Couples race to move frozen embryos out of Alabama after court defines them as children
Couples race to move frozen embryos out of Alabama after court defines them as children
I guess soon, when you break-up with someone, the state might charge you with killing the idea of the children you might have had.
Alabama top selling item on Amazon right now:
Dodson! We’ve got Dodson here.
Nobody cares. Nice hat.
Newman!
Nuh uh uh you didn’t day the magic word!
Dennis Nedry!
Thanks for a good laugh in these dark times.
Isn't it illegal to transport a child to commit a crime? Human trafficking? Kidnapping? What a can of worms. I feel like there's too much money in fertility treatments for SCOTUS to let this stand.
Well since they don't have birth certificates I guess they're undocumented people and that would be bad mmkay.
Embryo camps. Spotlights, very small dogs. We'll get every last one.
Just send them on a bus to sanctuary cities! Checkmate... Oh, wait, that gives them what they want. We've been Uno reverse carded!
This is a travesty. These people are engaging in blatant and obvious child trafficking
Won't be long until Alabama considers miscarriage to be murder. Wait...that actually is already a thing:
I'm surprised the Alabama legal system isn't more comfortable with miscarriages. They seem to have had a lot recently
When she arrived at hospital seeking treatment, Poolaw admitted to using illicit drugs while pregnant.
So the 'crime' is of causing the death of the foetus through illegal drug use.
It's not conclusive that the cause was drug use. And that really should not matter anyway. It was a miscarriage.
But wait... that means they can claim them as dependents right?
One would think.
"Yes, I see on your tax forms that you have claimed 1034 dependents, which means that the state actually owes YOU. Here is your big bag of money sir."
Well considering most people who have them are wealthy, it would fit right in with Republicans wanting to give tax breaks to the rich.
The real question is child support.
Oh man, get the state to pay for the storage costs for your embryos. That'll put and end to this silly shit STAT.
Tinder in certain states will put up an alert, warning you that if female, by proceeding with the date, you may be liable to carry a child to term, and if male, will need to pre-deposit child support in an escrow account.
That's why you don't have sex until you can get a vasectomy
Ooh I like the child support pre-deposit idea. Sounds ominously like taking responsibility for the child you might conceive from your pleasure.
The onion almost got me again.
Wait..
COUPLE ATTEMPTS TO SMUGGLE CHILDREN ACROSS STATE LINES
More at ten
Massive child trafficking ring brought down in Alabama. Governor to receive medal for outstanding achievement in law enforcement as 700 arrests are performed statewide.
I'm not messing with that soft paywall. Are they saying that parents who let their frozen embryos go bad in the freezer are guilty of murder or manslaughter?
That's one interpretation. The judge used religious logic in his ruling.
Fucking Christian whackos
The judge used
religious logicreligion in his ruling.
Ain't no logic to be found there.
to be fair, the (wrongful death*) lawsuit was because the hospital or wherever they were being stored at let the frozen embryos die off. It's entirely reasonable to expect some kind of... protection... considering the reason for those to have been stored was so they might be able to have kids, etc.
*wrongful death is a bit much, mind you. But how far do you want to take the "guy beats a pregnant woman to kill the baby" types of charges? ultimately, I suspect, the issue here is that the religious nutjobs lack nuance. they see the world as black-and-white and can't fathom a possibility where there were damages in this matter, but it wasn't a "wrongful death" scenario.
I don’t see how this isn’t prima facie evidence of a first amendment violation (presuming that the courts or state legislatures are bound by “Congress” being synonymous with “Government” as I believe it’s been interpreted)
Pretty sure personal beliefs which haven't been proven should make the ruling invalid. He's judge, not king.
If I were in Alabama I'd race to move out of Alabama
I don't live in Alabama and I am moving out of Alabama just in case
If those embryos count as children, wouldn't it be OK to ask for all kinds of legal benefits for them?
It’s the most effective way to challenge the law. Just carry it through to its natural conclusion.
"Wow I suddenly have 11 kids to care for. I can't afford to live. Better apply for snap and tanf."
Lol, you think there are any social programs left after these chucklefucks are through.
if a woman has a period and has had sex, there is a good chance a fertilized egg was probably somewhere around the blood, making every woman in Alabama who has had sex a possible serial killer
I think you're a little confused about the normal reproductive cycle.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implantation_(embryology)#Implantation_failure
Reproduction in humans is not very efficient. Only around 30% of natural conceptions result in successful pregnancies. Of the failed pregnancies around 85% are due to implantation failure.
Seems like it's extremely normal for a fertilized egg to fail to implant and be flushed out during your next period.
what do i have wrong
Mate, are you just so confused with what is happening with the responses here? I've literally had an abortion; I'm pro choice. But there's this random pile on of I'm assuming men, telling us what idiots we are.
Think of the potential tax wind fall these people could have! I'd knuckle shuffle up some "kids" and rake in the tax money.
Unfortunately they made embryos children for the purposes of punishments, but let the bill die that would have made them dependents on taxes.
What if we treat that bill as a person, too?
Take it to court! They either have to decide this law is shit, or it forces the state to pay for them.
Well they cant be half children. Theyre either kids or not, Id claim them all and if they audit it, then it FORCES the government to involve themselves and set a precedent. If it's a life, its certainly dependent on the clinic, claim them. Also if they're truly considered lives, they are inherently entitled to all the rights the US offers living humans. A state tax bill can't negate that, only dropping the clasification of being a living being can.
Sounds like human trafficking to me!
If a couple who has a frozen embryo divorces, who pays child support and for how long?
What about visitation rights? Alabama has a lot of explaining to do. 🤗🤡
By that logic, women are committing murder every time they menstruate.
Maybe I missed something because the article is behind a paywall.
Edit: ok, as pointed out, I don’t know how these things work. I apologize, and accept all the downvotes and jabs you can give.
By that logic, women are committing murder every time they menstruate.
An unfertilized egg is not the same thing as an embryo.
Well… their religion has a virgin birth so maybe that’s where their confusion comes from.
Fertilized eggs get flushed all the time when they fail to implant. One step closer to making sex illegal. Fucking idiots....
By that logic, women are committing murder every time they menstruate.
Don't give them ideas.
They'd be happy to lock up all women in camps.
ok, as pointed out, I don’t know how these things work.
He speaks on behalf of the whole Internet
I apologize
Oh, my bad.
Shouldn't they do that with actual children as well? Just to be safe?
Children are only important until they are born. After that's happened they can work down the mines for all they care.
I figured that their parents might care a wee bit.
Isn't classifying a gamete, but only the female gamete (egg/ovum), and not the male gamete (sperm), of being "children" and has personhood rights, a form of sexist law. I know the Land of freedom is no rookie in taking away freedoms of the marginalized, almost the norm, but now they are taking away male gametes from being recognised as persons. Imagine in one ejaculation in Alabama and having a murder count similar to Stalin or Hitler. The court will show it was premeditated because the person bypassed state restrictions pulling out during copulation, the accused thus commited mass murder. This goes against Genesis 38 and it's Devine condemnation of coitus interruptus. Even the egg was unfertilized thus another death of a person was committed by the accused pullout game
Not trying to defend the ruling, but it's not eggs, it's embryos
Your argument holds no weight against a group of people (the current republican supporters) who have repeatedly proven to be misogynistic assholes who gladly vote for a rapist.
Cruelty is the point of their actions, not the side-effect - pointing out to them that their actions are unjust has no effect when that was their goal from the start.
My argument was not meant to hold weight, it was absurdist in its meaning by taking their arguments to the extreme and show its shortcomings. Trying to convince religious zealots that their religious reasonings is wrong is just going to make them double down and commit even more. That is why I make fun of their logic through comedy and hope even though I might not reach them I might put a smile on other open minded people.
Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great!
If a sperm gets wasted, god get quite irate
Although- does that mean that ovulation is murder? Or, at the very least, manslaughter?
coitus interruptus
Lol nice
Hooray! You can't win! The Republicans' favorite kind of game!
I haven't read Alabama's ruling, but if those embryos are legally children, then yes. Fortunately the destination state and the federal government do not agree, so you won't have to worry about it unless you live in Alabama.
I’d be taking my fetusicles and getting the hell out of dodge too, if I were in their shoes.
Cue the Duke boys flying thru the air
Crygotes don't wear shoes
Dafuq going on ova der?
Probably time to remind everybody the Judiciary branch can't actually enforce its rulings. If they're going to go full on religious crazy we can just start ignoring them.
Sure you can. It's not like the DA's office and police are in lock-step with them or anything right?
Law gets enforced if power finds it useful to enforce. Ignoring it is not an option, for people actually in danger of having the law enforced against them.
And that, kids, is why Andrew Jackson is on the 20 dollar bill.
Yeah, but you go ahead and ignore first. I'll see what happens
Anyone that's taken by surprise by this never lived in Alabama anyway.
Anybody else clicked on this because the thumbnail looked like a picture of a cheez-it and you were curious what cheez-its have to do with alabama & embryos?
Triscuit to me.
Looked like raw hamburger meat to me.
im going to eat one
Isn't the fact that the parents are in Alabama the more relevant than where the egg is. If there is a record of who owns the egg on the premises of an Alabama provider wherein it may be seized by the Alabama authorities it may be used to demand of the provider or parents an accounting of the disposition of the egg. If it has been destroyed and the information regarding its destruction is available to the provider in state (which would be normal) they can still be charged. Inability to account for it is suspicious in itself and parents could be held in contempt and forced to disclose.
soft pay walled
This is an absolute tragedy but is also very much a leopards ate my face moment.
Do not feel sorry for these people, though. People who can afford these treatments are wealthy and they certainly voted for the sort of politicians that would create this state supreme court.
Currently holding my newborn as I type this. Up until a few months ago, this little human being was a frozen embryo.
Both of my children were IVF babies, and I'm about as left leaning as they come.
Also, we're not wealthy by any stretch. We ended up participating in a clinical trial that provided free IVF therapy (minus some misc costs).
I absolutely feel sorry for our fellow American citizens who are going through this horror, regardless of their political affiliation. Politicians are dealing in lives and livelihoods as if we average citizens mean nothing to them (spoiler alert, we don't).
You should look into expanding your worldview.
I should? I'm complaining about how people in a state voted in people who would do something as horrid and cruel as this is and I should expand my worldview? Maybe, just maybe, it is possible to look at the accomplishments of a group and judge them based on that. All of this "you should feel sorry for people in Texas" nonsense falls into this same category. Yes, I can feel sorry for individuals who are victim of these sorts of atrocities while still believing that Texas is a shithole state that shouldn't exist. Alabama is no different.
Further, you take exception with my comment on wealth while admitting that you didn't pay for it yourself. Seems pretty disingenuous.
That's quite the stretch to assume all of these people are conservatives.
Of course not all are but it's fucking Alabama, the right armpit of the gulf coast.
Yeah IVF isn't cheap and it isn't covered buy regular health insurance so its all out of pocket.
My insurance covers it