The Windows 11 problem
The Windows 11 problem
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The Windows 11 problem
203 comments
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I could probably tolerate Windows 11 if:
- the start menu search didn’t search the web and just searched my system.
- the widget panel wasn’t just a wrapper for their shitty news aggregator that seems to only gather celebrity news
- If I have windows pro, I don’t want notifications to use Edge or see TikTok, Amazon, Candycrush, etc. in the start menu (I know they aren’t downloaded but what “pro” wants any of that shit)
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the start menu search didn’t search the web and just searched my system.
Windows 10 has the same problem, that one isn't unique to 11.
Widgets I don't think there's anything that can save that. 10% of the space is set aside for actual widgets, the rest is just their "news".
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I used a regedit to fix the web search part of it. Starallback is what I use to fix the rest of it. After that, it's almost like I'm using Windows 10.
Changing audio output does still take an extra click compared to before, but I've just been dealing with that.
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Searching the web isn't that bad, it's on the bottom anyway, no? Or did they change that in Win11?
Still waiting for my taskbar changes, mainly.
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This is definitely a personal preference thing but I think if you want to search the web, you go to the web browser. And if you want to search for a folder or file on the system, windows search should fulfill that purpose.
At the very least, it should be a toggle. The current implementation of Windows search feels like it’s only there to force people to use Edge
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As others mentioned, there are ways to disable all of this shit incredibly easily. ShutUp10++ is my personal choice for debloating Windows 10 & 11. Now, should it need to be done in the first place? No, but I'd say installing the program is easier than learning a whole new operating system.
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I can understand that sometimes hardware needs to be deprecated, but windows 11 is trying to ditch hardware that is still quite new. And with all the chip problems and expenses it has not been so feasible to "just" get something more up to date.
If I'm going to buy something with the same money that I bought what I have now I'm going to end with about the same pefromance of what I have.
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Yeah the hardware I'm running can easily run cyberpunk and any other modern game with satisfying FPS. Yet, it has no 8th gen CPU so I'm not able to upgrade. If I would upgrade my CPU just for win 11 I would have to replace my mainboard and then my GPU would bottleneck which would be, well, sad, so I would feel like I need to upgrade it too ... And well, we know where this leads. I'm just not in for this ride just for Windows 11. I already use Linux on a different drive and prepare to fully switch to Linux. It's just for gaming that I still use Windows and I feel like Linux could really "profit" from Microsofts decision to ditch Windows 10 under this conditions.
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Most of those requirements are, to quote Captain Barbosa, “more what you’d call guidelines than actual rules.” Registry hacks can bypass the more specific CPU requirements and the TPM check, allowing older PCs to run Windows 11. That’s how I upgraded my gaming PC to Windows 11, which has a first-gen Ryzen CPU (just barely missing the Ryzen 2000 minimum), and it runs Windows 11 just as well as Windows 10. Maybe those hacked installations of Windows 11 will stop working at some point, or a future Windows 12 update will make those requirements actually required, but so far Microsoft hasn’t given any indication that will happen.
I found this part of the article interesting; it’s the first time I’m hearing about it. It’s nice to know that my old desktop won’t be stuck on Windows 10 once it’s deprecated, although it’s also… fucking ridiculous, to say the least. If it weren’t for two programs that WINE/proton can’t run, I’d have switched it over to Linux years ago.
Edit:
Microsoft even had to carve out exceptions for its own hardware: the 2018 Surface Studio 2, which was priced at up to almost $5,000, nearly didn’t get Windows 11 because it had a 7th-gen Intel CPU. It was later added to the compatibility list.
Jesus fucking Christ Microsoft
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Yep. I can literally buy brand new hardware that doesn’t run Windows 11 without an extra purchase (TPM module).
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ITT: People who just read the headlines and not the article, and then going off on their own Windows rant/Linux evangelism instead of discussing the article.
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I read the article and I still evangelize Linux.
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I read the article! It suggests in a hundred different ways that Windows 11 sucks and that sticking it out with Windows 10 is a bad idea for a dozen different reasons.
The people here suggesting Linux nailed it. If you're not using Linux at this point you're just being lazy, IMHO. If you have any issues you can always just troubleshoot and fix it but based on the anecdotes posted so far it's obvious no one claiming to have tried Linux has done much of that.
Get off your ass and learn something new for real or stop bitching and bend over for Microsoft with your wallet ready to pay them afterwards for the privilege.
People bitching about Windows on their personal PCs is like people who don't vote bitching about politics.
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No, I just want to use my time in other ways, thank you. You can call it lazy, but that's what it is. Windows 10 still works, the issues won't come till 2025, and regardless, Windows 11 issues are mostly personal preferences (I just want my task bar to work in a certain way).
This religious-like evangelising over Linux is such a turn off, regardless of whatever technical merits the OS might have. It's definitely not moving the needle for me, and it's turning me off the fediverse.
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Linux is great but it’s not always an option. It doesn’t run every app or game that Windows has (Proton is great but it’s not 100%), or maybe you’re doing dev work that has to be on a Windows machine, or you’re using some hardware that isn’t supported well in Linux. I switched off Linux to Windows (and then later to macOS) partially because Photoshop and Lightroom are pretty great tools for my job and the workarounds/alternatives weren’t cutting it.
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Putting this burden straight on the consumer is stupid. Most people don't care about what's running on their machines and have absolutely no interest in learning it. Same thing with cars, you know how to operate it and that's enough for 95% of the people. I agree that Linux is not that hard to learn and understand but that's already too much for the standard consumer.
The issue is and has always been with Microsoft and the deals it had with OEM and governments. It locked us into a Microsoft only world (office being absolutely everywhere, windows installed by default on 99% of hardware etc.), and things that were unveiled by the Halloween Papers etc.. Microsoft changed its stance on FOSS but it's only because they managed to profit from it (azure mostly). It's still the same garbage company.
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Every half a decade or so since windows 95 I have tried Linux and I have come to the same conclusion each time. I rather use windows 95.
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If you’re not using Linux at this point you’re just being lazy
I used Linux for over twenty years and stopped about two years ago due to Linux invariably moving to lazy, poor development and design all the way from the kernel up. Rapid kernel development with tons of random new patches and ideas instead of the old way of maintaining a stable kernel and doing random patches and ideas on a separate branch (the odd minor versions vs. the stable even ones, and even the modern "stable" kernels are just the same branch of constantly rapid updated kernels where they just choose one at random and say "this is 'stable' now and we'll keep patching it instead of telling people to install new ones"), systemd being more of a problem than a solution, the push for everything to move to Wayland forcing every single thing that has to do with lower level desktop interfaces, including all of the lightweight window managers, to completely rewrite themselves with tons of bloat that replaces everything X.org did by default as well as Wayland's devs taking a "it works on my computer" approach to bugs and dismissing tons of major issues people have found, pipewire still not being a stable, reliable audio system (Linux has never had one, but using ALSA with the right hardware back in the day where everything would mix via hardware was a decent solution), distros becoming more and more unreliable and buggy (even "stable" and "long term support" ones), distros and developers giving up on native and running bare metal applications and substituting things like flatpak to run things natively with any sort of cross-platform reliability and fucking wine -- essentially a new version of Windows running in Linux, which is an admission of failure to make a successful game platform if I've ever heard one -- to run games, and on and on.
I've been able to use Linux very well until a few years back. I used to be one of its biggest advocates and wouldn't dare run Windows.
No more. People bitch, moan, and complain about Windows 11 so much but for me, it just works. Simply, easily, no problem. Do I wish I still used Linux? Hell, yes. But am I given how bad it's become? Nope. I've even tried going back here and there and quickly ran into the same huge list of problems and aches that were never there before and back to Windows I go.
Sorry, Linux is a pain and it's not about being lazy, it's about wanting to use a decent OS that just works as well as Linux used to.
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The Windows 11 problemThe problem: Windows 11
FTFY
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Sorry but I hate this argument. Most people use a phone for that anyway. And my 70 year old mom is going to ask my dad and if he can't fix the problem someone else and guess what. They never worked with Linux. I can tell you that a lot of the buttons and controls have looked the same in Windows for way too long. Admittedly from Windows 10/11 this gets worse.
Also they will need software from the local photo place, some shit old legacy app that they refuse to let go, banking software that isn't Linux compatible.. it's never "just browsing" from my experience and it's not worth the hassle. Especially if I'm cornering myself by becoming the only 24/7 on-call admin for my family.
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I switched my mom to Linux back in 2014, and she hasn’t had problems with it (except every 2 years when she makes me update her to the new version of Ubuntu, because she doesn’t want to do it herself). My dad has tried to switch her back to Windows, but she likes Ubuntu better. He eventually switched too after he retired and we built him a computer. He uses it for browser+light gaming, and Linux works well for both now. (He was familiar with Linux as part of his job, so it wasn’t hard for him to get used to the switch. Though he was really only familiar with the terminal.)
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Debian is very stable, and its also pretty easy to update and have long term stability. You can just click a button to update or have it automated. If all they're doing is browsing, Debian should be sufficent, plus, it's free.
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generally would have agreed with you but since i got a new Monitor i have had nothing but Problems.
Granted i don't make it Easy for Linux by having 3 monitors at 4K:60Hz 1440p:144Hz 1080p:60Hz but still
all my Browsers always crash. I assume it has to do with Scaling since they like to especially crash when i move them between monitors. Then Gnome randomly crashes. It's a nightmare.
was forced to come back to Windows 11 because of all that Bullshit. I guess the upside is much better Security on Windows, but still. Although that added Security is pretty useless since every fucking Program needs administrator rights for some inconceivable reason.
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They used to say that 10 would be the last version and they'd just update that
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Apparently that was never the official line, and was just something a "dev evangelist" (marketer) said at some conference and it stuck
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Windows 11 definitely has its issues, but I don’t think the author of this article has sufficient knowledge to be writing articles about it.
There’s not a great solution for switching to UEFI in an existing install
MBR2GPT is baked into Windows and works great as long as you don’t have a jacked up partition layout.
Windows 11 demands a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) 2.0 security coprocessor, which isn’t in many PCs that meet all the other requirements.
Part of the reason that Intel 8xxx and Ryzen 2xxx processors are the baseline “requirement” is that they have fTPM 2.0 embedded in the silicon. It’s actually in the overwhelming majority of devices that meet the other requirements.
There appears to be no loss in functionality when bypassing the installation requirements… so why do they exist?
Microsoft could provide a more limited Windows 11 experience to PCs that don’t meet the strict requirements
By providing and sanctioning a “limited” experience, Microsoft would then have to dedicate resources to supporting that experience. I’ve worked with tons of legacy devices that had odd quirks that required workarounds in Windows 10, so I can’t really blame them for wanting to limit how they spend their support resources.
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I second MBR2GPT. With a guide it's quite straightforward to migrate from BIOS to EUFI but probably too scary for the average user.
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No, you can't blame them. You also can't blame people for not upgradeing. The truth is picking totally arbitrary install requirements, especially ones that favour new hardware to high end ones alienated the early adopter base. Also microsoft killed any goodwill againtst them by bloating windows even more.
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It's not arbitrary. Securing an OS today is a huge challenge and Microsoft wants to leverage this tech to facilitate this. New hardware supports it, a lot of older hardware supports it and they strongly encourage this as the new standard.
Yes it means some people won't update without workarounds but they are setting a standard moving forward and for supported hardware, they were quite aggressive with the upgrade (I had to make sure the TPM was disabled in BIOS on a machine I didn't wish to upgrade early on).
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It’s easier than ever to switch to Linux, especially if the thing holding you back was gaming.
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i actually switched back to Windows from Linux because it didn't work well with different resolutions and scaling and my Programs kept crashing.
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Inb4 "it's your fault" comments
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same here. switched back after years of dual booting because on all my DEs over the years I consistently had these issues, not to mention I make music and daws fucking hate Linux / wine. just made sure to debloat it before I used it.
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I saw in your other comment that you were using Gnome. A lot of people like it, but Gnome wouldn't be my recommendation.
I use a multi-monitor setup not that different from yours, and KDE handles it swimmingly. I also have an Nvidia card and I'm using X.org. I probably could use Wayland, but I'm in no rush.
If you really want to stay with a GTK desktop, then XFCE is excellent also. Budgie too.
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Interesting. Were you running Windows programs with Wine?
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Prob a gnome issue, I've never had an issue with scaling on kde, xfce, or i3 with my 4 monitors
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Feels like everyone advising to switch to Linux for gaming actually doesn’t play a bit on Linux
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Haven't encountered a single game that doesn't work since being on Linux for over a year, though they surely exist, and I've played at least 30. The only things annoying me is that I have to reconnect my steering wheel after I start Dirt Rally 2.0 to have Force Feedback, and that I can't tab out of League of Legends and instead have to minimize it with win+down.
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I stream the games I play on Linux. Feel free to check out my channel: https://twitch.tv/SylphWeed
Latest I played through was Horizon: Zero Dawn.
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Yeah, no. You still can't play as many games on Linux. Linux is wonderful for network related tasks, though! And it is certainly getting much better at supporting games.
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I say we boycott windows 11
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Already with ya! I’m never touching 11. I still use 10 for games, but debloated and telemetry disabled.
When I reformat I’m going Linux, with a small 10 partition for VR/games that run better on Windows.
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Oh man, been doing that for 10 years!
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I've stayed away from Windows 11 because of the bloatware and TPM requirements. Turns out, my old processor that was rejected by Microsoft actually had TPM 2.0, it just needed to be enabled from the BIOS. Well, I installed it a few days ago and everything look great. The bloatware was a problem but there are FOSS apps for that. The UI looks clean, the taskbar is uncluttered, and I feel stupid for not updating before. I don't know if I'm the minority here but I think that for most users Windows 11 is easier and more accessible.
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I would say there's less bloatware that win10. None of that weird candy crush shit they pulled. I personally prefer 11, I use it on my work laptop but because of the TPM requirement my gaming PC that I had recently got a new motherboard for just before the requirements were announced, I'm still stuck on 10 with that.
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Strange about your motherboard. I have an older one and just had to enable it via BIOS. I've heard some support it as an add-on module.
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If you have an 8th gen Intel / Ryzen 2000 series or newer.
You need to confirm that you have secure boot enabled. CSM disabled and the TPM features enabled. Depending on which setting is holding you back you may need to reconfigure your existing windows installation to boot again.
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I updated as soon as I could. I've loved it since day one and now with Copilot it's even better. I love it.
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I did too, until I got a new PC 😐
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That's a really well written article.
Looks like I'll be going Linux. Better OS for casual use anyway.
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I don't need to read this article to know that the Taskbar Calendar/Agenda Flyout is still missing.
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Man, they took that out from Windows 10? That was such a handy thing to have.
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And 'replaced' it with widgets that spam you with unremovable, gutter-press, shite
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I've been gradually shifting over to Linux ever since Windows 10 launched and even back in the days of Windows 7 really and the further Microsoft gets from its roots the closer I get to Linux.
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All I have to say: Windows 7 forever!
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Botnets and malware rejoice!
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It is still, to me, the height of their design language.
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I just miss translucent ui :(
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Windows 7 with "God Mode" was the most I've ever enjoyed the start menu search bar. I miss it so much
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They are giving up on UWP? Fuck yeah
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You don't really need to learn any commands for distros like Mint Linux or Pop!OS. For most people, they could switch without even really noticing that much of a change.
If you require specific programs for work, I would not recommend making the change at this time.
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I'll switch to Linux the moment Playnite gets a native working port on Linux and not a moment sooner. All my laptops run some flavour of Linux, but my gaming... I need playnite, it's just so nice to use.
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Idk, like if the average person is the one who uses the os as a bootloader for $whatever_browser, then there's little to no difference. And if some windows-specific software is necessary, then windows is just way easier, I guess (wine works fine for me personally, tho).
On the other hand, if you want the os to behave the way you want, then Linux is way simpler.
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Windows 11 soon gets more AI integration. Scanning all your files and content of files, this is no conspiracy. Deleting your Microsoft account if it detects misbehavior, even if you never shared this private info with anyone. You'll also not be able to program anything you want anymore, because if the AI detects it's possibly malicious, it will delete your Microsoft account.
It's probably a lot of fun if you have stuff on your onedrive or use outlook.
Why is there so little outrage about this? I hope it doesn't release for win10 or is blockable.
Edit: first is German though https://tarnkappe.info/artikel/netzpolitik/microsofts-neuer-servicevertrag-erlaubt-totalueberwachung-aller-nutzer-280856.html
https://www.microsoft.com/de-de/servicesagreement/default.aspx
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/DigitalSafety/moderation-and-enforcement/content-detection
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https://www.wired.co.uk/article/windows-10-pirated-games-microsoft
Maybe you can you remind me what happened to this? Literally everyone who ran pirated games had their software disabled right? Right???
Stop trying to spread FUD for something they are not going to do. They're just covering they're asses as well as they legally can.
203 comments
Honestly, between the telemetry data collection, the strange hardware requirements, advertisements, bloatware, and unknown future licensing model, Linux is looking like an attractive option. At this point, I only use Windows for Office and gaming, and Linux + Proton has gotten really good lately. I don't see a reason to use Windows on my personal machine any more.
We don't use the word "Spyware" like we did twenty years ago. It's baked into Windows now.
They could bring back BonziBuddy and nobody would bat an eye
Linux is fine for people like you and me who are comfortable installing our own operating system, and trouble-shooting any problems. Most 'normal' people though will continue to walk into a store, buy a laptop, and use whatever came installed.
Of course, the year of Linux on the desktop actually happened some time ago without anyone noticing. It's called ChromeOS, and that's a whole different can of worms.
While true, how much troubleshooting does windows require? Because as I sometimes use windows, it's not that much less work to get it to do what you want it to do, or solve issues, than linux.
Especially since it feels like windows tries to fight you every step of the way.
Once people get over the initial Windows indoctrination, Linux is simple to use and doesn't require tons of complex troubleshooting like people think. Before the COVID lockdown I tried for the Nth time to get my dad to use Linux. I had it installed and told him to stick with it for a few weeks (he only browses the web and plays solitaire). If he still didn't like it, I'd reenable Windows. Well that few weeks turned into 6 months. Now both he and my mom have been happy Linux users for about 2 years.
When people are talking about Linux Desktop they usually mean GNU/Linux. Chrome OS and Android both use the Linux kernel, but they aren't GNU/Linux like we understand Linux desktop.
GNU/Linux needs a company that will create a Macintosh equivalent. A company that will design quality hardware. Restrict the hardware they support tightly, but highly optimise the drivers in their devices. Selling their equipment with a distro that's well supported with bug testing and user support. Each update being tested on all their devices.
This would allow people to buy their devices without much thought.
I think people in the past thought this could be Ubuntu and Canonical. But their business is server, so there desktop will never get to the place it needs to be.
The steam deck is pushing Linux closer to this place. But I don't think it will be enough.
To add to that, Android is likely the overwhelming market share of Linux-based operating systems in use today. For that matter, an absolute ton of Intel CPUs have Minux installed on them too, but I wouldn't call this "on the desktop", just interesting.
Imagine sounding this elitist because of an operating system you use
Until you realize that many orgs have software that only works on windows.
Its not a great situation
Storage is super cheap these days. Just buy an extra hard drive for Windows and boot into that on the rare occasion you truly need to use Windows. Or just use a VM.
Corporations have access to a version of windows that doesn’t have telemetry, advertisements or bloatware. Its called Enterprise Edition.
I’ve worked as a SWE at Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn, and none of the devs I worked with used Windows. Everyone either used Mac or Linux. It’s just a matter of time before the dev world bleeds out into the consumer world.
The subscription rumor was debunked pretty quickly. I honestly don't see that happening anytime soon, PC makers would get pretty upset (especially if they don't get a cut of the revenue).
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Do it. I only use Windows to play my heavily modded copy of Skyrim and now Starfield. Everything else has been Linux for years.
I have been playing both of those on proton with little issue, and I'm not positive that the issues I experienced are exclusive to linux.
I was using Mint for a while but the system got hosed. I plan on modding Starfield, and there was another game I can't recall that wouldn't work on Linux. After I best Starfield I fully expect to wipe my system again and go with a more stable distro of Linux (e.g. Gentoo or something).