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Downvoted not because it isn't true, but because they aren't automatically mutually exclusive and because it is an unnecessary jab at half of the human species. Why are we paying attention to divisive bullshit instead of focusing on things that actually have the potential to help?
What will help?
Purely personal speculation here, I haven't done any hard reading on the subject:
I suspect we need a two-pronged approach. There's two issues here. The first one, and by far and away the most important one to address, is the simple fact that women are being assaulted a lot. I don't think that fact is in question among rational people. The way we've been attempting to fix this so far is to tell men to not rape women. It should be pretty obvious that tactic has a very limited potential to help. Anyone willing to listen to women saying to not rape them, isn't generally interested in raping women in the first place. We need different methods to reach people who either aren't interested in listening, or who don't think what they're doing is "bad". This will require a lot of work and research, but the first step is acknowledging that the current efforts are not helping.
The second issue is the amplification of toxic mindsets among women. Like I said, this is absolutely not as big a problem, but it is a problem, and it's one we haven't been allowed to talk about for fear of being labeled misogynistic. Women say "not all men" as if it's a joke, but it's actually a REALLY IMPORTANT TRUE STATEMENT. Men wanting to not be discriminated against should not be the butt of a joke. Sexism is not okay, even in response to sexism. We need to clamp down on that and make it clear that such language is not acceptable.
The phrase "women's safety is more important than men's feelings" is just as disingenuous as calling the anti-abortion movement the "pro-life" movement. Because it's not about women's safety, everyone here agrees that women's safety is important. This whole discussion is about women's perception of safety: women's feelings.
When you say "women's safety is more important than men's feelings"
What you mean is "women's feelings is more important than men's feelings"
And that's not cool. That's sexism.
It's also sexist to call all men rapists. Women rape as well.
Purely personal speculation here, I haven't done any hard reading on the subject:
When you say "women's safety is more important than men's feelings"
What you mean is "women's feelings is more important than men's feelings"
Well say no more!
Oo! Oo! Are we doing reductionism??
We need different methods to reach people who either aren't interested in listening, or who don't think what they're doing is "bad". This will require a lot of work and research, but the first step is acknowledging that the current efforts are not helping.
Let's say more about this!!
k
Also, wtf, downvoting the guy asking for solutions? Explain yourself, lemmy
Sees question mark
Uh oh. Sorry dude. Downvoted for using the forbidden punctuation. Them's tha rules...
In reality, it's not attacking half the human species. It's actually attacking people who perpetrate SA, and other people who cheerlead for them. One problem is that many men react just the way you reacted. Instead of saying "let's solve this problem", you say "quit being so divisive". Unfortunately, those are your values.
"I realized men are evil, masculinity is toxic, these are statements of truth and the only ones who deny this shit are cis men themselves." - CheesyCheese1 This thread
☝️ Top comment when i got here. This issue brings out as many misandrists as it does misogynists.
Even my gf who wasn't aware of this meme picked the bear vs a random man when i asked her, so obviously there is a problem. But in reality i don't give a shit if some rando woman would prefer a bear over me in the woods, whatever makes her feel safer i guess. I do care about being tarred with the rape brush though, and this topic is being used to attack all men rather than just the problem ones.
I support sexual assualt because I think associating all men with sexual assault is divisive? Eat shit and die.
Because the solution to women getting assaulted is to make men think about their actions. The post wasn't anymore divisive than the average black twitter meme. It was a simple tongue in cheek piece about how women have the impossible task of figuring out if a man is going to be their life partner or their rapist & murderer.
"Hey, would you rather be alone with a bear or a man?"
"A bear. And you should think about what you've done." "... Huh? "to make men think about their actions
Do you not understand that, as a very straight man, I've never once even thought about hurting a woman?
It's absolutely divisive. Stop.
But have you thought about challenging a man who does?
Ah yes, let me open myself up to physical violence because I'm a man and that's my place in the world.
Shut the fuck up
Are you aware that you get to make that choice and that women don't?
Are you aware that, as a man, I still have the right to protect myself?
God, go fuck yourself you troglodyte.
I’ve never once even thought about hurting a woman?
then you'd know it's not about you. I don't think women want to potentially be mauled to death by the bear, it's simply preferable to the horrible shit men do to women with astonishing regularity. kidnapped and raped to death, or kidnapped and raped for decades.
do you need links, to show how unfortunately regular this kind of thing is? because they'll turn your fucking stomach. just because you're ignorant about how often it happens doesn't mean you should take it personally when women make a logical choice. they're safer with the bear. You've never thought about hurting a woman, that's great, but it doesn't do shit for the women who have had this shit done to them by men for the history of the species.
It’s absolutely divisive. Stop.
oooOoh poor boy, it hurts your feelings huh? get over yourself.
Is vague with their wording, immediately backpedals to "I dOn'T mEaN aLl MeN"
Shut up
there's some real delusional entitlement going on here. one for all the supposedly 'good guys' who feel blamed for rapists - I don't rape women but would never begrudge their need to defend themselves. telling women they need to take literal risks for the sake of 'not hurting the good guys' feelings' seems kinda fucking gross.
I don't get why any man would jump to defend the chuds, unless they feel pointed out as a chud.
then you'd know it's not about you.
It absolutely is. You are saying no man, myself included, is safe. That no matter what good we might do individually, we will always be viewed as monsters. Can you not see why men find that hurtful?
It absolutely is. You are saying no man, myself included, is safe. That no matter what good we might do individually, we will always be viewed as monsters. Can you not see why men find that hurtful?
look mate if you want to self identify as a rapist / creep, be my guest. if you want to identify that way and then wonder why people find it creepy, well, I don't have the crayons.
If you think women assume all men are rapists, you're wrong. if you think women assume some men are rapist creeps, that would be EXTREMELY RATIONAL. Now, compare those two categories with the number of times a woman has had to worry about being raped by a bear.
Come on, you can do it. Count on your toes if you need to. There we go: it's none.
So some, vs. None.
Now work it out.
I’m not self identifying as anything. You are saying woman should be more scared of me or any other man. And bears may not rape, but they do other damage.
You are saying woman should be more scared of me or any other man
I mean... the historical record is replete with horrible shit men do to women:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_violence_against_women
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Incidents_of_violence_against_girls
https://www.nativehope.org/missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women-mmiw
https://people.com/crime/gallery-elizabeth-smart-jaycee-dugard-kidnapping-survivors/
https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-serial-killers-of-women/ranker-crime
https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvv.pdf
so you figure it out for yourself mate, I have neither the time nor crayons.
The historical record is also replete with horrible shit men have done to other men. Doesn't mean I will cower in fear if I meet a random man, nor would I rather encounter a dangerous wild animal.
Imo this doesn't impact the men who would do such a thing in the slightest. You're just making the ones who have empathy feel bad, those who would rape are just getting their egos stoked by this fad: "Look at me, I'm more dangerous than a bear! That means I'm badass"
The problem is a large portion of rape is not done by serial rapists who rapes every chance they get, it's done by average dudes once or twice when an opportunity arrives. Most rape cases involve someone known to the victim.
Rape culture (as awkward and taboo of a phrase as it as) is a real thing that this bear analogy is pointing to. You may not have anything to examine in yourself that is the result of that culture but a metric fuck-ton of men do have internalized rape cultural aspects that need to be examined and extracted. The fact that so many women picked the bear is a testament to how pervasive that culture is, at least in their eyes.
The point isn't to stoke the egos of the serial rapists with no empathy, it's to use empathy to make the "average-Joe" rapist examine his internal biases before they turn into an actual rape.