1mo ago

Linux users failing to respect trans Linux developers

Sorry, no sneer today. I'm tired of this to the point where I'm dreaming up new software licenses.

A trans person no longer felt safe in our community and is no longer developing. In response, at least four different forums full of a range of Linux users and developers (Lemmy #1, Lemmy #2, HN, Phoronix (screenshot)) posted their PII and anti-trans hate.

I don't have any solutions. I'm just so fucking disappointed in my peers and I feel a deep inadequacy at my inability to get these fuckwads to be less callous.

71 comments

MOD NOTICE: we're not putting up with debate club rubbish in this thread. If you don't have the reading comprehension to understand the problems with those threads, you shouldn't be posting here.

jesus fuck
it’s not particularly gonna help or even make me feel better, but I’m probably gonna reopen that first Lemmy thread a little later and just start banning these awful fuckers from our instance. nobody attacking Asahi has a god damn thing to say to any member of our community.

I hate it so fucking much that a non-trivial number of FOSS communities have become hostile nazi bars in the last years (or maybe they always have been and I've just not noticed it before).
Why would anyone shit on Lina of all people? She's such a nice and wholesome person and her work is exceptional.
Fuck these asshats.
Also, from that one Lemmy thread:
What fascists are ruining OSS?
LOL! Lmao even. Just input Linux into the YT search bar and you have roughly a 50% chance of getting fascist content.
- maybe they always have been and I've just not noticed it before
  As someone that was a 'nerd' back in the day before Big Bang Theory made 'nerds' cool, I'm gonna say that they always have been and you just haven't noticed before.
  The nerd / tech crowd have always been a bunch of miserable little sexists and dorks with a superiority complex. And half the time that little Timmy got stuffed into a locker or dunked into a toilet, he fucking deserved it. And to me, it's really no surprise that they're homophobic and transphobic too.
  If Big Bang Theory was actually accurate, Howard and Raj would be prolific posters on incel forums that whine and gatekeep every time the girls come over and then later whine about being lonely, and Sheldon would be borderline nazi. Not sure about Leonard because even without changing anything about the show, he's still the only half decent one of the lot.
  
  I’d like to see a Venn diagram of computer nerds and incel, goth, trans, nazi, furry, hippy, punk, etc.
  There’s a lot of diversity and I’d guess it would have some correlation with area of expertise.
  I never got the sense that FOSS was particularly incel/anti-LGBTQ. But, tech support, maybe.
  Would make an interesting sociological study.

Wow, those phoronix forums have really turned pure fash, haven't they?
- From one of the comments in the screenshot
  Those comments are sickening, what is wrong with you people?
  Almost no one else but the woke hunting crowd is here, as there's little moderation and everyone else left
- Tbf, that entire comment section got nuked, but I feel like the admin should either take a stance and moderate some, or at least disable comments on articles that are obviously going to have that problem instead of even giving an outlet to those monsters in the first place

i've heard it said before from people better at wording it than i am, but seeing this: it's crystalizing for me that people really do see "a trans woman" as "a woman i'm still allowed to abuse". i can call her mannish, i can tell everyone she's making it all up, i can call her hysterical and dramatic, i can freely speculate on her mental state to the approval of my peers, and no matter what she does -- leave loudly, leave quietly, stay and suffer the torment -- it will always be her fault and she will always be doing it wrong
- To be fair, many men see every women, including cis, as one they're allowed to abuse and all the other things you mentioned. And then it'll be her fault for being "hysterical" or something similarly dumb.
  
  it's the same playbook, to be sure

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
Why are people so fucking trash?
I don't even smoke or drink and I need a fucking bottle of whiskey and a cigarette.

not on topic at all, but this thread once again makes me appreciate awful.systems as the sane corner of the internet that it is. just no tolerance for bullshit and great values. i wish i could just take that for granted, but it's become exceedingly rare. thank you <3
and lol to all the shitheads thinking they can spew their shitty "opinions" on how people feel
- 🍻

I did not know about this (though I am not surprised): many of those threads mention a particular fruit-based website or forum dedicated to doxxing, harassing, or marring the reputation of people they don't like. While I won't speculate as to the involvement of that site with this situation, it's just another shitty thing that exists that I now know about.l
- I found the other day that the fruit site is once again going on semi reliable hosting and I nearly punched my computer as a result
  absolutely fucked that it persists
- It’s not the orange site
  It is “fruit” + “agricultural term”
  
  I think the fruit in question is hairy, has brown skin, and green flesh.

So I'm not seeing much on the Lemmy posts, presumably the mods have cleared those up already?
I get why you're disappointed, but there has also been a lot of push back against the toxic and hateful behaviour which is a positive thing to see.
Its important to remember the toxic people are loud and obnoxious but they are a minority. The majority needs to keep pushing back against the hate and push the values we share in the linux community of equality, fairness and respect among many others.
Unfortunately though, aside from trying to make our communities safe and welcoming spaces there is limits to what people can achieve. No one in any community can stop bad actors harassing people outside the community on social media, or obtaining and sharing their personal information.
Linux communities are not the specific problem - we do not exist in isolation. Its society that is a mess and particularly now in the US where the political tide has turned so toxic and negative. These hateful people currently feel they have licence to be hate.
All we can do is push back against the hate everyday, and show our support and value community members like Lina. Its very sad they do not feel safe to continue working on the projects they worked so hard on. But they need to see and know how much we appreciated and valued their contributions and that they belong in this community. The hate filled bigots do not.

You would think someone has to be somewhat open minded and accepting of diversity to use FOSS. Life is full of disappointments. Sorry to see her go through this.

Phoronix needs to shut down their comment section it has always been a cesspit of morons
- Yeah, Phoronix is somehow a tier below even below HN. The Gamergate freaks of Linux enthusiasts. At least on Slashdot or HN, you might occasionally get someone with actual technical expertise posting. Phoronix just seems like a playground to push whatever the latest "I got this software for free and I hate it" grievance is, which is a profoundly pathetic thing indeed.

On the hn thread, so many green names.
Gotta say, lemmy seems like the only sane place when it comes to minorities and linux development.
- Sorry what is a HN green name?
  
  A very new user.
  It's basically free to create a HN account, it's not tied to email or anything like that.
  
  very new user. Hn accounts have a really low barrier to entry.

I assume the second Lemmy link is suppose to go the .ml thread and not p.dev, as that comment section seems fine?
- You linked a feddit.uk thread instead of a lemmy.ml thread.
  
  I linked to a feddit.uk view of a post in !linux@lemmy.ml because I was being lazy.

screw them. ban all the ass hats!

If you want to find out whether Lemmy users are transphobic, ask them what Drone Rights did wrong.
- What is Drone Rights? (Google weirdly insists on telling me about drone rights rather than Drone Rights)
  
  A trans person who was mean to people who misgendered them.

Sad as hell. Maybe dropping dev work was really best thing to do (I currently can't even open those links), I only wish they get enough support to not drop what they are. As little as it is, they have my heart

How do you not have respect for someone who writes software, and then makes their hard work freely available to you? If someone doing significant FOSS work does not earn your respect, I don't think you're capable of respecting other people.

- Yeah classic attention seeking behaviour. Just say you’re stopping work on it for personal reasons, or give details. The only reason to tease gossip like this is because you like the drama.
  hey fucker I found one of those toxic posts you don’t seem to be able to see

- The phoronix screenshot is the only one that contains open trans hate, though
  Pretty much proves that it is the „anime alter ego” of the guy. My god, the times we live in.
  and if you think the orange site is at all safe for trans people, that tells me everything I need to know
  
  What's "the orange site"?
  I don't have any interest in seeking out people being shitty, so I don't want to hunt through the links to figure out which site you are referring to.

I don't see any comments when viewing the Lemmy links, am I missing something?
- yeah, apparently you’re missing all of the comments

- Is it that you can’t read, or won’t?
  
  the poster has been helped to post elsewhere

71 comments