, and should not just assume someone’s personal largesse.
Not his wealth. That's my point.
It is his wealth. We don't have to like it, but that's how the current system works.
The current system needs to be retired. Wealth and power should not be concentrated to the degree that it is.
The human race is committing suicide needlessly, all because of concepts like "cost" and a system and world order that is out of control.
Well now no US tax money is going to Africa, since people voted for Trump. Most Americans would rather see Africans exploited, starve and die than pay a bit more in taxes.
Gates has history of lawsuits against open source projects. And he actively donates against any real systemic change. For example he has invested heavily in carbon capture technology which is useless to making impact to climate change.
I'm fuzzy on the timeline but wiki says the sco Linux lawsuit was 2003. Gates had already quit being CEO in 2000.
The problem is that billionaires should not exist but come on. $80 billion already donated. $7 Billion more just for Africa. Hundreds of millions in malaria research.
Philanthropists hoarding wealth and resources and then getting to choose which of the poors to allow to have any is actually part of the problem, even if it makes you feel good.
We saw that when Gates leveraged his contributions to force a vaccine that had been developed with public money for the benefit of humankind, to become patent locked and hard for the Third World to access or afford.
Microsoft is perhaps the most complicit tech company in Israel’s illegal apartheid regime and ongoing genocide against 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza. Microsoft’s complicity in Israel’s apartheid and genocide is well documented, exposing its strong ties to the Israeli military, its collaboration with Israeli government ministries, and its involvement in the Israeli prison system, which is notorious for systematic torture and abuse of Palestinians. Microsoft knowingly provides Israel with technology, including artificial intelligence (AI), that is deployed to facilitate grave human rights violations, war crimes, crimes against humanity (including apartheid), as well as genocide. In light of the International Court of Justice’s legally-binding rulings to prevent Israel’s plausible genocide in Gaza, as well as its July 19 Advisory Opinion affirming Israel’s illegal occupation and apartheid system, Microsoft has failed its corporate obligation to prevent genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. Microsoft, as well as its boards of directors and executives, may face criminal liability for this complicity.
Microsoft provides the Israeli military with Azure cloud and AI services that are crucial in empowering and accelerating Israel’s genocidal war on 2.3 million Palestinians in the illegally occupied Gaza Strip. Microsoft’s extensive ties with Israel’s military are revealed in investigations by The Guardian with the Israeli-Palestinian publication +972 Magazine, demonstrating how the Israeli military turned to Microsoft to meet the technological demands of genocide.
The 7 billion to Africa isn't as nice as it first seems either; it's investments into venture capitalist solutions, much more restrictive that aid and the profits are not realized by the locals
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/12/02/perhaps-bill-gates-not-best-expert-hunger-africa
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/11/10/open-letter-bill-gates-food-farming-and-africa
Bill Gates hasn't been CEO of Microsoft in 25 years. He left completely in 2008.
He didn't completely leave, he's literally the technical advisor listed under "key people" for Microsoft
Saytalla seeking advice doesn't mean Gates is making the business decisions.
And claiming Microsoft cloud services are worse than RTX's actual bombs that kill children is a stretch.
And claiming Microsoft cloud services are worse than RTX's actual bombs that kill children is a stretch.
They all kill children and I boycott them all. You're the only one running defense by minimizing Microsoft's role here.
For example, Amazon, Google and Microsoft have all launched major cloud computing centres in Israel, offering businesses infrastructure critical to data-driven products and services. Intel is the largest private employer in the country, having commenced operations in 1974.
Along with hundreds of other multinationals, Microsoft hosts its own research and development (R&D) centre in Israel, and it launched a chip development centre in Haifa. Nvidia, the trillion-dollar chip behemoth powering the AI revolution, has also announced it is expanding its already large R&D operations in Israel. The list goes on
Gates' advice is reportedly treated as gospel, and he also played a crucial role in fostering Microsoft and OpenAI's partnership, and consequently, the success witnessed in the category.
Claiming Gates isn't heavily involved and influential in the business decisions is just straight up untrue, stop whitewashing his contributions to genocide.
In summary, Bill Gates's relationship with Israel is characterized by his admiration for the country's technological innovation and his significant investments through Microsoft and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. While he has not publicly engaged in the political aspects of the Israel/Palestine conflict, his actions and statements suggest a supportive stance toward Israel's role in global technology. This support is evident in his continued investments and public recognition of Israel's achievements in digital security and biotechnology.
They all kill children and I boycott them all.
You know what actually supports Israel? Food imports. You should be boycotting American, Swiss, German and Dutch farm produce. Cut off their food and they can't bomb.
Along with hundreds of other multinationals, Microsoft hosts its own research and development (R&D) centre in Israel,
Any company with an office in Israel? You boycott every large business? EVERY ONE? Apple, AMD, Intel, ARM? They are all in Israel. How are you even replying to this post without uses the CPU's that you claim to boycott?
and he also played a crucial role in fostering Microsoft and OpenAI’s partnership
AI isn't killing children. Israeli leaders are killing children. OpenAI is super charged spell checker. Have you even used it? It fixes the grammar. It helps write software. But so did autocomplete before LLM's.
Claiming Gates isn’t heavily involved
Are you an executive at Microsoft? Because if you aren't YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.
https://www.techspot.com/news/107724-sources-detail-growing-rift-between-sam-altman-satya.html
Directly partnering with and providing services/technology/AI to a state's military, that is in the act of war, is facilitating that war.
Using AI to target strikes/etc., is absolutely AI making the decision to kill. They just chose to let AI do it for them.
They all "directly partner" AMD, Intel, and Arm are all deep in Israeli military.
Using AI to target strikes/etc
Image recognition was around decades before LLM's became the new "AI". Those weapons only function because of the Arm, AMD and Intel CPUs components What hardware is Microsoft cloud running on?
You said you boycott all of them. How are you posting a reply?
You said you boycott all of them. How are you posting a reply?
I am not the same commenter.
Providing goods on the free market is not the same thing as directly partnering. Please enlighten me, does Intel, AMD, and ARM specifically and directly sell/provide their specialized components through another mechanism than the free market to that state/military?
What hardware or software Microsoft chooses to power their infrastructure is their choice. Could the companies that provide this hardware boycott Microsoft? I don't know how effective that would be because you can't choose who buys your products on the free market - you, however, can choose who you directly sell to or contract with.
And I don't care how smart AI and specifically LLMs are. The hardware is irrelevant. AI is still determining the targets (and potentially even firing the shots). This technology and the companies who provide this specialized technology are, at minimum, participating in the slaughter. The AI is proprietary and closed-source, these companies are willingly providing access and working with their military to specialize it for war.
I resist the urge to become a billionaire every day.
I’ve allowed trillions of dollars to continue circulating in the global economy, undisturbed by my whims.
I’m a goddamn philanthropic hero compared to Gates.
And you can tell I’m better than him, cuz I didn’t have to slap my name on a “Foundation For Leaving People The Fuck Alone” to do it.
At least your ego is bigger than a billionaires fortune
Imagine how much extra money the countries of the world would have if they didnt have to pay for microsoft licenses and stuff like dat
It's their fault also, they could have switch to other systems
Yes, but Gates personally has been lobbying leaders all over the world for decades whenever there was any sort of momentum of governments switching to Linux. Sadly politicians are often corrupt or at least easy to manipulate.
Never would have guessed world hunger and disease are because countries spent all their money on Windows licenses, great take
Lmao. Not windows alone, but i think there is a larger point to be made about recurring costs to governments from licenses, patents, monopolies, unrepairability, etc. Military spending is one that that is heavily affected by all of those and famously the world spends trillions on military, so there should be many billions of dollars that can be saved.
Why did Bill fly on Epstein's Lolita Express?
Wrong place for “both sides the same”. Sure, any of us could do more, and billionaires could do a lot more, but you're equating a Nazi cutting entire government programs to aid the most vulnerable here and abroad, with a billionaire who has donated a significant portion of his personal wealth to aid humanity, including eradicating diseases
Nah, I saw a year or two back that Bill was pulling back from his climate and disease philanthropy. I think this is just him jumping on a chance to do some PR by dunking on Musk.
Do you have a source? The only thing I can see is much more recent, and isn't philanthropy, but lobbying.
He's apparently reduced his climate change related lobbying under the new administration... which sounds like a rational response, because this administration is actively hostile to any and all climate change initiatives.
What's the point in donating to lobby for windmills when Don Quixote Cheeto is in charge?
Frankly, I don't. I read something about it a while back, and I remember being really disappointed that he was stepping back from that.
Cool story bro.
There was a recent announcement where he reiterated a goal of giving away 99% of his wealth! Of course you could quibble about his choices of charity and how he built his wealth, but the formerly wealthiest person in the US giving away 99% is a huge deal, and we can not dream of other billionaires following suit.
While Musk isn’t retired yet, how much has he donated to any cause? Yes, Musk deserves this PR dunk
Musk deserves a lot more than just a PR dunk, but I'm still not entirely convinced that it's just a cynical PR play. Hopefully Bill will prove me wrong.
What purpose does he need PR work done?
Well, a few things:
Gates was always widely reviled. He didn’t build a vast fortune drowning competitors and locking customers into frustrating experiences by being a Boy Scout.
Maybe you dismiss his actions in retirement as an attempt to resurrect his reputation, but it’s succeeded. Compare to other billionaires. Did he keep building wealth until he died? No. Did he focus on establishing a dynasty or wealthy chain of heirs? No. Did he buy his way into politics? No. Did he only donate to one place? No. Did his foundation fade away into obscurity and irrelevance? No. Did he donate to the most popular causes among billionaires? No. Now try to find a billionaire who has done as much good for as many people. From anywhere in history
It’s easy to find fault in anyone, but this is the wrong windmill to tilt at.
Surprised I had to scroll so long for this article. This is probably the best example (recent history too) of Bill's actions killing kids.
I'm still glad he called Elon out. Let them fight.
This isn't Bill's action, it's Bill's inaction. As per those articles, all he did was not support the waiver of patents, which ultimately wasn't his decision anyway? He claimed that it would not significantly change production, or at least not quickly enough to matter.
It still seems shitty, but comparing to Elon? Who is actively cutting off the flow of medication that has already been manufactured and paid for - to dying children?
Allowing tuberculosis patients to lapse partway through treatment, thereby allowing drug resistant TB to skyrocket in impoverished communities and by extension the entite world?
Effectively guaranteeing a death sentence for infected children, who will experience a relapse of a horrifying but completely curable disease? Children who will not be able to afford the diagnostics and treatments for a second round because they are orders of magnitude more expensive for drug-resistant TB?
This isn't Bill's action, it's Bill's inaction.
If you had read the article, you would know that he very actively pressured Oxford not to open license the vaccine, leveraging his $750 million donation to the university for vaccine research.
Really? Show me where.
It claims that he bragged about doing so, and links to another article.
But that other article doesn't support that claim with any evidence that he pressured them to keep their patent, that he bragged about it, or had any say in the final decision.
We went to Oxford and said, Hey, you’re doing brilliant work,” Bill Gates told reporters on June 3, a transcript shows. “But … you really need to team up.” The comments were first reported by Bloomberg.
AstraZeneca, one of the U.K.’s two major pharma companies, may have demanded an exclusive license in return for doing a deal, said Ken Shadlen, a professor at the London School of Economics and an authority on pharma patents—a theory supported by comments from CEO Soriot.
"We simply don’t know what’s in these deals,” he said. “The biopharma industry is applying old rules of commercial confidentiality in a situation that is unprecedented.”
Really? Show me where.
It claims that he bragged about doing so
The sentence after where it says that... You have ctrl f. Use it.
that other article doesn't support that claim with any evidence that he pressured them to keep their patent, that he bragged about it, or had any say in the final decision.
Not sure what "evidence" you want... Bill Gates said it was true himself and did multiple interviews talking about it which are not hard to find. Every article I can find online says the same story - that Oxford initially planned to open license the vaccine and then Gates pressured them to change course.
It doesn't quote him, though. It just links to an article. Of which I provided the only seemingly relevant quotes.
Does "we told them... you really need to team up." count as bragging?
That's the only relevant quote I can see, and it amounts to him getting them to partner with AstraZeneca. It's hard to tell if the chicken comes before the egg - does AstraZeneca insist on patents, or does he?
Was it the only way to get a massive pharmaceutical partner like AstraZeneca to agree to a deal with Oxford? Or was it something he personally wanted?
Either way would appear the same - if he was directly involved in the deal, he'd be obligated to publically support it, patent restrictions and all.
The article is intentionally disingenous, as well. It claims:
Oxford sold the sole right of production to AstraZeneca, with no guarantee of low prices and an extraordinary opportunity for profit
Even though as you can see from - again - the same article it linked to before:
After Oxford announced the exclusive AstraZeneca deal, the company said it would sell vaccines at no profit—but only during the pandemic.
Which is - admittedly, temporarily - low prices and an extraordinarily reduced opportunity for profit. Especially given how significantly vaccination rate fell over time.
And:
Under its deal with AstraZeneca, Oxford will receive no royalties during the pandemic
There's no such thing as a good billionaire, but there is such a thing as worse billionaires. It seems like Bill Gates spent $750 million to fund vaccine development - including 1.5 million that happened to go to pre-pandemic funding of the decade-old research that made the mRNA technology even possible - and over a billion dollars on support for the WHO.
It also seems like he encouraged Oxford to partner with a giant pharmaeceutical company. This lead to them deciding not to open-source their vaccine.
It is a terrible thing to do, but it is also tough to say if they could have ever managed the immediately required production without a giant pharmaceutical partner like AstraZeneca. The first months of mass vaccination were by far the most critical.
Compared to Musk? Who took medication that was already manufactured, already bought and paid for, already in warehouses and ships and planes ready to help impoverished communities?
Who bought an election and leveraged that to suddenly and illegally cut off international aid out of spite and greed, allowing drug-resistant TB to flourish?
Who has the most money out of fucking all of them and doesn't spend a dime for anyone but himself?
That's the worst billionaire.
I agree. The difference between the two is stark.
Cool story, Soup. Who did you donate to?
Oh no, millions of human lives saved by "tax evasion", let me clutch my pearls closer
Nobody, but I voted for Harris. Last I saw, Gates was cutting back on donating to his foundation that fights infectious diseases in the developing world.
So you're just whingeing online about someone who plans to spend 99% of their wealth on saving millions of lives, while you've done fuck-all.
Let me stop what I'm doing so I can clap for you and your moral high ground.
Oh no, not my ego!
Mmm yes. This is why I Lemmy. This article had so many bots praising him on Reddit. Refreshing to hear something other than boot licking