some people on this platform

Something tells me Karl Marx wouldn't like these things either.
- vaushites pulling shit out of their ass instance 9001

These westerners are social democrats which is not hard to understand, it's wiki entry away.
- It’s infuriating considering that it’s in the first goddamn sentence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
  Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership.
  If those libs could read they’d be very upset.
  
  Words mean what they're used to mean. Even the word "government" is wildly different between Europe and the US. We flip out over headlines like the government of Belgium has collapsed! and it's only as much of a kerfuffle as the House trying to elect a Speaker.

- Wow. I would love to here from the mods how my comment was breaking the rules of a memes community.
- What's wrong with the DPRK? The only source that life there is terrible are defector's testimonies, which contradict each other on a daily basis and where the worst, most emotional stories are rewarded with fame and money. Often it's the only way to make ends meats for them. If you come to the south from the north you are a nobody.
  Furthermore, the DPRK has never threatened anyone. They have a 100% literacy rate (literally on the CIA website) and every citizen is guaranteed free healthcare, free education and a place to live. They use all of their arible land for food production but because of the sanctions and their mountainous terrain sometimes they have scarcities, but no one is starving. Their constitution is full of human and political rights and social gurantees.
  And to proof that I don't shill for any country calling itself socialist, I don't like China at all (while still thinking that they are at least better for the world than the US).
  And of course there are things to criticize the DPRK for, like the lack of LGBT rights and their weapons exports and hackergroups. But considering the sanctions (that even China upholds) they are in very dier need of foreign currency.
  I would also encourage everybody to study the history of Korea.
  
  The only source that life there is terrible are defector's testimonies, which contradict each other on a daily basis and where the worst, most emotional stories are rewarded with fame and money.
  There are other sources.
  For example:
  
  Their average height is much lower than people from South Korea. The most likely cause is malnutrition. When malnutrition affects even the military, your civilians aren't doing well.
  If you're looking for sources, there are plenty of links should you search for "north korean vs south korean height". The difference is pretty dramatic for 75 years of isolation.
  
  thank you, comrade!
  one thing i might add is the fact that most if not all of the propagated lies about the dprk are projection. sexual slavery was a thing the american occupation forces engaged in massively and south korean dictator pak chong-hui was killed during a dinner party with a underage concubine present. later, haircut policing was a thing in the south during the 1980s under chon tu-hwan. the most prominent korean defector, pak yon-mi is a white supremacist btw.
  i believe that the whole hacking thing is massively exaggerated by western media as part of their whole "the enemy is both weak and strong"-strategy. it is both a way to engineer further fear mongering against korea, as well as to mask their own incompetence. but even if im wrong and they are indeed from the dprk, i still find them quite based and funny tbh.
  do you happen to have any resources on the lgbt situation within the county? i would love to educate myself on the topic.
  i also slightly disagree with you on china. they never seized being a socialist state, but have sadly become revisionist since deng. that doesnt make them any less worthy of critical support though.

Man im pretty socialist who lives in ex east germany with my parents actually being parz of that time and i gotta tell you, with what i hear from them, it was horrible
- "Throughout Eastern Europe and the former USSR, many people grudgingly admitted that conditions were better under communism (New York Times, 3/30/95). Pro-capitalist Angela Stent, of George- town University, allows that "most people are worse off than they were under Communism . . . . The quality of life has deteriorated with the spread of crime and the disappearance of the social safety net" (New York Times, 12/20/93). An East German steelworker is quoted as saying "I do not know if there is a future for me, and I'm not too hopeful. The fact is, I lived better under Communism" (New York Times, 3/3/91). An elderly Polish woman, reduced to one Red Cross meal a day: "I´m not Red but I have to say life for poor people was better before .... Now things are good for businessmen but not for us poor" (New York Times, 3/17/91). One East German woman commented that the West German womens movement was only beginning to fight for "what we already had here... We took it for granted because of the socialist system. Now we realize what we [lost]" (Los Angeles Times, 8/6/91)." Michael Parenti - "Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism".
  
  See also:
  A new book by Kristen Ghodsee, an anthropologist at the University of Pennsylvania, argues that women have better sex under socialism.
  If that sounds strange to you, consider this: A survey of East and West Germans after reunification in 1990 found that Eastern women (the socialist side of Germany during the Cold War) had twice as many orgasms as Western women.
  What in the world accounts for such a wide gap?
  According to Ghodsee, it’s about social safety nets. If, she argues, you build a society that supports women and doesn’t punish them for having children or devalue their labor, it turns out they’ll be happier and have better sex.
  But it doesn't matter how many studies or surveys or policy differences you point to -- some guy always has an old relative whose story outweighs everything.
  
  What exactly are these quotes supposed to prove? This was what, a few months or a few years after reunification? Any social change that large is going to cause some turbulence. And of course Parenti has an agenda, so he wouldn't include someone lauding their new experience.
- ahhh yes... horrible as in:
  guaranteed housing and employment
  a non-discriminatory education system
  0% unemployment
  low taxes
  an actually functional railway network
  a highly developed health care system that didn't discriminate on basis of class
  guaranteed childcare
  womens rights way more advanced than in western germany at the time
  and most importantly no fascists in government
  and no, i dont wanna say that there were no deficiencies, but it is rather obvious to me that it was quite the opposite of "horrible"!
  also, what the hell do you mean by "pretty socialist"?
  
  Ah yes the oh so good DDR with exciting features such as
  no freedom of movement
  constant shortage of any goods
  being a dictatorship
  (contrary to your first point) a housing shortage
  a culture so dictated by work that people had little to no free time
  political pressure
  control over the media
  the fucking stasi
  And what i mean by pretty socialist is: everyone gets equal opportunities no matter what race, religion, gender, political views, etc. I want that chad - who just lost all his belongings - has the same chance to live a fulfilled live as elon musk has. I abhorr the fact that there are billionaire's or even just millionaire's while other people have to choose between paying rent or eating, and those people not even being in the worst situation compared to others.
  I want almost, but not completely, communism
  
  My family escaped to West Germany shortly after the war. They escaped starvation and joblessness. You are wrong.
  
  ... would you be happy in prison, on the basis that there's food and housing and you can take correspondence courses?
  and most importantly no fascists in government
  Like it matters what color the Secret Police's armbands are. But hey, your kids will be taken care of! Even if... something happens to you.

- I fear I gotta move to a different instance. I'm also a lefty but gawd damn I will never try to justify the stuff some dudes on this instance do.
  
  There’s a spectre haunting Sailing7
  
  Same
- your point?
  
  Его поинт в том что социализм это не только исковерканный марксистско-ленинистский брэйн рот жёстко социально репрессивных стран как бест корея, полно и анархистов и соц демократов которые так же зовут себя социалистами но они не будут симпить за Ким Чин Ина, лол

Ah right, we are in the meme community. Carry on.

- I would caution you about socialism being a way to get to communism.
  Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, the founders of communist ideology, believed democratic socialism was a sham and true communism could only be achieved through a violent overthrow of the bourgeois.
  The complex restructuring you mentioned is why they thought a transition from socialism to communism would not work.
  Source: https://www.stephenhicks.org/2013/02/18/marxs-philosophy-and-the-necessity-of-violent-politics/
  
  You're conflating the terms "socialism" and "democratic socialism".

I just hate murderous regimes that murder millions of their own people
FTFY
- Average imperial core Cold Warrior understander.
  
  The US is included in my list too with the Native American genocide for what its worth lol. But people tend to forget that Soviet Russia and Communist China killed millions of their own people. They should not be praised or imitated. We should learn from the horrible mistakes of the past.

... And? A lot of socialists are also libertarian in equal measure.
- libertarian "socialists" are a deeply idealist tendency that didnt manage to get anything done ever. the only thing they do is criticize actually existing socialist projects, mostly using state department talking points. the concept of critical support is unknown to them and the only revolutions they like are the ones that fail. they are puppets in the hands of the cia.
  
  It's not very enlightened to call entire movements like libertarian socialism (AKA anarchism) just idealist, ineffectual, and to imply they're essentially brainwashed by the US government.
  Anti-state movements have a history as long and storied as socialism, and theoretical frameworks for their beliefs far more complex than you give them credit for.
  
  Anarchist Spain and the Makhnovhscina as short lived as they were were closer to even Marxist communism than any of those authoritarian shitholes

Is it so much to ask that workers councils be in charge instead of some revolutionary
- The history of socialist movements shows that it is. Rosa Luxemburg was right over a hundred years ago.
- Apparently so!

"Those countries reflect poorly on socialism."
"How dare you, they're not really socialist."

I kinda suspect ты из Калининграда
- виновен

The healthcare system is just fraud anyway just finish the job and make it for everyone not the ultra rich.

There's no contradiction there.
- lemmy.world

You know, I thought that, with Lemmy being less popular than Reddit, there would be less political propaganda messaging on here
But it seems I'm mistaken
- Lemmy is less popular and therefore more niche, meaning you'll get smaller communities with stronger opinions, and therefore way more political extremism
- what do you mean? the lack of cia talking points here is really refreshing imho. on reddit everything is drowned in a sea of "communism bad"-bots.
- Uh, your ideas about where you'd find socialism are a bit backwards
  
  I said nothing about socialism
  I said "political propaganda messaging", of which i find annoying even if they support my political views
- This is not propaganda what do you mean? It's literally citing socialist states
  Btw Lemmy is communist, created by Dessalines, first instance is literally lemmy.ml for Marxism-Leninism
- It's only like two guys that have been doing this for the last week, and I have no idea what their game is. Lemmy doesn't have enough people for the propaganda to make a meaningful difference, even if everyone did buy into it. Are they stupid?

- Capitalism first
- yeah, lets just all believe in absolutely nothing and let the status quo continue. i hope you are happy being exploited by capitalists day in day out.