Ah yes the "enlightened" democracies
Ah yes the "enlightened" democracies
219 comments
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US, Canada, Australia, and most of Europe voted against censorship.
It seems Iran was absent, but Israel voted for it.
From 1939-1941 the UK fought Nazis while the USSR collaborated with them.
South Korea abstained, but North Korea voted for it, as did Myanmar.
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This seems a bit too convenient a spread to be as simple as that. The resolution very likely was phrased in a loaded way or had some bit that was dubious. Seeing as the second red one is Ukraine and all of the west is yellow, while Russia, Iran, China, India etc are green, there very likely is context that isn’t being given to us, either intentionally or by accident.
Edit: With Russia, China, India, especially, I mean their adventures with oppression of minorities and unequality in general between cultural groups or heritages. I’m not saying the West is without fault or anything, but clearly the ones voting green are neither. They probably wouldn’t vote against their own alignments here unless it’s just word salad without meaning or responsibilities. Which is something I’m confident would lead a lot of Europe at least not accept it because it’s just a watered down version of something actually desirable.
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Whataboutism
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The resolution very likely was phrased in a loaded way or had some bit that was dubious
These resolutions are publicly available on the UN website, are typically quite short, and actually quite easy to read in general. This one in particular is only 11 pages long, which includes skippable boilerplate. So this assertion is relatively easy to back up and doesn't need to rely on assumptions, and it can actually be quite fun to read one of these resolutions; you get to feel like a proper journalist or scholar or something. So I would suggest you give it a read and seek out the bit that you find most objectionable.
Personally, based on not much more than gut feelings and historical precedent on similar distributions in votes, am a bit more uncertain than you about the reason behind this distribution. If we take the Palestine cease fire vote in the UN of December 2023, for example, you have a very similar distribution. And I know for a fact that that was an earnest, unobjectionable resolution, that was only voted down by the US because it was in their material interest to do so, and voted down by US client states (or abstention) because they're client states. But on the other hand, we also have the obvious context of Russia using this exact language as an excuse for their illegal invasion of Ukraine, so it's entirely conceivable that there's a section in there that says sth like "and thus, Russia shall invade Ukraine, and we're all cool with that". As such, I'm on the fence, and I'll read the resolution later. But do give it a go yourself! It's a very satisfying exercise
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Do let me know if you have the time to read it. I’ll do the same if I find some myself.
Precisely the Russian rhetoric on and around the Ukrainian war was what got me suspicious.
It could be that western countries just generally are not against nazis or neo-nazis and actively shoot down resolutions against negative things about nazis. That is not however my experience at all, or the de facto state of the law in many countries, such as Germany, that very strongly condemn any nazi associations or symbolism as unlawful. Do note that they also abstained for this one. There’s a reason for that, and while I could be entirely off base, I’m pretty sure it’s not that the western democracies just like nazis and Russia for example is just so nice and honorful to dare go against the western consensus on liking nazis.
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The problem is likely the many references to the Durban Conference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Conference_against_Racism_2001
From the article:
NGO repudiations of the NGO Forum's Declaration
Several NGOs, including Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, disassociated themselves from the language of the NGO Forum's Declaration that dealt with Israel and with Jews.[5][26] The Palestinian Solidarity Committee of South Africa reportedly distributed copies of the antisemitic forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[27]
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Russia, India, and China don't have a "nazi" or "neo-nazi" problem. It looks like the resolution was specifically against that, so stop "whatabout"ing this shit and acknowledge the western countries have fucked up on this vote.
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This is a quote from the resolution:
contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance
It’s not specifically against nazis. It’s against things like putting minorities into labour camps, jails, etc. You know, the kind of thing a lot of the places that voted green actively do this very moment.
But let’s not let that bring our great ideals down. Surely they truly are against the very thing they do, they just can’t help themselves and need the rest of the world to make them stop. Or something?
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Now do one about dictatorship and judicial independence. See how the map looks. These are just bullshit virtue signaling resolutions that have no impact on anything.
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OP made Crimea green. There's definitely an agenda here And they gave away their country of origin with that little switch.
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Look at the timestamp the map is after 2014
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Was gonna say this, although not the part about their "country of origin" (Russian does not automatically mean gullible).
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I think it's referring to this:
https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/1651317?ln=en&v=pdf
... but I don't have time to dig any deeper
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Either the map is wrong, or the header is wrong, because that is not Germany.
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Equal shame for all the countries that abstained. There is not a damn chance any country is genuinely unsure how they want to vote so an abstain vote in this case is just "I want to vote against but am too embarrassed to."
Which happens to be the entire West, not a single country commonly considered "Western" voted in favour. Surprise surprise
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We had a shitstorm in Poland over this, it's extremely shameful that a country that suffered so much from nazism did voted like that, but government just responded "EU decided this"
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Absolutely, the only country that might have suffered more at the hands of the Nazis is the Soviet Union. In raw numbers Poland has the 3rd largest number of deaths in WW2, in % of 1939 population it is first.
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Tell me about it. NZ has the most right-wing neo-liberal pro-American-politicking cabinet we've had in a long long time. (The PM is also so incompetent he's polling the lowest approval we've had for a long time, possibly ever). They got in power off the backs of post-Covid economic hardship, despite having no proposed solutions other than funding landlords and cutting environmental policy.
If it had been put to the citizens, I believe we would've been for it. But the current cabinet doesn't want to piss off American partners no doubt, hoping abstaining let's them sit on the fence a little longer while pretending we're ultimately n9t the bad guy. That will be the reason for most of those abstaining.
I'm disgusted.
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It's not a surprise, really. The proposal was sponsored by the Russian Federation and includes several talking point that they have since actively used to justify their fucking invasion of Ukraine (I.e. Nazis working to disrupt democracies cross-border).
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I'm guessing, based purely on the countries highlighted, that this is a Russian sponsored resolution.
There are plenty of more genuine resolutions you could've picked, but they wouldn't have fit your narrative as well. Please don't launder Russia's lies just to embellish your point.
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You would be correct: https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/1654458?ln=en&v=pdf
At the 44th meeting, on 6 November, the representative of the Russian
\ Federation, on behalf of Algeria, Armenia, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bolivia
\ (Plurinational State of), Burundi, China, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea,
\ Eritrea, Kazakhstan, the Lao People’s Democratic Republic, Mali, Myanmar,
\ Nicaragua, the Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Russian Federation, the Sudan, the Syrian
\ Arab Republic, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of), Viet Nam
\ and Zimbabwe, introduced a draft resolution [...]At the [48th] meeting, the representative of the Russian Federation made a statement.
Also at the same meeting, statements were made by the representatives of Kyrgyzstan (on behalf of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, composed of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, the Russian Federation, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan), Belarus, the Russian Federation and South Africa.
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"If Russia says Nazis are bad, than Nazis must be good!"
Liberal politics is just reaction.
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“If Russia says combating the glorification of Nazis are bad, they might be using too many modifiers.”
fyp
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I love it, it leads to epic blunders like having an homage to a nazi in Canada because he fought the russians.
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It is funny because tankie thought is literal positive reaction to anything Russia and China does. Your comment shows it is also pure projection.
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I said the resolution is bad, not the principle. You're again misrepresenting something to further your own narrative.
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I'm guessing, based purely on the countries highlighted, that this is a Russian sponsored resolution.
Pretty funny how you saw that all of Latin America, Africa, and Asia voted against genocide, and your first reaction is to call them russian bots.
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More that Ukraine voted against it and every single Western country abstained. Was I wrong though?
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We can't condemn the Nazis because if we condemn the Nazis people will think we're Nazis. When people see that we won't condemn the Nazis, that's how they'll know we aren't Nazis.
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I think its more likely that the abstaining countries rely on America for trade or military in some way and don't want to aggravate them politically but clearly aren't willing to vote alongside them.
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Or, as the other (better informed) guy said. This resolution equates tearing down soviet monuments to be Nazism.
That by extension means it equates Ukraine (the country partially occupied and fraudulently annexed by Russia) with Nazism. Countries which respect Ukraine's sovereignty (and have enough skepticism of Russia to read more than the title) wouldn't want to vote against (because of the title) but also wouldn't want to vote in favor.
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This is a weak ass excuse collaborator. You get the pit too.
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The resolution was explicitly designed to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine, an act condemned by 141 countries (ES-11/1) including many that voted for the above resolution. Voting for a resolution condemning Nazi's, written by a Nazi regime and designed to frame their opponents as Nazi's themself ... I'll leave it up to you on how you would view that.
If you want to frame the West as evil, you can without being misleading, ES-10/21 is a resolution drafted by Jordan calling for the condemnation of Israel's genocide in Gaza. That was abstained on by most Western countries and voted against by the USA and Hungary. Many countries cited wanting an "explicit condemnation of Hamas" as their reason, and that is what I'd call a weak ass excuse.
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Lol stay stupid patriot
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Note that Crimea is not counted as Ukrainian in this map. Makes you wonder.
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Its a normal map not a "what the burgers would like to have" map
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:::spoiler Which Country is the Greatest Threat to Peace? (Gallup, 2018)
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UN Convention on the Rights of the Child
Fun fact: The US votes against that one because it prohibits giving the death penalty to minors.
Yeah.
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I mean it's not surprising in the least, well maybe that they do go into such technicalities while killing millions of children around the world.
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Hey hey, it's not JUST about that!
It's also because it classifies child marriage as abuse. You can still get married to or marry off your child as young as 12 in some states.
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Ukrainians viewing the US only to be used by them to fight a proxy war is sad to see.
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Pakistan pulling a "I don't think about you at all"
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Italy beefing with Afghanistan in 2018, smh even America had moved on
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Is that an Egyptian flag on France ?
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UN General Assembly resolution on "combatting the glorificarion of Nazism, neo-Nazism [...] Contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and memes made with mematic"
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The end says 'related intolerance." '
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Description mentions Germany but it's not highlighted like the others?
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The map seems to be rage bait. Israel is green, the UK and Germany are yellow, and Ukraine went red.
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The image contains the date "November 15, 2018", which doesn't match up with anything in the UN Digital Library about that resolution. But if I assume it is the 2018 vote, we should look at A/RES/73/157 voting data, which does seem to line up.
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As someone from the U.S., given the history we know about the Trail of Tears and trying to erase Native Americans from existence, this isn’t surprising in the least. Sad, yes, but not surprising.
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Just like all the colonial powers voting "I don't know about this one dawg" because they know their history
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Statement of the Spanish public TV RTVE in Eurovision
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So…. Anyone want to sponsor me for a work visa outside the USA? This ship is sinking and I’m surrounded by racist assholes apparently, and I want out!! Seriously….
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Getting a TEFL/TESOL certification is probably easiest way to go about it. Most countries require a bachelor’s degree to be there on a work visa outside of some circumstances. It still wont be “easy” but itll be easier than trying to sell a skillset thats redundant in a EFL country. Beware of scams and look for accreditation
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Always the same map.
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Having a metropolis is not exempt from being under oppression.
Would you show pictures of skyscrapers in the middle east to compare its human rights?
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The accusation wasn't human rights abuses, the accusation was genocide.
The propaganda trick here is to throw out a henious story, completely fail to back it up with evidence, then gradually retreat to a far less damning accusation that's essentially impossible to disprove. The smear sticks with most people and you then see how much of the lie you can get away with depending on the crowd.
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Because the people living in the many apartment towers in the top image aren't being targeted in a literal Final Solution supported by the exact same powers that cry crocodile tears over made-up claims of "genocide in Xinjiang".
Also the Uyghurs living in Xinjiang are Chinese citizens, meaning the accusation of colonisation falls flat on its face.
Death to ameriKKKa, Death to piSSrael
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Most Marxist-Leninists are skeptical of the Uyghur genocide narrative because the scant evidence we're given comes from spurious sources like Adrian Zenz and an Australian weapons makers think tank called the ASPI. We're also well-versed in the American empire's history of hurling manufactured atrocity propaganda at its geopolitical rivals.
Ignore the photographs of Xinjiang and Gaza. Just look at the maps to the left. They show that the only countries against China on the Uyghur issue are the exact same colonizing countries which are trying to subjugate the Global South on every other issue. We think this isn't a coincidence.
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Under oppression of what? Of CIA-backed terrorist attacks being suppressed? Oh the huge manatee.
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Love these colonizer index maps
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It's funny because it's the same map as all the "Free world vs unfree world" maps
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- Expresses deep concern about increased frequency of attempts and activities intended to desecrate or demolish monuments erected in remembrance of those who fought against Nazism during the Second World War, as well as to unlawfully exhume or remove the remains of such persons, and in this regard urges States to fully comply with their relevant obligations, inter alia, under article 34 of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 194
Clearly designed to enforce Russian rethoric and force the glorification of USSR. Not surprised it's voted against by Ukraine.
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Canada abstained? What the fuck, hosers?
Edit: wait all/most of Europe as well? WTF
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As a Canadian, Canada has way more Nazis than people realize and the broader government tends pretend we don't have a Nazi problem while certain politicians are full on embracing them (just look at Danielle Smith). It's not as bad as in the US, but that's a really low bar and isn't exactly praiseworthy.
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It's amazing how Canada giving a standing ovation to a literal SS member has been so quickly memory holed.
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I've always preferred for people like this to self-identify so we know who they are. Creating a silence where hatred lives has never struck me as a good approach, but I get the argument that allowing hate speech unchecked can cause people to be swayed. On the other hand, it's always terrific to see people running for office or otherwise aspiring to positions of power being thwarted by the classic surfacing of a picture of them showing their true colors...
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If you read the resolution and the answers of national governments why they abstained, the answer is found in points 4 and 14 of the resolution, where everyone who fought against the anti-Hitler coalition is condemned and equivocated with nazi-sympathisers. This does include people who opportunistically fought againt the Red Army in the baltic states and Ukraine for national liberation from the USSR, but not necessarily on the german side.
Yes, some of those "national liberation fighters" were absolute shitbag nazi scum, but not all of them were and history is generally more complex than just good and bad.
There was a movement to restrict those two points to language that does not automatically include these anti-soviet forces among the ranks of the nazis, but the changes were not adopted.
Some politicians posit the hypothesis that the resolution was worded in such a way through russian string pulling, because they wanted to be able to paint every anti-russian fighter in the time of the second world war as pro-Hitler.
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Yes, some of those "national liberation fighters" were absolute shitbag nazi scum, but not all
If you are fighting against the Allies alongside "shitbag Nazi scum," you are a Nazi sympathizer.
The vast majority of the world sees this clearly.
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Canada has a large diaspora of Ukrainian Nazi sympathizers. They famously gave a Ukrainian Nazi a standing ovation in parliament.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/canada-speaker-apologizes-ukraine-nazi-veteran-honored-rcna117125
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lmao I'm jealous at how easy the Russian propagandists have it sometimes
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Australia as well… I guess it’s white peoples’ fault after all.
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I think the Right has a significant enough presence over here as to encourage our leadership to tread with care, lest they upset someone. It's not good.
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This is all the more egregious now when Russia seeks to use a false accusation of Nazism to try to justify its unconscionable ongoing brutality against the people of Ukraine.
- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: audio | transcript
- Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: 'I want to bring up a warrior': Ukraine's far-right children's camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- Consortium News, 2023: The West’s Sabotage of Peace in Ukraine Former Israeli Prime Minister Bennett’s recent comments about getting his mediation efforts squashed in the early days of the war adds more to the growing pile of evidence that Western powers are intent on regime change in Russia.
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
- History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV
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Damn, all of south america, africa, and asia are russian bots now. /s
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oh democracy my failed god
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Abstaining knowing the US will vote no is also voting no.
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When your support for a country is so blind and unconditional that you can support genocide.
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For a decade, Russia has submitted a text denouncing the 'glorification of Nazism'
In the context of the war in Ukraine – and with Russia justifying its invasion, which began on 24 February, by the desire to "denazify" the country – many states that had previously abstained decided to vote against the resolution
In its explanation of the vote, the European Union recalled that it had been advocating "for years that the fight against extremism and the condemnation of the despicable ideology of Nazism must not be misused and co-opted for politically motivated purposes that seek to excuse new violations and abuses of human rights."
According to the press release published on the UN website, Ukraine called this text hypocritical believing that, contrary to its title, it was a pretext used by Russia to justify its brutal war against its country and the despicable crimes committed against humanity.
The countries opposing the resolution emphasize at every turn that they do not in any way condone the Third Reich. "We reaffirm our strongest condemnation of all forms of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices fueling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance," Ukraine insisted in 2019, while recalling that 8 million Ukrainians died in the Nazi offensive.
Before the vote, Australia managed to get an amendment to the draft resolution adopted (63 votes in favor, 23 against and 65 abstentions) inserting a new paragraph in which the General Assembly "notes with alarm that the Russian Federation has sought to justify its territorial aggression against Ukraine on the purported basis of eliminating neo-Nazism, and underlines that the pretextual use of neo-Nazism to justify territorial aggression seriously undermines genuine attempts to combat neo-Nazism."
Hmm...
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France: Imperializing and committing atrocities in Vietnam, Algeria, and much of Africa for decades. Has strong relationship with the US and Israel. Votes with US and goes along with all its wars.
Algeria: No relationship with Israel. Votes against genocide.
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Wrong on this one. France did show it can say no! (and then France had another limp president who ran back to US with its tail between its legs... Anyway.)
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Thanks for the context.
Given Russia submitted the text, and given how european countries voted, I suspect this is mostly about Russia looking for justifications for attacking a neighbour and grabbing land.
Defending Nazism or showing Nazi symbols is illegal in Germany. Holocaust denial is illegal in several european countries. Yet they abstained.
They'd probably vote for such a text if it came from another country that doesn't "undermine genuine attempts to combat neo-Nazism"
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Ok, why did Ukraine vote against?
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Because when the vote was cast, Western Ukrainian Banderites were in power. Previously in this post.
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Because the US installed nazi-sympathizing government in 2014: https://forward.com/news/462916/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-ukraine/
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It's Russias way to keep the soviet legacy intact and justify it's war of aggression to "denazify" Ukraine. There is a huge cultural shift of breaking off any remnants of Soviet "glory" in the country. Sadly it's hidden behind a lot of valid points, that would explain the abstain votes.
- Expresses deep concern about increased frequency of attempts and activities intended to desecrate or demolish monuments erected in remembrance of those who fought against Nazism during the Second World War, as well as to unlawfully exhume or remove the remains of such persons, and in this regard urges States to fully comply with their relevant obligations, inter alia, under article 34 of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 194
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Refusing to condemn Nazis and insisting on destroying and desecrating the monuments and mortal remains of the people who defeated Nazism seems like it would only vindicate Russias accusations, particularly when you're putting up statues to people like Bandera in their place
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Germany has truly lost its way not siding with its broskis USA and Turkey
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That resolution probably broke Deutschland's brain, because although it was a resolution against glorifying nazism, it was also against other forms of discrimination, which they're cool with.
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Ukraine is Türkiye????
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Fuck I got double vision
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Why the hell did Russia vote better than Europe? We need some better people in office.
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Its because europe is ruled by the usa empire
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Check the map closely, certain parts of Ukraine are green. This is Russian propaganda.
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You're really not beating the Nazi allegations.
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No its fully covered in red
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Wasn't that UN resolution's one of the definitions of Nazism, that "the belief that the Ukrainian language and people are not a Leninist fabrication, to break the unity of the Russian empire"?
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Not as far as i can see.
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There's nothing wrong with xenophobia when we have no xenos to phobia about.
People, like HP Lovecraft and people like him, suffer from a crippling intellectual handicap that renders them unable to discern their fellow man from actual, factual xenos.
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actual, factual xenos.
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219 comments