2y ago

Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x04 "Among the Lotus Eaters"

Written by Kirsten Beyer & Davy Perez

Directed by Eduardo Sanchez

59 comments

Nothing to add pertaining to this last FANTASTIC episode; I really just wanted to say I appreciate everyone posting here. After Reddit, I thought these kind of threads were done for, but here we are. So even if no one reads this, thank you and much love 🙏

Reed Birney's acting is great. His soft voice is very touching.
– Be in the moment with me.
– We look out for each other. Every night we have our forgetting.
– You are guided by your emotions. They are your truth. I find them convincing. The totem teaches that we live in each moment, embrace them.

Wow, these SNW writers really bring it each week, don't they? Not to say every episode is perfect but I've found every single one to be very entertaining and exactly what I want out of Star Trek in 2023. The combination of standalone stories mixed with underlying character development and arcs is perfect.
As for this week, the idea of encountering a planet that could make you forget everything was weirdly creepy, if not a bit implausible. Even if this wasn't her showcase episode, I grinned at Ortega's "I AM THE PILOT!" moment. Also enjoyed the away team being out of sorts on the planet which I thought was well done and not an action overdose like the season opener.
- Wow, these SNW writers really bring it each week, don't they?
  Don't they just! Genuinely excited whenever I fire up the episodes and watch the intro everytime (love the intro music!)

I have loved SNW from the get go but I think its great that to me at least every episode has been great. I don't think I have felt meh or bummed out by any singular one so far. Comparing to TNG and DS9 who had quite a few meh episodes. That is great imo
- I agree, this show has knocked it out the park. It's in the top 3 for me; TNG, DS9, and SNW. The order changes regularly ;)

I mean its a little far fetched a simple helmet protects the kmal yet the enterprise hull let it through no problems (until pack modulates the shield), but wont let that get in the way of a good story.
- their helmets are made of a special ore that blocks the radiation. it's a goofy explanation, but there is a reason why they act differently than the enterprise hull

Was the high pitched ringing sound really necessary, especially for that long each time? That almost physically hurt and it scared the fsck out of my cat.
- @BorgDrone @ValueSubtracted As a person with tinnitus, it seemed important to me. Let me know exactly what was going on. It's also very common in video games, for example when someone is dazed by a nearby explosion. Again it conveyed a lot of meaning to me and helped explain what they were going through.

Definitely felt like classic trek this week. Fun episode. I was really hoping we would get a more in depth episode for Ortegas' character. I did read something last year that she was getting her own episode, so im going to assume this wasn't it.
- I did let out a big guffaw when I realized their bait and switch. Started it out like it was going to be an Ortegas focused episode, and then Spock comes in and pops hers and everyone else's bubble with his Vulcan science. Loved how she put the hat back on as she was walking away, as if to say "I'm gonna wear this for a while longer because I can, dammit."

A very TOS episode that I thoroughly enjoyed!
Can we let La'an have a few happy moments in this season? That woman must be riddled with PTSD by now.
It was great to finally get Pike back! Has he ever told his girlfriend that he's almost certainly going to be disabled? What a pickle he's in. I think if I were in his shoes I would have let the relationship end. The guilt must be driving him insane.
I feel like they might be messing around with the timelines so that they can save Pike from his horrendous fate and just say it's an alternate timeline compared to TOS. Normally I'd be against that, but it's Pike and I love him so much that I almost want them to do it.
- The nature of a time crystal is that it’s a fixed event in every timeline forward.
  Once Pike drew the crystal on Borath, it was locked in.
  
  Thanks, I should know that, I've seen every episode!
  In a kind of sad way he does have a happy ending. I just don't want it to happen to him. Poor old Pike!

I wrote this as I was watching:
Since when have Batel and Pike have a history? Was she in season 1?
I wish they had a tone warning at the beginning of the episode, also I thought the tones went for a little too long each time.
Lol this is the anti-Spock world. "Your emotions are your truth." Maybe Spock should have been on the planet surface as well.
Did Spock forget how to read?
Did the Enterprise not feel the effects in the previous mission? Did they forget to record it or make personal logs?
- For the last one: Spock stated that the previous mission they hadn't stayed as long as they were when the effects started happening.
- If I remember correctly, the very first scene of S1E1 was Batel waking up in Pike's bed, so.. yeah :D
- Good Lord they established that Pike and Batel have a relationship in the first episode.
  
  The first scene of the first episode, even.
- I rewatched the beginning and around 10:17 Spock mentioned that the collision was hundreds of years ago, so they should have felt the effects on the previous mission. Then in the shuttle they mention that the meteor was already there for thousands of years.... So I'm just more confused why the memory effects weren't there before.
  
  They said in the episode that the original mission had been so short (4 hours if I recall correctly), Pike's crew had not felt the effects.

I'm a bit undecided about this episode.
Stuff that I liked:
a strange new(-ish) world
everyone got something to do, unlike last week
once again some funny Spock moments
the visuals on this show are stunning once again. The planet looked nice, the external VFX in the debris field of two celestial bodies that orbited Rigel VII several centuries ago looked nice, the Enterprise interiors look so nice.
Stuff that I didn't like:
I'm not a fan of forced relationship dramas. Plus, from the pilot episode I got the feeling that Pike and Batel (does she even have a first name yet?) are only friends with benefits, but now Batel storms off after Pike says he wants to take it easy? Weird.
how can a society or any sort of structure be maintained if you can't remember anything? The whole premise felt a bit off.
the writing for Ortegas was weak. Her personal log at the beginning of the episode sounded like it was written by ChatGPT. And the stuff towards the end of the episode wasn't great either. The actor did the best she could with what she was given but the writing really didn't do her any favors.
- I like the Pike/Batel relationship dynamic. I like that they're both captains with their own responsibilities, which is new and different from what we've seen in previous iterations of Trek where one is an officer and the other is left at home or something. It doesn't feel forced to me, although the question of weren't they just FWB's is an interesting one, I'd have to go back and look at the pilot. But I'm ok with buying that they're closer than that but just can't make it work because they both have ships to captain.
  I would like to see more of her being a captain. Hopefully there's an episode in the future where we get to see her on her bridge doing her thing.
  
  I'm also in the camp that liked it, Pike since his reintroduction in Disco S2 has been one of the franchises' most emotionally open captains. Most of the time we see this as this self-assured dad energy he uses when talking to his subordinates, but I think it was good to see how he can be vulnerable but still that genuine, emotionally mature guy with someone who's on the same level as him.
- how can a society or any sort of structure be maintained if you can’t remember anything? The whole premise felt a bit off.
  The rulers in the palace could remember, though (because of the shielding provided by some metal). And the workers/slaves remembered enough to perform their tasks.
  
  @exscape @ValueSubtracted @UESPASputnik Spoiler alert, please!
  This is one of the earliest Sci-Fi themes. See: Nightfall by Asimov (1941).
  I thought they covered it well in the ep. (Write things down, write things on YOURSELF, etc).

Still somewhat annoyed that there is no seat belt on the shuttle, even if it is to maintain continuity with TOS. M'Benga looked like he was going to bang his head and get a concussion when they were landing.
La'an: They won't see us coming.
Zac: We totally saw you from the other side of the planet a hemisphere away.
What was Zac trying to accomplish? He lured them there with the Starfleet Delta, but he was not going to hitch a ride home. He expected whatever ship that comes to inspect to... forget and go away, or suffer some disastrous result when the crew become unable to function? Why not just stay low and be king if he wasn't planning to leave?
- Zac didn’t intend for Starfleet to notice the delta. He was content to just stay on Rigel VII as High Lord Zacarias, thinking that Starfleet would never return to the planet because of the debris field and the radiation. But then the Kalar used the delta as a symbol and it got spotted.
  PIKE: Zac. We saw your message, the, um... the Delta in the garden. It's why we came. Isn't that why you did it?
  ZAC: The people here adopted it as my symbol. I should have known better. It's all getting torn out tomorrow.
- It wasn't intentional. The Starfleet Delta was something Zac's followers had done to honour him, it wasn't intended as a lure.

Annotations up at https://startrek.website/post/282663.
This was a very TOS episode yet in terms of feel.
The dialogue could easily have come from the mouths of the TOS cast, and the situation on the planet reminiscent of officers violating the Prime Directive like in TOS: “The Omega Glory” or “Bread and Circuses”. Even Mount's delivery when on the planet was Shatner-esque.
I can readily imagine Kirk, McCoy and a random redshirt or Chekov on the planet in Pike, M’Benga and La’An’s place, and Sulu pulling it together like Ortegas.
- I agree that it has a genuine TOS feel.
  Especially as it gets back to the mid 20th century thought experiments around how the mind functions, but informed my more current understanding of memory, cognitive function and emotion.
  I wasn’t quite sure the balance of the scenes was what it could have been, but it was good to see all of the main cast having their moments. I was nonetheless frustrated that Number One was quickly sidelined once again.
  Also I was uncomfortable with how far Pike was willing to go in his aggression in order to get information from Zack. I believe we’re supposed to feel that, but it did feel that it was pushed just that moment longer to drive home the point that Pike’s deep ethics are what keeps him in check, not his emotions. It also tracks with his anger and how he even used it to break the thrall of the Talosians in The Cage.
  But overall, I liked it. It’s a deeper and more challenging episode than it may seem on the surface, first watch. I suspect it will be one that stands up over a longer horizon.
  
  I felt like they were trying to show Captain Pike as going a little far when beating up Zac, but I thought he was being totally reasonable given the situation of "this guy knows how to keep your memories and you really really need to force him to hand that information over." There was no way for him to know all he had to do was wait around in the palace for a little while.

Outside of Pike and Batel's relationship, are there any points in this episode that look to connect to anything else in the currently ongoing plotline in SNW? I didn't really notice anything, it seems like this might be the most standalone episode.
- Batel’s promotion was nixed by Judge Advocate Pasalk because of her conduct during Una’s trial in “Ad Astra Per Aspera”.
  M’Benga mentions that the reason he and La’An were along was because Pike needed people who could fight without phasers (as per “The Broken Circle” and “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow”).
  That’s basically it, I think.
  
  M'Benga
  You mean "Dr. Seen-Some-Shit."

I'm primarily curious about Batel's job responsibilities. Her main job seems to be as a JAG officer but she also has a field command on the Cayuga?
- She was in command of the Cayuga in "A Quality of Mercy" as well - it seems that's her regular gig, and she was assigned Una's prosecution because...well, that's how Starfleet rolls, I guess.
  
  Everyone knows that ship captains are the best lawyers. That’s why starfleet keeps using them as attorneys in all their trials
  
  I think she was asked by starfleet since she was close, then asked to do jag duty (?!) As a test of her fitness for higher command, which she should have passed.

Damn I love this show. I can't help but wonder if Hemmer would have been affected differently by the radiation if he wasn't a gorn egg popsicle.
- Isn't Spock usually the one to be immune? But he was affected to, so was Una. It's likely that Hemmer would have been affected as well (for plot reasons anyway).
  
  I almost thought Una's super healing ability would make her immune/resistant to the radiation damage.
  
  @UESPASputnik
  Sounds like Troi's telepathic abilities always being mysteriously blocked when the story demands it.
  @UhBell

Thoughts as I watch:
So, I'm wondering: is Cayuga a reference to Rod Serling? He named his production company that in reference to the lake in New York.
Relationships suck when you are a Starfleet captain who knows your destiny to one day be in a beepie chair.
Rigel 7, a deep cut!
We have gone (ZERO) days without some sort of Starfleet prime directive problem.
Finally, some Ortegas action!
"THE HAT IS SUPREME." I'm going to have to use that in conversation.
Oh man, at least she keeps the hat.
"Subdermal universal translators" are the new translation microbes
Oh boy, they have starfleet tech.
Ah, we've got a good old-fashioned "Federation citizen takes over a world" episode!
"This is a cage." Heh.
Forgetting is a scary side effect for a planet.
I get that they were only on there for like four hours, but shouldn't they have noticed stuff like this their last visit? Or maybe... THEY LOST
"Welcome to Memento/50 First Dates Planet"
Can still remember how to fight!
So I'm guessing Spock is probably one of the more resistant to all of this due to his Vulcan-ness.
Man, La'An is having a REALLY bad pair of weeks.
Captain Pike even without his memories is still Captain Pike. Makes sense.
Okay, I guess Spock isn't immune.
Glad to see the Connie class had GPS.
I gotta admit, I feel like Pelia would be good in this episode given just how many memories she has to lose and how many skills she has.
SHE FLIES THE SHIP
The ship's computer is great this week.
Damn, that is some tough silverware, standing up to phaser blasts.
Is it just me or is that a fresco or whatever of Alexander the Great... Zac-ized?
Okay, that logic doesn't quite seem sound, but whatever.
So, uhm, be careful about telling her about the Beepy-chair, Chris.
- “This is a cage.” Heh.
  I hope that one day Captain Pike visits a zoo and says "this is a menagerie".
- I thought it was Cuyahoga? correct me if i'm wrong pls
  
  It’s Cayuga, as per the closed captioning, and it’s likely no coincidence. As I noted in my annotations, the Cayuga first appeared in “A Quality of Mercy”, which shares a title with a 1961 Twilight Zone episode starring Leonard Nimoy. And TZ was produced by Serling’s production company, Cayuga Productions.

It's bugged me a little in previous episodes, but in this episode it really bugged me that the entire medical staff seems to be M'Benga and Chapel - I know it's normal for Trek for the staffs to appear small but normally either it's been a plot point (Voy), others mentioned if not seen (DS9) or that we occasionally see them (TNG, DIS, TOS). It'd be nice just to see a few others about.
- We saw several more staff in sickbay in season one, especially in the episode with the contagion from the former Illyrian colony.
  I found it very odd that Chapel was on her own with no other medical technicians or paramedics in this episode.
  
  @StillPaisleyCat @Calanon She's a modern O'Brien, then. Always in the wrong place at the wrong time without backup. :)

Enjoyed this very much, the tone was very creepy. Reminded me of the psychological horror episodes only TNG really did.
- I would link it back to psychological mystery of The Cage and further to its touchstone, the MGM 50s classic Forbidden Planet.
  
  Rigel 7 is literally a callback to The Cage

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