Elden Ring's developers know most players use guides, but still try to cater to those who go in blind: 'If they can't do it, then there's some room for improvement on our behalf'

I think the main issue is NPC quests, they are complete nonsense and fail automatically based on arbitrary triggers.

Most players use guides to play that game?

Is that common these days?

It doesn't seem very fun.

This is absolutely my biggest complaint with Elden ring. You either use a guide or play the game 100 times trying to figure everything out. There are times where the dude literally tells you he's going to be in a specific area and then he literally isn't anywhere close to where he says he's gonna be. It's my first souls game and it was pretty frustrating for me.

Haven't played Elden Ring, but I hate when games establish some way to play in the tutorial and when you watch some guides they first tell you to ignore what the game taught you.

Star Wars Squadrons was such an offender. Star Craft kind of is because singleplayer balancing is different from multiplayer. Can't think of more now but I have a feeling like that's the case with many games.

So, great that Elden Ring wants to tackle that. Ideally a game should teach you the ideal way to play.

I'm starting a new character for the dlc and i have to say they did improve the quests compared to the launch version. They added a lot of markers on the map to make them easier to follow.

Don't blame them after the obscure parts of Dark Souls in the console era where people had no idea how to catch a ride with the Giant Crow back to the undead asylum, and trade items via Snuggly at the bird's nest. Just one of many examples.

Many players would say he failed on that with some of the NPC side quests already. The only one I thought was weird to follow using just what the game tells me was Millicent's, and specifically the final part of the quest. You have to kill a thing in a specific location that isn't really obvious, and then you have to reload the area again for a summon sign to appear (which even when you know where it is can be hard to see where it is). If not for that (or if there was some kind of fucking clue in the room or dialogue from the previous segment) I wouldn't have needed to use the wiki or a guide for any of them. As far as his games go, ER is the best in this regard, IMO.

FromSoft... how the fuck am I supposed to know that I'm supposed to go to a single random point of grace and pick a dialogue option to talk to a doll... not once... but MULTIPLE TIMES in a row while nothing happens before the quest finally progresses.

Seriously it's the bizarrely obscure stuff like this, or expecting that after every single boss I'll just randomly wander the entire world and talk to everyone just in case they moved or have something new to say. Drives me up the wall. I like that FromSoft is okay with you missing content so they shut up and get out of the way but some of these quests are cryptic as hell.

Shockingly great attitude for a game studio at a time when so many games are shipped buggy as hell and unfinished

Disclaimer: I did read it.

Is it just most players of these games that use guides or like all games? If it’s all games, I find that fascinating.

I absolutely hate needing to look anything up, and I get super upset with myself when I don’t think of the convoluted solution or discover the hidden quest on my own. I shouldn’t, sure, but always have. Since getting stuck in the vine forest in illusions of Gaia on SNES (think of the korok forest in breath of the wild, or the woods to Canada in the South Park games -wrong turn reset), and needing my older sister, who didn’t game, to navigate it for me, I’ve always wanted to solve it myself.

I mean I look stuff up if I really get stuck, or if I’m not sure the game has “missable” stuff (which I absolutely hate, because I’m not gunna play a game through again in most cases to make different choices; too many games I haven’t played for that to be desirable), but I hate doing it and don’t internally understand why you’d want to, I suppose.

Like I’m not judging anyone who does, those guides totally exist for a reason.. I just have never understood the print guide or super detailed walkthrough thing, because it’s the opposite of how I like games. I always wondered who they were made for.

I ran up that dragons wing but didn't see the room with the ladder just the drop behind the wing, I had to check a guide for that one after a couple days

Absolutely based behavior

I hope From continues to make quests that require the player to explore and use their brain, and even do some pretty convoluted steps to activate some quests. Missable content is perfectly fine because I get another try to discover that content the next time I play.

I am so tired of games having quest markers and unmissable content forced upon me.

I think they're attacking this problem from the wrong angle.

Part of what makes the release of FromSoftware games such an event is working alongside a community. You discover an item location, and tell your friend; or someone online is having a really tough time on a boss, and you share your strategy. These moments are a key part of playing the game on release IMO, and they kinda require some information to be cryptic/difficult or else the community won't bother.

The biggest issue IMO is that none of this community stuff really happens in game. There's the message system, which mostly gets ruined because of trolls, and you can kinda get info from phantoms of other players, but the bulk of the information exchange happens on Discord, Youtube, and Reddit.

"I only play games that don't hold my hand."

*Uses guides

Pathetic.