Windows 10 end of life could prompt torrent of e-waste as 240 million devices set for scrapheap

If only you could put linux on them so they get security updates and give those to poor kids. Shame that is not possible. /s
- It's not possible. I need software that runs only on windows, so as much as I'd like to I can never switch. The only thing I can do is maybe do a vm passthrough thing - except I don't want to spend a couple of grand on a new pc. People have jobs, real jobs, we have to work instead of fucking around distro hopping. A whole bunch of people could possibly switch to linux, but it's still such a major pain in the ass that nobody will do it unless they are forced into it. Expect hacked win 11 installs
  
  While I agree with you that some software isn't capable of running on Linux (even through wine), there is another aspect that's important to remember. Want and choice. The software that doesnt run on Linux is developed only for Windows because of market share. If more people used Linux, and more importantly, demanded Linux support, more software would support it. I WANT to use Linux instead of windows, so in order for that to become a reality, I push companies to support it and I talk to people and encourage trying Linux out. Can everyone make the switch? No, but some can; and the more that do the more Linux will be supported.
  Your voice and opinion and choice matters. Don't let a big corporation steal that from you. Even if you want to use Windows, you should still have the choice.
  
  The "give those to poor kids" part was such a foreign concept you failed to even acknowledge the words existence. wow.
  
  So,
  you're called an exception, not a rule. Just because YOU need windows doesn't mean literally no one would have have use for ewaste revived through Linux.
  I run programs made exclusively for windows on Linux using wine daily. And
  maybe you like to fuck around distro hopping when you use Linux, the rest of us just fucking use our computers like a normal person. (See, I can be condescending too).
  
  Wine works pretty well for a large percentage of Windows programs
  
  give those to poor kids
  People have jobs, real jobs, we have to work
  If you are a kid forced to have a job, blink twice and CPS will be dispatched (hopefully).
  
  Ok I'll bite. What's the software you "need"?

- How the narrative has turned Nvidias active sabotage into Linux maintainers fault is beyond me.
  Latest for their reluctance to act on scalpers it should be transparent what you're getting into with Nvidia.
  And then people like you write thing like this... Why?!
- Both Intel and AMD GPUs work fine on Linux. Both work fine with Wayland.
  Wayland has been around for over a decade and has been in a usable state for the last 3 or so years.
  Attributing the fact that Nvidia stuff still barely works to the fact that some distros have made Wayland the default is just stupid wrong.
  Besides, Nvidia experience isn't/wasn't the smoothest even on Xorg. Linux desktop is simply not a priority for Nvidia.
  
  Nvidia on wayland really isn't that bad nowadays. Hell I would say that it's pretty good even
- "most" desktops are used in business and other organizations, not by gamers, and it is these customers and their systems that will be the bulk of the e-waste generated by the forced-obsolescence of their hardware due to 10's EOL and 11's 'new' requirements.
- Linux is only a problem for folks used to someone else. Also, the article is about ewaste. Meaning, these machines are going to be trashed unless someone puts linux on them. So I'd say your diatribe of misinformation was misplaced.
- I think you're massively over-generalizing here to make Linux look like an unstable mess. Rolling release distros are the ones that want you to read the patch notes. Arch is the poster child for those. Stable distros like Mint and Ubuntu and elementaryOS don't brick your system with every update. They hold back updates and stick with older kernels to ensure stability. Linux is, already, very good. It sounds like you haven't used it for any length of time. Valve's work on Proton has made Linux gaming viable for a whole lot of people, but the majority of computer users don't play intense video games. They want web browsing, email, office software, that kind of thing. Linux does those just great on almost any device all the way down to Raspberry Pi boards.
- I have to agree with this. I tried Linux a couple of months ago, and ran into those issues with Nvidia. My computer was reasonably stable in the desktop environment using a particular version of the drivers, so as long as I was happy to never update the drivers and never do anything but email, web browsing, and word processing, Linux would have been fine. If I wanted to play any games or do any digital art or anything else that required my graphics card, it was either unstable or running barely faster than continental drift, depending on which set of drivers I was using.
  Like, I do think Linux is pretty cool, but it very much feels like a project for people who have the time and money to continuously tinker with their computer to get it working exactly as they want. It's not there yet on the "it just works no matter what you do" front, which is what the vast majority of computer users need from their operating system. Windows, for all its many faults, is broadly stable and can largely be ignored once it's installed - although I do think it benefits from a reformat every 12-18 months.
  
  I think Linux blows windows out of the water as a server operating system. I've been using it that way for over 25 years now.
  For desktop, there's a few problems. First is that the average user cannot install an operating system. So unless it comes pre-installed they're going to be out of luck. The second is that I've not found a distro that won't occasionally just blow itself up on an upgrade. Driver issues, circular dependencies, and all manner of other things that a normal user just doesn't know how to deal with.
  Then you get to gaming. Which is WAY WAY better all the time. But, knowing what works and what doesn't, which drivers to use, the best distro that has most of the gaming stuff already sorted for you. Not to mention the Wayland + NVidia issues that people are also talking about here. Also, I've never proven it. But on FPS games it feels like there's just a bit more latency on linux (albeit I think overall most games run smoother on linux).
  I think Desktop is still great on Linux. But for mass consumption, it still has a way to go and I do wonder if, while windows exists and is preinstalled on everything if it will ever be more than a niche thing. Most users don't know there's an alternative and for sure would have no clue how to go about installing it.
  
  And if your machine was to be tossed in the trash otherwise, how well do the proprietary drivers operate in the dump?
- Wait, I'm allowed to dis Wayland here!?
- things have generally been going good in this section of the thread, but just a general reminder to all participants that thoughtful comments with some time put into them (as a few of the replies to this comment have been) are going to lead to more constructive discourse than quick, impulsive ones. you're also definitely not obliged to respond to everything you disagree with or anyone who replies to you, so keep that in mind
- I maintain a Linux server at work which has our ERP on it (I wouldn't say I'm great at it but know the basics). I use Linux at home for a few projects and things like routers, etc. My daily PC at home is Windows. I like Linux but the issues I've had in the past, while they can be resolved, generally take up more time that I'm willing to put in. I don't want a hobby just to keep my PC working.
  
  Because you were not just looking at the web and email, the issues are not relevant. Most folks are not setting up a load balancer or adding an extra NIC. Your protestations are invalid anyway as the article is about ewaste, and not personal choice given all options. These devices are what they are. So given the circumstances, it is put linux on them or they are trash.
- It is so obivious that you have never used linux... or you have only tried vanilla arch or something

A lot of Congolese children died in humiliating and painful ways for that e-waste. Now many more will suffer and die. The good news is that Microsoft executives are probably getting a great bonus out of it for their stellar leadership and business acumen.

Since all the."but you can disable this", "just switch to Linux that" posts are already going strong, I'd like to remind everyone that many, many of those devices will be from businesses and are on some sort of leasing agreement. Since.the business needs to safeguard itself against IT fault related costs, they will not circumvent TPM, not because there would be anything wrong with doing that, but because they do not want to provide a target for insurers and lawsuits when they use their PCs in "an unsupported configuration". Businesses see their PCs very differently than private ppl do and "just switch to Linux" will be so much more expensive that they will not do that. They'll just get delivered new stuff from their leasing partner and that'll be that.
- In all honesty. Most business laptops will have recent TPM anyway. Simply because if you give employees laptops you damn well want bitlocker on them. Where I work they're changed every 2 years anyway. People lose laptops. It's just a fact of life and you want some protection for the data on there.
  Desktops, not so sure. For home users, there are of course very simple tools to make customised Win 11 boot USBs removing the fake requirements. But I'd say that the majority of users still couldn't install an operating system at all. So if windows cannot upgrade itself, they'll sit on unsupported win 10 or have to buy a new one.
  If you can install windows, you can install the customised one I'd wager. The skill level is about the same.
- TPM performing the lock in they failed with thus far.

- It is only frustrating for folks used to a different os.

Someone should open a business taking free perfectly good laptops people were going to throw out, putting Linux on them, and reselling them.
Goodwill could do this with anything they get donated.
- I've seen this done. Store lasted for a bout a year, which is longer than I would have expected given the obsolete e-waste they were selling for extortionate prices. This was only a few years ago, but most of the laptops they were offering still had 4:3 displays and disc drives, that's how ancient they were. Hell, one of them had a floppy drive.
  
  That’s wild. There’s a place here in Melbourne that sells refurbished Dell Optiplex’s. They’re ~8yrs old and still perfectly functional machines. For $100 you can get a full setup with a 16:9 monitor, keyboard and mouse. If you’re on unemployment they’ll sell it to you for $50 so you can look for work online.
- Free Geek here in Portland OR used to do this. Might still be doing it too, but I haven't been back there since 2018 so I'm not 100% sure.
  But yeah, the last I was there, you could walk in and just buy a refurbished laptop or desktop with Linux on it. They would even give guidance on what people needed if they weren't tech-savvy.
- The I.T. firm I run does this except we donate them to nonprofits.

When I read the title I was like "How would you torrent ewaste?" I'm going back to sleep.

Linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux. linux.
- Which distro?
  
  +1 for Mint, +1 for Ubuntu
  
  ALL OF THEM.
  
  Linux
  
  I hear Mint is great if you want something simpler.
  
  I've been really enjoying PopOS lately. All my Steam games have run perfectly on it with no mucking around.
  
  Debian.
  Windows 10 has a 32bit version, Debian is one of the few distros that still support 32bit, so to stay safe... Debian.

Why would 240 million devices be scrapped? Just install Windows 11 or Linux on them. If you have a PC built in the last 6 years, you can probably run an OEM version of 11 if your settings in 10 is saying you don't qualify.
This post just highlights just how woefully technologically unsavvy the average person is.
- Windows 11 actually won't run on all of them due to inconsiderate and arbitrary system requirements... but otherwise yes.
  
  Windows 11 officially requires Secure Boot and TPM 2.0, but can easily be run with just TPM 1.2, and with some effort even without TPM. All the other system requirement increases (like single to dual core, 2 to 4 GB RAM, etc.) don't really play a role for any recently built PC anyway.
- In the case of business's, liability reasons, real and imagined, mostly prevent just "switching" OS's freely.
  In the case of home users, think of how many people you know that have a windows computer. Now how many of those people can you confidently say could install ANY OS, let alone handle setting up Linux or bypassing TPM requirements for W11?
  Personally, out of the hundreds of people I know with a windows computer, I can count on my fingers how many I'm confident in being able to install an OS. Most people are really not tech savvy. They will just ride it out with no security patches until it becomes Jenn's laptop from the IT Crowd, and then they'll chuck it in the garbage.
- Windows 11 is adware and spyware wrapped in a thin OS veneer. I will never upgrade, end of support or no.
  
  And this is why I refuse to touch anything but Windows Pro, stable channel.
  Yes, it costs extra, and it comes with some ads, and I don't get the "honor" of beta testing the latest bells and whistles for a month or two, and laptop vendors still put their crapware on it... but once I disable all the nasty stuff, it stays disabled.
- Windows 11 needs Secure Boot and/or TPM workarounds, and while Linux is better than it used to be, but it still hates peripherals. Only 5% of Americans work in the tech industry. Fry cooks and forklift operators often lack the education needed to find these workarounds, and are too busy and tired making ends meet to seek out that education.
  In the modern corporate environment, most companies would rather replace their machines wholesale than risk unplanned downtime due to unforeseen glitches. They apply the principles of preventative maintenance to IT.
  I like Linux (Mint is good stuff), and I believe in what it stands for. But the human desire for simplicity, reliability, and familiarity should never be construed as a lack of virtue.
- I have a PC I built a year and a half ago and apparently it "doesn't meet the requirements" for windows 11...
  Ryzen 5 5600x and a 3060 TI.
  
  The cpu should support windows 11. Have you enabled fTPM in the bios?
  
  That sounds like a solvable issue for me. The upgrade health check tells you exactly what prevents you from upgrading.
  My system gets flagged as not applicable as wellndue to secire boot not being active. I could resolve it by enabling it, but since I still have an old MBT Id need to switch that aswell. Which I procastinate, as I won't get nagged to upgrade to win11
  I never completely reset everything in the last few years, although I upgraded some components and did some Windows reset. The MBR never was part of it...

Fucking M$ being M$
- What?
  Minimum system requirements for installing Windows 11 on a PC mean users must have a processor of at least 1 GHz or faster along with a minimum of 4GB RAM. Storage requirements are also set to a minimum of 64G
  Like you can’t exactly blame MS for people still using old arse components.
  Likewise if people wanted they could keep using windows 10 or switch to a Linux distro to keep the machines running.
  
  You also need a pc that has TPM 2.0 enabled. My 3yr old PC doesn't have that enabled by default and I'm not even sure what that is or if the motherboard supports it (nor do I care, it's keeping Microsoft from forcefully upgrading me to windows 11).
  
  I have a old gaming laptop that is not supported.
  Intel i7-7820HK, 4cores 8 threads 2.9Ghz.
  Released in 2017.
  That's not old-arse as far as I'm concerned, and I don't see the need for an upgrade. I'm going to install Linux on this PC because I have the know-how and desire to check out how electron fares. But I can see how that is not an option for everyone.
  
  CPU's 6 years and older are not supported. That isn't old. I was using a 6 year old CPU perfectly happily until this year.
  I also don't have a TPM module so I am still unsupported anyway.
  
  What is "old arse" to you might be blazing fast and great for someone else (potentially in a less fortunate area of this world), and besides that, no matter your or my sensobilities, if it works, it works and should be kept that way as long as it has a purpose and the hardware permits it.
  
  The issue is TPM, and nothing else.
  
  I think it's mainly businesses and not users who will keep using it without support.
  As for the other I switched to Linux, but I can't seem to keep it running. I currently have no computer until I get another distro onto a bootable USB. Fortunately my /home partition seems fine but my root partition broke. It would start in recovery mode but not otherwise. Tried fixing it and now it's broke worse.
  I'm a very technical person. Expecting people to move to Linux because they don't want or have TPM2.0 is not going to work.
  
  the basic requirements (compute power, ram, storage) to install windows hasn't really changed at all since like vista or 7. dual core and 4gb ram were common even back at vista's launch (and earlier, even. many late xp systems shipped with those specs).
  due to bloat these older systems (like dual core windsor am2/dual core wolfdale lga775) fall flat with 10; but swap their original mechanical hdd for sata ssd and feed 'em at least 4gb ram and they run 10 as well as 7 or 8.

Microsoft promised Win 10 to be the last version and failed
- it was a false/inaccurate quote, afaik, but my thinking after hearing it was..
  yea, last one we'll buy, everything after will be a subscription.
  might be 'postponed' a few versions (my guess is whatever's after 12), but i'm certain that's still microsoft's end goal: subscriptions and only subscriptions.
  
  At the 2015 Ignite conference, Microsoft employee Jerry Nixon stated that Windows 10 would be the "last version of Windows", a statement reflecting the company's intent to apply the software as a service business model to Windows, with new versions and updates to be released over an indefinite period
  Doesn’t seem like a false quote
- They're plan to move everyone onto a subscription plan by locking everyone in failed.

I don’t think it’s fair to jump on Microsoft for this one. Windows 10 has been out for almost 10 years. Apple gives less support for systems than 10 years, they are closer to 8, which is still a while.
If you bought a PC in 2018 or later it should support tpm in the CPU, if it doesn’t it’s on Dell or HP or whomever made the system. If you built a pc you can buy a TPM for most motherboards.
Microsoft said you can pay for updates for windows 10 if you want. If your parents core i5-2700 with 4gb of ram from 2012 will no longer get free updates… that seems fair… or go to Linux, but we know most people won’t. Honestly it would be a great time for a “convert to chromeOS installer”
- I don’t think it’s fair to jump on Microsoft for this one. Windows 10 has been out for almost 10 years. Apple gives less support for systems than 10 years, they are closer to 8, which is still a while.
  it is absolutely fair to blame Microsoft, because they promised their customers, device manufacturers, and even businesses that Windows 10 was going to be their last OS, and flipped that switch out of nowhere when they realized they could be making more money.
  Windows 12 supposedly going to be subscription based I feel like is a great example.
- I think that it's absolutely fair to jump on Microsoft for this.
  There is nothing wrong with this hardware. RAM and CPU clock speed plateaued a long time ago. The overwhelming majority of these systems being thrown away would run Linux flawlessly.
  Microsoft has never given a damn about security before. These new security "features" do more to lock people in than they do to keep them safe.
  
  This. It is so sad that these companies get to set arbitrary expiration dates on perfectly good hardware for "security" features nobody asked for. They keep getting away with planned obsolesence and monopolistic moves, by fearmongering about security. Even if the "solutions" does nothing to secure the users. The only thing they care about securing is their profit.
- I think the point of contention is that Windows 10 works fine, there is no need to move to Windows 11 except that Microsoft has found new ways to monetise the OS through its data, so they are making Windows 10 end of life
  
  Exactly. I use 10 at home and at work and have no issues with either. There's no technical reason for anyone to upgrade.

Ms should continue security patches are get fined for the e-waste they will cause.

Ammm corporations, which are the tits that milks Microsoft shit, are still using windows 10 and will not go to 11