At a Republican town hall in Nebraska
At a Republican town hall in Nebraska
At a Republican town hall in Nebraska
Love how he thinks the idea of taxing the rich is so ridiculous that merely repeating it back to the audience is a counter argument.
We really need to get the money out of politics.
"best I can do is a tax cut for those making over $250k"
To him it’s ridiculous because they give him so much money. He can’t fathom another point of view.
why just politics? punish them for, you know; destroying the world and taking so much of all our lives.
edit: if they push us so far that the common person is down for taking real action, make sure it can't happen again.
It's a hilarious failure to gaslight an entire town hall by himself.
That’s a big red state.
Please provide the link, I want to see this for myself...
The reason Luigi is so popular with Americans is because he is a microcosm example of the Sociopathic Oligarch's worst nightmare - The average American rising up to literally KILL the wealthy. He is just one man with one victim, but what if he were multiplied by hundreds, or thousands, or millions?
The way black people felt about OJ, is now being felt by all working class Americans toward Luigi. So the wealthy, and the system, want to punish him harshly as an example to the rest of us, while we are plotting ways for him to escape punishment.
When the people are demanding a reasonable solution, and they are dismissed by the goverment in favor of punishing Americans in order to benefit the Sociopathic Oligarchs at our expense - AGAIN! - the Free Market will find an alternative, and nothing frightens them more than the threat of Luigi's Solution catching fire, and becoming a trend.
I like how luigi was being astroturfed by the grifters and MSMs until they realize they are making things worst by turning rabid right wingers agains tthem. all of the msms and grifters went quiet for a month. ALso it was drawing attention away from musk and TRUMP too.
Luigi isnt going anywhere. He still has a trial ahead, and it promises to be a full-fledged circus, potentially bigger than the OJ Trial which was a legal spectacle beyond description.
HitlerPig won't be able to avoid Luigi's spotlight, and he will be making daily special updates to air his ignorant opinions. I wouldn't even be surprised if he shows up to watch the trial one day.
Can you expand on how it’s comparable to OJ? The guy killed his (ex) partner. To me, that’s much different.
OJ didnt kill his partner, he killed his ex-wife, but that's not the point.
The point is that in both cases, the killer and the victim have taken on symbolic roles for different segments of society. In OJs case, he represented black citizens, especially those in LA, who had been brutally, systematically discriminated against by the LAPD for decades, while his white victim became symbolic of white crime victims at the hands of black criminals.
In Luigi's case, he has come to represent the people who have been systematically discriminated against by corporations in general, but especially by the breath-takingly corrupt health care insurance system, while the corporate serial-killer CEO has come to represent the Sociopathic Oligarchs and amoral trans-national corporations who ruthlessly, sociopathically exploit every hard-working American. Obviously, the Sociopathic Oligarchs dont share the same perspective. Like all ultra-wealthy, they think that they are the victims, and that poor people get ALL the breaks.
It should be noted that neither set out to be a symbolic example for American society, or at least OJ didn't. He was a fucking dickhead, who had the world by the balls, and just threw it all away in a stupid jealous rage, probably exacerbated by steroids.
Luigi may have hoped he would kick off a movement, and he has, but we don't know what his motivations truly were because he's not admitting to anything, as he should. He still has a chance to get acquitted based on his face not being seen in the murder video. That alone is enough for a juror to claim reasonable doubt, so he should keep claiming his innocence.
The bottom line is that we, as a society, apply these symbolic roles to these people, outside of their control. Those that deliberately try to set off a revolution, usually fail, like Charles Manson trying to touch of Helter Skelter (his designation for a race war) with his mass murders. Other examples of those who have been assigned symbolic societal roles include Trayvon Martin/ George Zimmerman, or the murders of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, etc.
the jury was sympathetic to Oj, because they saw how much injustice was done against black people, and still does. so they voted to acquit him, despite them knowing he murdered people. AA specifically celebrated that he wont the case , only prude white people dint like him winning.
Excellent point! I feel like Americans don't like to understand that practically everyone in the U.S. is working class now. If you cannot quit your job tomorrow and live off of passive, savings, and residuals you are working class. The system is designed to facilitate this, with spartan social safety nets and lack of pensions. It's shit-tier by developed nation standards.
What's that other quote, ~"it only takes 3.5% of the population to generate massive change"? Obviously I am being flippant in this specific instance, but America is a failed democracy and empire in decline.
There is hope, but it requires taking back the power by direct action.
Mark Penn and Malcolm Gladwell (and many others, im sure) have both written about micro-trends, and how it takes such a small amount of the population - 2 or 3% - to reach a "Tipping Point," and force major change.
Its the reason the Conservative Propaganda Machine works so hard to keep us so confused and at each other's throats. They know that if even 3-5% of the population turns on them, they are royally fucked.
Nah I say we make some cuts to the capitalists
Remember, upvoting this meme back on Reddit might earn you a ban now!
and yet, people stay there.
I remember why I left :3
I'd rather see Elon spend life in Solitary Confinement. It would be the ultimate irony that the same government he did his best destroy takes away his freedom for life.
He should have it worse than the average prisoner though. Padded white cell with nothing in it, and maybe he has to wear a straight jacket on the weekends. He'll also only eat Nutraloaf.
I think the ultimate punishment for all oligarchs and fascists is to live with nothing but their own thoughts as a stimulus. They took the gift of their mind for granted and poisoned it with greed, misinfo and hate. Let them live in it
Nah that would cost money and taxpayers have already paid too much to him to need to pay more for his "care".
Napoleon kept getting out
Nah it aint worth the government resources
For, you know, government efficiency and all.
Yes, efficiency >:3
DOGE. Department of Government Executions?
I'm down for this. I think we need to make cuts in most areas of society, but I have no objections to starting in government.
you know; austerity.
Thing about a class war is it only works as long as you can subdivide the lower classes and make them hate each other.
Even the GOP base has figured out that the boot on their neck belongs to the rich, probably thanks to Elon's haphazard culling of govt employees, specifically veterans, while preserving funds that benefit the rich.
Say what you will about conservative voters, but when something is obviously harming them specifically they will go after it, and Trump's administration has finally blundered enough to wake at least some of them up.
class war [...] only works as long as you can subdivide the lower classes and make them hate each other.
That's not how class war works, that's how they try to prevent class war, ie war between classes.
I think they mean that's the tactic used by the wealthy in their part of the class war.
It's the same story with the status-quo-protectors vs innovation-seekers no?
First party just wants to stay put so everyone who thinks like them are already in the same camp. (zero vector)
Others side agrees that vector of "politicial compass" must be non-zero but they don't agree on the direction so the net effect is 0, status quo.
I'm fairly convinced that what makes a lot of the US population right wing is a lack of understanding of what that means.
also propagandizing that there is an actual left or communist party in america too. usa is the most right wing WESTERN country out there. being puritanical around nudity is pretty telling too.
Right, for the most part the Democrats tend to fit the definition of conservative better than the Republicans. The Republicans themselves more or less covering the spectrum of right wing. Although you do occasionally get a character like Nixon who policy wise in a lot of ways meets the definition of liberal better than most of today's Democrats.
My dad (long time conservative but can't get on the trump train which is good at least) thinks that "tax the rich" means people like high end doctors and surgeons. People who are absolutely in the top 1% but like "has a nice weekend car and maybe a lake house" not people making millions of dollars per month or week (or more)
Your dad thinks that people earn money by working for it. In other words, he's what would be a normal person in a socialist society.
All you have to do now is teach him what capitalism is.
Yeah, it's hard for the human mind to comprehend how much money a billion dollars actually is and neither of the two major political parties in this country want to expand it to them
The top 1% make roughly $600k per year, or probably more significantly (as not all rich people get "income"), a net worth of $11million according to this article
So yeah, maybe some doctors are in that category, but it's probably just the real big earners.
Natural result of the massive and constant effort to make the Republican party seem less insane than it is that's undertaken by both political parties for some reason
The Civil rights activist SJW cringe compilations were literal Russian propaganda to get malicious and stupid people to reject the civil rights movement.
If they refuse to tax them, I say we EAT them.
We should. Every year, during tax season, we should take the richest person (or company, fuck it) and redistribute 50% of their assets. Pay for UBI with it, fund social services, etc. Then we build a statue in their honor in the hall of "greatest winners".
What about their legs? They don't need their legs
Wood chipping the rich and their lineage is faster. Could even make them go through a water slide and end in the wood chipper.
No last words. No quotes. Simply cleaning an infection as indifferently as the maggots stuck to the side of the trash bag you toss out.
You know how some Chinese provinces eat frogs? I want my millionaire done like that, but I want to be the one who salts them.
I say we cage them in cuba and let them eat each other.
"So your proposal to solve (the debt) is to tax the rich?"
"So your proposal to solve the empty gas tank is to put gas in the tank?"
"So your proposal to solve the dog getting out of the yard is to repair the fence?"
"So your proposal to solve the problem of not being able to see is to put on your glasses?"
Bro. It's the most obvious solution. It also has the added benefit of being the only one that's proven to work.
Being a representative whose mind doesn't immediately jump to that solution is like being a truck driver and not immediately jumping to the solution of slamming on the brakes when you're speeding toward a red light: it's not a difference of opinion or policy, it's dangerous negligence. Why are you holding meetings about this? If you're dedicated to not slamming on the brakes, just try swerving into the daycare playground or whatever your twisted idea is. Don't hold a town hall asking for a rubber stamp on plowing through the toddlers, and definitely don't act surprised when your constituents react in horror and propose using the brakes instead.
Tax the rich!
…And we voted in the wealthiest man in history and a narcissistic luxury hotel magnate, who openly touted a regressive tax plan, to do it?
Makes perfect sense to some, I'm sure.
Somehow they've been convinced that the lower/middle class pays taxes so migrants and other minorities can live like the people they elected and Republicans are the ones fighting to protect them from Democrats who want all their money.
at the same time ignore that the billionaires and corporations dont pay taxes.
Damn this is so on point. This is exactly what's happening. They love us fighting each other. God forbid we all come together and Luigi the rich.
Whom also has a factual history of being a con man, rapist, adulterer, and outright horrible person.
Literally which one
Tax them or eat them.
We don't tax billionaires to fight the national debt. We tax billionaires to fight BILLIONAIRES.
(But whatever gets us there I guess.)
I should probably have mentioned:
The main point of the post is that despite the connotations of the word “debt”, retiring the debt would be a disastrous mistake.
Even running multi-year neutral (or surplus) budgets would probably cause a recession.
And that’s not a weakness of the US economy, it’s just how fiat currency works.
What response was he expecting??
"TAX THE RICH!!!"
"So your solution is to tax the rich?"
"Oh... Well now that you put it that way... No I guess not."
It’s so stupid, it could wrap around to being unbelievable. If only I hadn’t seen so much stupidity in such a small time, that is.
He thought he was talking to temporarily embarrassed millionaires
The district's gone red for twenty years. So, yes.
Wait till you hear what rich folks say about that plan!
https://patrioticmillionaires.org/
(Spoiler: A lot of them agree)
If they agree then why aren’t they lobbying these politicians?
For every billionaire that agrees, 99 other billionaires disagree. 1 billionaire isn't gonna win a fight against 99 billionaires
Edit: And also because they are Millionaires, much less influence lol
They are.
Video I found: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mUwdNOCenco
I’m sure whatever he said after that clip ends was in effort to gaslight that crowd into thinking taxing the rich is somehow a bad thing.
Wont take long until they reintroduce taring and feathering.
I wish I could see the rest though. I would love to hear where he went sure that.
Finally they know who their true enemy is
The dipshits will continue to vote GOP, don't worry.
I'll tax the rich!
He's a socialist!!
I mean think about it guy you've been cutting taxes for the Rich for 50 years and the debt has gone up remarkably. It ain't rocket science.
From 1980 to 2008 there was a perfect correlation between whether a Republican or Democrat was in the oval office and whether the debt was blowing up insanely or actually being paid off (Clinton, the lone Democratic President during that period, actually had a budget surplus the last two years of his Presidency). Unfortunately, it was still impossible to get Republicans to believe that the ballooning debt wasn't the Democrats' fault - "tax and spend liberals" etc. etc. Then Obama joined in the "deficits don't matter" parade as did Biden, and now you can't even use actual facts to try and convince people that Republicans are as far from being "fiscal conservatives" as it's possible to be.
How long do you think it will take, that trump ist making the words "Tax the Rich" a illegal pharse because i dont know ...... Maybe terrorism or some other stupid cause for that phrase?
How about "where's the whole video, where's the whole video". I like where this was going, but would love to see where it went. I can't find it. Anyone have a link to the entire thing?
I'm not sure if it's the full town hall, but the one thing I was able to find that was more than a few minutes long was this video titled "Republican Town Hall LIVE | Congressman Mike Flood NOT Afraid to Listen to his District"
https://www.youtube.com/live/GW2hRMYVhjQ
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=GW2hRMYVhjQ
That title seemed a little biased to me, so I looked up its Wikipedia page, and guess who founded News Channel Nebraska?
So, yeah, it's entirely possible there was some deceptive editing or some other nonsense, also it's entirely possible that video will disappear if their founder decides it's bad for him to have this out there
thank you so much for posting this. his response to the demands was
'joe biden proposed a tax on the rich that would generate $50 billion per year, which isn't enough to fix the debt in one year'
and
'it would hamper growth'
'growth' - you know... that thing that cancer does.
guns.
Don’t worry bud, it’ll trickle back down to them.
It'll trickle back down to Flood, sure. But that's as far as it'll go.
I wonder if we could make any headway arguing that taxes were automated trickling down. We had the rich, and we all benefit from things like roads.
I am not opposed to inreasing taxes necessarily, but people need to understand that the income of wealthy individuals is not used purely for the fulfilment of their needs and wishes. Rich people play a rather important role in allocating and managing resourses(capital) in society, and increasing the taxes will decrease the capability of rich people to invest, which is not ideal.
Also, if the tax increase is percieved to be unfair, rich people can just leave and go to Monaco or Switzerland or any other "rich friendly" country. They are pretty much free to do so and they do it all the time. So increasing taxes will not necessarily lead to more tax revenue if they are increased above what is reasonable.
I am so happy karma is not a thing here btw. I would be in an unenviable position otherwise.
You're literally preaching trickle down economics. Which from the state of things today, clearly does not work for the benefit of the lower and middle class. The greatest times for the middle class in US history was when we had a 70% corporate tax rate. Upward mobility though hard and smart work is a myth. The richest people in this country see you as indentured servants, and they would let you get mangled in an industrial accident if they thought it would save them a dollar.
I'm guessing you expected the downvotes to be fair, but I'd try and actually engage with what you said, since you clearly took the time to think it through and express it well.
What you're suggesting (that the wealthy classes play an important role in wealth distribution, that's hampered by tax) is pejoratively referred to as "trickle down economics"[0] and slightly less critically referred to as "supply side economics"[1].
You might want to reduce taxes on the wealthy for some other reason, but the idea that it helps the economy is very poorly evidenced, and there's quote a lot of evidence to the contrary.
It also seems to miss the fact that a lot of poor countries (take Nigeria[2]) have very low taxation, and many very wealthy countries (take Sweden[3]) have very high taxation.
My two cents are that, sure the rich might spend some money on things that benefit everyone, but it's probably a lot less than the amount of infrastructure development taxation can fund.
There's obviously complexities, but the idea that "people will just move" doesn't seem to happen in reality. I'd also say that, excluding perhaps billionaires, being moderately wealthy in a equitable society with good healthcare, transport, roads, etc, is a lot more desirable than being more wealthy in a society with less of those things. But I guess that's just my take, I don't have any evidence for it.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
[2] https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/nigeria/individual/taxes-on-personal-income
The term "Trickle Down Economics" was coined by Will Rogers, but ironically, he wasn't advocating for it, he was warning AGAINST it, in favor of "Trickle UP Economics:
The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover didn’t know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellow’s hands.
He was 100% right, and we have proof. During the pandemic quarantine, the economy actually boomed, because the government did a couple of rounds of stimulus payments to all Americans, who spent it, thus STIMULATING the economy the way it was intended. Corporations like Amazon and Walmart had huge increases. The struggling delivery service business suddenly stabilized, and continues to be a viable business. Many people created successful home businesses that added to the economy. Others took the opportunity to learn new skills, and emerged from the quarantine with improved employment and compensation potential.
It proved that if you give the money to the people at the bottom, it will eventually get to the wealthy anyway, but at least it will grease the wheels of the economy as it moves through the system on its way to their hands. The wealthy would prefer that the government just hand them the money directly, it's much more efficient for them than to wait for it to Trickle Up, but all they have to do is be a little patient, and they'll still get their money, just after it has done some good for the economy first.
The current "Trickle Down" system is starting to crack, and it will break and collapse unless it is forced to hold together by oppression and violence, which is the path we are on now. If the Sociopathic Oligarchs don't eventually embrace "Trickle Up Economics," the real Free Market will replace the current "Trickle Down" system with "Robin Hood Economics" (Take from the rich, give to the poor), which the Sociopathic Oligarchs won't like at all, since it usually includes punitive violence toward the oppressors.
I do not believe taxes need to be set as low as possible for the rich, I simply said the negative effects of increased taxation of the rich can offset the benefits at some point. The government should not wage war on the market economy, it should optimise it. But for the socialists it seems the economy is the enemy, and they think very little about the consequences.
But there is a more important point: efficiency. You say we do not need the rich to finance things, however, planned economics are less efficient than market economics because central management of such a complicated structure is very difficult. The rich are a lot more opportunistic and conform far better to the expectations(that are expressed in the market by price) of what investments are needed/more efficient than the goverment possibly can.
Well, in my personal experience and according to the people I know, people do move, and if they are sufficiently rich, it is hardly a problem. But I suppose it is not as cut and dry as that, and often it is more difficult for people to move.
Why do a small amount of individuals need to be the gatekeepers on so much wealth?
And what is the alternative? What would you prefer?
Capital is economic power. Should it be concentrated or not? Well, I will first say that I do not see a reasonable way to drastically reduce this inequality of power apart from socialism(as in planned economy, not welfare) which I reject for many reasons.
I would say it should be concentrated because: Most people do not have the desire or capacity to wield economic power. This has nothing to do with their intelligence or worth as an individual, but with their character mostly. It involves making many difficult decisions and significant responsibility, as you are at risk of losing your investments. You also need to show initiative which many people lack. If capital was evenly distributed most people would not have the foresight to invest but likely would just spend it to buy the things they need/want for the already mentioned lack of desire and initiative for entrepreneurship.
Also, there would be no or very little incentives to do well since you would have about the same amount of money as everyone else anyway, and this would destroy our economy, since it relies on capitalists altering the allocation of resources based on personal incentives and information granted by the market(expressed by price). If these incentive structures are weakened, this can make the economy unresponsive, which will make the resource allocation uneffective, probably even less effective than when the economy is managed by the state(socialism).
So if the rich don't like paying their fair share if the taxes, they'll just move? And go where? Any country they'd like is going to have even higher taxes than are being suggested in America. In addition, Americans living abroad still pay annual income taxes to America, as well as the country they live in.
They'd likely have to learn a new langugage, a new culture, new food, etc. They'd be far from the things they love about America, all so they can save money on taxes that wouldn't improve their already opulent lives one tiny bit. Do you really think a multi-billionaire, who already is so wealthy that neither he nor his descendents could ever spend it all, is going to leave the incredible comfort of America just to save a few million in taxes that they'll never even notice?
I am not opposed to inreasing taxes necessarily, but people need to understand that the income of wealthy individuals is not used purely for the fulfilment of their needs and wishes. Rich people play a rather important role in allocating and managing resourses(capital) in society, and increasing the taxes will decrease the capability of rich people to invest, which is not ideal.
It's also not ideal for them to run rampant with unbridled greed.
I was gearing up to go off on your comment, but meh. You're just wrong and there's no need to explain beyond that.
fuck off with that neoliberal bullshit.
I am not opposed to inreasing taxes necessarily, but people need to understand that the income of wealthy individuals is not used purely for the fulfilment of their needs and wishes. Rich people play a rather important role in allocating and managing resourses(capital) in society, and increasing the taxes will decrease the capability of rich people to invest, which is not ideal.
Governments already do "investing". Elon Musk is the wealthiest man in the world thanks to the US government subsidizing Tesla, SpaceX and Starlink. Your tax money is already going into allocating and managing capital in society, so how about instead of letting wealthy individuals choose how capital gets invested we let the government decide that? It's neoliberal brainrot that wealthy capitalists, without any real oversight, should be the ones to dictate how capital is used.
Also, if the tax increase is percieved to be unfair, rich people can just leave and go to Monaco or Switzerland or any other “rich friendly” country. They are pretty much free to do so and they do it all the time. So increasing taxes will not necessarily lead to more tax revenue if they are increased above what is reasonable.
And let them go. The wealthy can go wherever they want but most their wealth is tied to their businesses and moving those businesses elsewhere is extremely expensive. The can take their wealth with them only if they spend an insane amount to transfer all their businesses out of the country or if they cash out their businesses. Both come with a significant drop in wealth, so they're not going to do that. You've been fed bullshit propaganda.
Governments invest in some things, but they can't effectively manage the entire economy. It is too complex, and markets provide information that will simply not be available under central planning.
Hell, even now government investments are highly inefficient for many reasons. The government is getting ripped of by private contractors, as they can't control the complexities of production, have nearly unlimited resources, so they do not optimise, and a lot of asinine decisions are made because nobody cares enough. Look at how bloated the military funding is in the US for example.
the income of wealthy individuals is not used purely for the fulfilment of their needs and wishes
You need to understand wealth as power, and the wishes of the wealthy being to exercise that power over others.
Their role in "allocating resources in society" is controlling the resources of society. But what is "rule" if not "control of the resources of society"? What is democracy if the rich have all of the power over society.
It's a damn lie, is what it is.
Taxation is a demand by the demos to control the resources of society. That is, it is a demand for democracy.
Which means the rich can allocate themselves into a fucking hole, stuff their heads up their own asses, and suffocate.
I understand it. Capital is absolitely economic power. I discussed this in a different comment, feel free to read it.
It seems we just have different values. There is no point in arguing.
Dude that line of reasoning went out with Reagan, and the last time it worked was in the 1920s. You might want that to be how the rich behave, but mostly they just lock capital away and watch the numbers grow.
We don’t need an economy based on pandering to rich assholes in the hopes they give us money. We need an economy where everyone pays their fucking taxes. It’s that easy. If the very wealthy stopped hiding their money and coming up with impenetrable tax evasion schemes and just paid their taxes like everyone else, we wouldn’t have to raise them on anyone.
Even if they do mostly "lock capital away", as you said, this changes very little in my opinion. The market incentives are still present, and it is the expectation of the return on investment that keeps the economy running.
"We don’t need an economy based on pandering to rich assholes in the hopes they give us money." - but you do have to discriminate on who gets money. Rich people fulfil this regulatory function. What is the alternative?
I should say that rich people, especially those that find themselves in precarious positions, are motivated to minimise their tax obligations by our economic system. This behaviour is not surprising by any means, and the responsibility is on the government to manage taxation in a proper way, not on the rich.
If they were competent at allocating resources, then the 2008 Financial Crisis never would have happened. They're just the ones in charge, with no better information than anyone else. So we might as well just vote on how to spend the taxes.
An easy way to prevent capital flight is to increase Land Value Taxes.
What makes your position unenviable is not its score.
They are competent at allocating resources according to market tendencies, which, if the economy is mismanaged by the government, can cause damage lick the 2008 financial crisis. Crises are a well known trait of market economies, and successful government intervention should prevent them, as it has for quite a while.
Information that is provided by the market to capitalists and is expressed in price is exclusive to market actors. Price shows what should be invested in, what should be bought, built, etc. What is needed, to summarise. This is impossible under the command economy, and this is why since the economy is very complex it csn't be effectively managed by the government.
The rep after the cheers "Wee Woo, Wee Woo!!!"