10h ago

Are there any non capitalistic technology companies still around?

I'm an immigrant working in the USA, I came here because of the promise of a better tomorrow, a meritocracy, a seat at the table at big tech, and for a while it felt real but then my company was acquired by a larger entity and it all went to shit, now I'm in a race to show I'm the most competent and dedicated person with the most technological knowledge to keep my job and not get layed off.

If I ask my manager or my director a question or challenge their thought process I get called into a 1 on 1 meeting where I'm told I'm a great asset to the team but me asking questions of them in a team setting sets a bad example, and my questions aren't in bad faith infact in the meeting I was lauded for asking the right questions, but being pulled aside and being asked to kiss the ring felt disgusting.

At one point in my career I cared about what I did and who I worked for I felt pride over my product and my team, and all I feel now is shame to be associated with my company, I feel disgusted with myself that I work not for my customers but for shareholder value.

So I guess my question if any is are there still companies that exist in the USA or outside that still give a fuck about what they're doing and not just inflate that companies value so it can be sold or keep the stock price going up.

I would love to live and work somewhere where my value isn't determined by how much money I van make or how much shareholder value I increase, I wouldn't have to worry about a visa and if I can/will be kicked out if I'm no longer employed.

I could go back home but the work culture there is atrocious it was the reason why I had left, I lasted 5 months and I couldn't take it and put in my 2 weeks to go to the US for a Masters degree in Computer Sciences.

I'm sorry that this turned into more of a rant than anything else but I'm at a point where I don't really know what I want to do anymore, any advice or conversation is appreciated.

44 comments

If I ask my manager or my director a question or challenge their thought process I get called into a 1 on 1 meeting where I'm told I'm a great asset to the team but me asking questions of them in a team setting sets a bad example
This isn't on you. If you manager's skin is so thin that they can't take some critical thinking thrown at them, then they shouldn't be a manager. Though if you're doing it all the time it's probably very annoying. If they're doing some self-destructive braindead company decisions, then just roll your eyes and don't say anything while waiting for their comeuppance to bite them in the ass. You don't have to kiss the ring but you don't have to be a nuisance either.
So I guess my question if any is are there still companies that exist in the USA or outside that still give a fuck about what they're doing and not just inflate that companies value so it can be sold or keep the stock price going up.
Maybe a small business with decent core values. They are very rare though, and are liable to be eaten alive by a change in management. So basically no.

One answer to capitalist companies seeking to maximize profit at all costs are worker owned companies. When the workers are in control of the business decisions, they won’t vote for the decisions going against themselves.
Sadly, I don’t know that many worked owned tech companies. One example is https://www.igalia.com/
If more people would be willing to start work owned companies rather than your typical capitalist startup, we could have more options.
- https://tech-coops.xyz/ seems to have a list of companies.

I recognize that this is a very different angle but there is a global trend for free open source software which are non profit by design.
Of course this basically means you need to be a developer and than there is still the question about how to survive within economic society.
I doubt you want to live from donations coming from where you are now.
The sweet spot, which might be viable for you is an open source devision within a for profit company. Many industries have started to understand the massive value of open source software and standards. Companies like redhat build open source tools on one side but then sell industry tailored packages and support to enterprises for profit. Even Nvidia has started to open source some level of their drivers because they realized that enthusiast will often improve on those for zero costs.
I imagine in some of those divisions its just like a normal company with not just devs but all kinda of roles your direct product will be used by the for profit stuff but also be free for everyone else out there that might need it.
- Thanks so much for your reply, sorry for the delay I got distracted and was watching a yms video, the issue is the visa a lot of places I would love to apply yo but th3y can't/won't sponsor a visa.
  Though a non profit does sound like a better option for me I will try and look into open positions that would sponsor a visa.

At one point in my career I cared about what I did and who I worked for I felt pride over my product and my team, and all I feel now is shame to be associated with my company, I feel disgusted with myself that I work not for my customers but for shareholder value.
This tracks with my experience here as well.
keep my job and not get layed off.
For me, it seems like falling in line and kissing the ring is more important than showing ability, if you want to avoid being laid off. At a previous job, I got laid off before my very noob coworker who took months to complete PRs because I wouldn't shut my mouth about RTO.
a meritocracy
🌎🧑‍🚀🔫🧑‍🚀 Never has been.

I’ve worked for a small business in tech for 15 years- it’s a great company that cares for its people. I think some of what you’re describing is just the nature of larger companies. The bigger the machine, the smaller the cog.
- More to this point, it comes down to who owns the company, meaning the shares. Fiduciary responsibility is a real thing and is responsible for some of the worst things going on in the world right now.
  
  Yep agreed and that why I want to exit the industry as even th3 end goal of a smaller company is to sell out to some investors or to get bought out by a larger company.
  I dont see any new tech company that genuinely cares and will not sell out but everyone has a price and that why I need to exit capitalism.
- Yep, I used to work for mid sized company and it was amazing, problem is no small(?) to mid size company seem to want to sponsor visas.
  
  Good point. I believe it’s $$$ and is tough for smalls. Best of luck on your search!

I've never worked for a for-profit company since I graduated college. There is variation in non-profit employers, but there are some that are great places to work.
I got a job at a university after graduation (different university than where I got my degree), and I worked there in different departments until I took a job in the university hospital. I've worked here for more than 25 years.
The pay tends to be a bit lower than what you'd get at a for-profit company, but not as bad as some would lead you to believe. I've been able to buy a home, raise a family, and live fairly comfortably.
The benefits are very good. There's a strong focus on education and growth, and work-life balance isn't just a lie they tell people in the interview.

I have a couple decades experience as a software engineer and manager. I don’t know if you’re ready to hear my answer, but here it is:
You might be in a bad situation, it’s hard to say with a single data point. There are bad bosses out there and it can be a nightmare, even at a good company. The “easy” fix is to try working on a different team or a different company and see if that solves the issue. Easy is in quotes because, as an immigrant, it may be tough to move to another employer.
The harder answer is to look inside yourself.
Your title asks about non-capitalistic companies. There are non-profits, but I don’t think capitalism is your problem here. You’re still going to run into problems at non-profits or even volunteering in open source if you aren’t able to integrate well with teams.
There are always going to be cultural expectations no matter where you go. The situation you described about having a 1:1 over asking questions suggests you either have an overly sensitive manager or your manager is right and you are not effective with your feedback. Asking questions can open up conversations or be used to bully people you disagree with.
The way you disagree matters. It’s not enough to be right, you need to persuade other people to be right too. As a manager, I’m focused on the team’s output and if one person is causing problems with the group dynamic, I’m going to address it.
I’m hiring right now and have passed on candidates who fall into the “brilliant jerk” stereotype. There’s research that shows that those types drag the rest of the team down. Remember, I’m focused on the entire team, so any one person needs to fit into that context.
If you find that your interpersonal skills need a boost, “How to Win Friends and Influence People” has good advice but it’s hard for some people to accept advice like “let other people be wrong when it doesn’t matter” and “compliment people.”
The other thing I’m reading in your post is that you may be burned out. The classic solutions for that are therapy, rest, exercise, and investing in life outside work. It’s hard to spot burnout sometimes, but check in with your support group.
So that’s 3 options forward: change your situation, improve your skills, or rest up and recover from burnout. Good luck.
- Thank you for your comment, I really appreciate you taking the time and your analysis, I'm not sure if its relavant but by th3 end of the 1 on 1 the director apologized to me when they realized that what i had asked actually furthered the conversation and that they were hurt that I would make that statement at the time and in that group as they felt I was just digging up old corpses, when they were explained my thought process and what I meant and what I asked and that the point of that statement was to ensure we dont fall into the same pitfalls again, I was calm and kind in the meeting. I do agree I think i have been burned out for a bit and this whole situation felt bad, and I do agree that this is an industry/employement thing that I can't really escape from.
  And the other thing is I dont want to have to influence people to do my job, I dont want to have to walk on eggshells if i need to get someyhig done I'm an engineer my job is to give you the logic and the solution, they are th3 managers/directors and they need to facilitate my job, not tell me that me asking about our environment strategy and avoiding teams in silos is something they should feel offended by.
- This is some of the best advice I've ever read on lemmy. Thank you!

No, there are not. Form a union, get contractually obligated dignity and respect.
- I don't think/know of a software engineers union and wouldn't k ow where to start, also as mentioned I'm on visa not sure if that affects anything.
  
  I don't think/know of a software union
  CWA and IATSE are both in the tech industry, CWA represents over 2000 employees in Microsoft alone.
  wouldn't know where to start
  CWA offers training!
  I'm on visa
  Labor law protects everyone in the US, not just citizens, but I will be honest and say that risks to you are higher than normal. Aggressive union busting is a risk every organizer has to take, but just remember that Mother Jones, and several union heroes, were immigrants too in an even more hostile environment.

but being pulled aside and being asked to kiss the ring felt disgusting.
You are absolutely right here. It is a very shitty boss. They can happen everywhere, but still not all are like that one.
I am an expert in my field, too, and I would have my way of withstanding such a guy. Not sure, however, if it is possible in Usa. I am in Germany.
are there still companies that exist in the USA or outside that still give a fuck about what they're doing and not just inflate that companies value
There are. At least here. The work culture is much better in general (but very different between companies), because such single specimen of asshole bosses are not that powerful here. Firing somebody is a regulated process, and things can be reviewed later by independent people, in the company or in court.
As long as companies are not that huge, they usually care better about what they are doing.
- I was looking into immigrating to Germany but the thing that a few people told me and caused me hesitation was the 55%(?) taxation rate that seemed high, and the language barrier I remembered back when I was in undergrad that Germany required you to learn the language and I found that intimidating at the time.
  
  55%(?) taxation rate
  Not true. But the real rates are quite complicated. Do not believe any simple statements to this :)
  Germany required you to learn the language
  All countries require that, unless you don't want to really live.
  
  Taxes are high in Germany, but then again you also don't pay for health insurance and get good public transportation. The calculation will probably turn out better than you'd expect, though nowhere will be quite as lucrative as America for tech.

Traditionally, there have been a few classes of companies in the U.S: C Corp, S Corp, LLC (Limited Liability Company) aka partnerships, and Closed. Most companies in the U.S. are organized as one of these, with their responsibility toward shareholders, who want to see their money grow.
If you wanted to work for a company that didn't necessarily have infinite growth as its mission, the only option was to find a Non-Profit, but they may not have the kind of funding to spend on legal visas.
In the last few years, two other types of companies have emerged. They're similar, but legally different: B-corp (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_Corporation_(certification)), and PBC or Public Benefit Corporation (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation).
These can be for-profit, but have to have a stated mission in their charter to provide a benefit of some sort to the public.
The links above point at some examples, but you may want to do your own research. Those companies may have the resources to pick up your visa, and may better align with the values you're looking for.
Ideally, and when able, your best bet would be to start your own business and set it up just the way you want.

There are non profits, that is about it for this capitalistic hell scape. You do not need to volunteer at them, plenty have actual jobs. They can't pay market rate, but more of a non profit rate, but it's not bad
- Yep I shall look into non profits and try my luck to see if I can land a job there.

Government services aren't company, and some do develop technology, place like US national institute of Health, or US NASA, or US department of Energy come to my mind, but any first world nation would have tons of similar things. As usual doesn't mean there is no bullshit to deal with (You know the saying about reserarcher main job is to look for fundings)
Then there is FOSS sofware some of them being managed by non profit who can afford to pay their developers
finally, there is a whole non profit/charity/coop part of the economy, and considering the weigh of technology, you may have some jobs linked to technology. (But managing let's say the "red cross ERP" sounds as awful as managing any other corporate ERP)
- Thanks for your reply, but I'm on visa not even green card and as such can't work for the government right now as they require you to either be a citizen or a green card holder with certain government clearances.

By definition, no. You can volunteer for a non profit, like the Linux foundation, but you won't make much money.
- Right, and in that case it would be best for me to move back home but the situation back home is quite dire, I have pressures from my parents to get married I'm 33 M from India and I'm hurdling towards my expiration date as it were in society, and the general situation in India insnt that great with religion and sex being the biggest points politicians exploit for a vote bank.
  
  Are you an H1b worker? Yeah, you were most likely brought over because you're easier to underpay and abuse. I'm sorry if that's the case.

To improve your work conditions you have to demand it for yourself. As long as workers allow it to happen, their bosses will do everything to increase profits on the expense of the workers. Unionising your workplace is the only secure way to gain back your power.
- While I agree with you, I can't really do that as any form of push back could eventually lead to.my dismissal, I'm on visa and as such I'm very expendable there's thousands to take my place if I slip up.
  
  Do you have coworkers with the same complaints and risks? I understand that it’s risky but I also don’t think there’s an alternative option as all companies eventually will use the same exploitative practices.

Generally in almost any setting, uncomfortable questions should only be asked in private.
- If it's about the person specifically, sure. Not when it's about a group effort like work.
  
  No really, if you have 1 on 1s with your manager, that's the right setting.
- I dont think what I asked was a sensitive question it was about environment strategy and avoiding teams working in silos, so I don't think it was something I needed to talk about / ask about in private, I do appreciate your perspective though.

44 comments