Athletics governing body to require DNA tests for women’s sports
Athletics governing body to require DNA tests for women’s sports
World Athletics chief say rules will uphold the integrity of women’s sport amid debate over inclusion of trans athletes.
Finding a Y chromosome isn't that helpful where performance is concerned as it isn't just XY and XX out there and some chromosomal abnormalities can mean you are less susceptible to testosterone which can impact development.
There are people with genetically high red blood cell counts or lung capacity. Usain Bolt has a much higher percentage of fast-twitch muscle fibres (top sprinters tend to be 80-90% compared to the average of 50%). Are we going to test for those too?
Human biology is complicated and the more we know the less black and white it becomes. A crude genetic test isn't going to help with this.
While broadly aimed at athletes who have changed their gender, World Athletics’s testing requirements would also affect small numbers of competitors who were born with atypical sex chromosomes.
But they aren't discriminating against men with chromosomal abnormalities? Why? Is it because they see men as inherently better and if you are the best you must be a real man?
What chromosomal abnormality would give a male an advantage over other males in sports?
You remember that high-profile win where a trans athlete beat all at-birth people of the same gender? Yeah. Despite the fear-mongering, it just doesn't happen...
This is a pretty sad grey area. Trans athletes definitely need to be included in sports/competition but in sports like swimming, running and power lifting the men's qualifications are just in another league of their own, hormones and muscle mass really do make a massive difference and I have no idea what the solution is (its not DNA testing). I'd even go as far as saying that genetics on their own give some athletes a massive advantage over others in their sports (Eg XX females with naturally high testosterone, muscle mass ect...)
It also heavily depends on what hormones if any the transgender woman is on. Monotherapy increases estrogen count well above cis female levels, and both monotherapy and via T blockers reduce testosterone so drastically that agab has absolutely no role in overall strength. I had moderate muscle mass and a very lean build before transitioning (from amateur climbing and track), and quickly lost all of that within four months on monotherapy even with regular gym attendance. My leg strength stayed about the same but overall build and gains are exactly on par with my cisgender peers now. The point being I'm not sure one can even argue that they could train on natural T before transitioning to gain an advantage, as maintaining that muscle mass is near impossible. And if policing hormonal levels becomes a thing if low-dosage is a concern, then many cisgender women would also be barred for competing due to naturally high testosterone.
Thats great insight, you're right I was exclusively thinking about my own experience as a cis male swimmer growing up. I hope things become more inclusive and more research is done on the topic.
The rules that already prevent competition until 2 years after transitioning already 100% cover any point in time where there would be any remnant of their time spent with different hormone levels. Basically, the problem was already solved decades ago, which is why there has never been an actual issue in practice.
The results should be interesting. IIRC, 23andme had to stop sharing sex chromosome data after discovering just how many intersex people exist and how many people who thought they were cis women turned out to have Y chromosomes.
The Olympics have nothing to do with the original Olympics anymore, do they? They have skateboarding ffs. But trans is too far.
Actually, now I'm curious how they will handle cases of people with more than 2 chromosomes.
And, who runs these organisations? Are they under US influence?
Which original Olympics? In nude? With OG disciplines?
To be honest, the classic disciplines are boring.
I liked skateboarding, breaking (breakdance).
Maybe we should be more unisex, add more shooting, chess, card games, e-sport, Formula E, etc.
add more shooting, chess, card games, e-sport, Formula E, etc.
I know it wouldn't be unheard of (art used to be a category) but I'd hate this so much because to me, the Olympics are a celebration of physical excellence.
Sebastian Coe, the president of World Athletics, said on Wednesday that track and field’s governing body had agreed to introduce the testing to keep the “absolute focus on the integrity of competition”.
That's the point I was addressing. The Olympics have change a lot. If they want to talk about integrity, they've already lost.
Maybe we should be more unisex, add more shooting, chess, card games, e-sport, Formula E, etc.
This is why I don't watch the Olympics anymore. They are a parody of the original.
Actually, now I'm curious how they will handle cases of people with more than 2 chromosomes.
Me too. Actually, this is explicitly called out in the article,
World Athletics’s testing requirements would also affect small numbers of competitors who were born with atypical sex chromosomes.
But they don't say what would happen. The easy ones: presumably, XYY is treated the same as XY and XO is treated like XX. But how would XXY be handled? Or cases where we have genetic chimerism - e.g. some cells are XY and some are XO or XX. (One way this happens is if fraternal twins of different sex are in the womb, and then one absorbs the other.)
Intersexed folks at best seem to be an afterthought in this proposal.
If the tests are sensitive enough, someone with XY gonadal dysgenesis might be counted as XX as well, though I'm skeptical on this point. Actually, this is exactly why such tests are bad - someone who presents as female in virtually every public way, and would be seen as female in terms of sex under even many forms of medical examinations, could be treated as male under these rules and forced to compete against men.
It's the exact opposite of what the anti-trans folks say that they want to accomplish - protecting women from male athletes.
This isn't about not wanting trans people in the sports and you know it. It's about the unfair advantage they have over biological women.
Spoken like somebody who hasn't read a single line of research on the subject. Maybe educate yourself first before believing the "unfair advantage" hoax.
You and people like you keep saying this and there is no fucking proof.
You just "gesture vaguely at the male-female strength difference"
Vibes based regulations will hurt people. Mostly not even the people you are trying to hurt.
What's a biological woman and why do they matter more than ""non-biological"" women?
There are certainly female athletes with chromosomal abnormalities competing at any level. Women, who are completely unaware they're in any way different because they have lived their entire life like any other woman. Women, who on average have a small boost in performance compared to women without chromosomal abnormalities.
Why should they be banned? Please elaborate and please also answer why this shouldn't also apply to women of certain ethnicities with boosted competitive performance.
If it was about that, then it was solved decades ago... when it was made that people who have transitioned can't compete for 2 years.
You ever wonder why, despite how there should be hundreds of cases of the thing you are worried about actually happening, it still literally never has happened? That's because it already can't happen. It was solved. 100%.
Bullshit. You don't and have never cared about sports, this is bigotry plain and simple.
As a short person I will not rest until tall people are banned from sports
Procrustes rule.
I’m all for trans rights. Trans people deserve rights, and support, and respect. BUT, here’s my take on sports:
If I wanted to coach an athlete to make it to the Olympics and win gold, I’d scour my country for a trans woman and train her for literally ANY individual sport.
Pole vault, 100 meter, javelin, swimming, you name it. We’ll kick ass.
That is simply not true. A male puberty does give some benefits in some sports. But any advantages in, e.g. muscle density, vanish once hormone levels are accounted for. And hormone levels have been (over-)* controlled for decades now.
You know what also gives you an advantage? Being taller. Or having higher blood oxygenation. Or certain abnormal body proportions. Once you get to top level sports, you have people that basically won the genetic lottery, mixed with a shitload of training. Just look at Michael Phelps or Katie Ledecky in swimming, for example. Both are very exceptional in both body and technique, and dominated their sports.
So why is trans inclusion such a divisive point, but, let's say, height is not? Tall women dominate basketball, should we ban everyone over 1.80m? Or test for hemoglobin before runs?
Trans athletes dominating a sport has not happened in any relevant capacity. I challenge you to find even a single case where it has. This is purely a political talking point, nothing about this is about sports
Women have (sometimes illegally, and often without consent) been subjected to hormone and chromosome testing for decades, to the detriment of mostly cis- and intersex women. I'm not aware of any trans women caught up in this, at least on an Olympic level.
So, why doesn't anyone do that, if it's so "possible".
Downvote me all you want. If my trans woman athlete went through male puberty, my Olympian would take the gold metal.
Be real. Have a nuanced discussion about this.
Trans people have been able to compete at the Olympics since the mid nineties, so if male puberty really did have such a large effect on performance, we'd have had next to no cis women win medals for three decades. Instead, every women's Olympic medal in that period went to a cis woman. Taking enough hormones to physically change the shape of your body has a detrimental enough effect on athletic performance to wipe out the advantage from male puberty. In principle, an athlete could gain the advantage back by stopping taking HRT, but the Olympic rules require stable hormone levels for two years, so they'd just disqualify themselves if they tried.
If that was the case, you'd think it would have happened at least once by now. You seem to be unaware that "problem" was solved decades ago, before it had any chance to become one.
Nuance?
It's "medal".