1y ago

Ukraine aid is dropped from government funding bill. That raises questions about future US support

apnews.com Ukraine aid is dropped from government funding bill. That raises questions about future US support

Congressional supporters of Ukraine say they won’t give up after a bill to keep the federal government open excluded President Joe Biden’s request for more security assistance for the war-torn nation.

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Show me a MAGA politician, and I’ll show you a person bought and sold by Russian interference.
- And I will show you how the second and third world wars started by a dictator doing a land grab and fucktard leaders doing nothing when they had a chance. If Ukraine does not win, WW3 is the inevitable outcome in the next 10 years. These are the people that cause the deaths of millions.
  
  Most of them won't be around in 10 years, so they don't care
  
  Most of the loudest, craziest, dumbest ones definitely will be.
  
  I agree.
  
  If only you thought the same about Turkey&Azerbaijan.
  No, whoever wins, it'll just show that brute force matters and everything else doesn't, be it for the Russian leadership or for that of any Western country.
  WWIII is already inevitable, in one way or another. And fuck everyone talking about realpolitik, because realpolitik is what got us here.
  Other than that, Ukraine is going to win or make the conflict frozen against Russia, with or without more support. Russia is not going to be a participant in that WWIII, not a major one anyway.
  
  World War 3 is always the inevitable outcome in the next 10 years.
- They can read the polls and can see that a plurality of voters seem to be against more aid.
  Edit: -72 is breddy good, I'm quite impressed at how
  resistant you guys are. It really IS the reddit experience.
  
  a plurality
  Yeah, about ten guys who were bought and sold by Russia and a couple thousand other folks that fell for their con. By no means a majority and also by no means a reasonable stance.
  
  https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/cnn-poll-ukraine/index.html
  Which sources: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23897329-cnn-ukraine-poll
  No... page 10&11 clearly states that you're wrong. It's effectively a 50/50 split on Ukraine war with an actual majority 45/55 split saying no more funding.
  
  These polls are as idiotic as the Brexit Referendum was.
  People have no fucking clue what's going on and they answer by their "gut feeling". So it's all down to the way the question is formed.
  And it's not a "yes" or "no" type of situation either.
  
  So your argument is what exactly? That the poll is flawed... so there isn't a majority or plurality? You realize that both for and against could have been answering by their "gut feeling"... a 50/50 split kind of proves the point that it's not just a few thousand like was claimed.
  Of course if you have a better source showing that Americans are happy with spending more money in Ukraine that's of higher quality I'm all ears.
  
  A 50/50 split also kind of proves that the answers are as thought out as a coin toss...
  
  So all 50/50 splits are coin toss decisions and not devisive topics? That's a hot take. Especially with n=1000+ polls.
  
  Polls with a 50/50 split, are a poll structural fail. It means the questions are too ambiguous, and the poll didn't control for it. A split of 40/40 with 20% "undecided"? That would be a credible divisive poll. A 50/50? No way.
  From the source you cited: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23897329-cnn-ukraine-poll
  Look at the "trends" section on page 3, "not sure" between 7% and 14%, those are credible numbers. Now look at pages 10&11, 0% to 1% "no opinion"? That's BS.
  
  So there's trends, meaning that these question (or types of questions) before weren't a problem... But magically... now it's a problem? And you have no other resources to corroborate your stance (since I asked for a better one and you've failed to provide).
  But now, since it's a much more divisive topic... it's ALL over the media... talked about nearly every day from both sides... You think that the 7-14% wouldn't diminish at all? Hell giving you the 14% doesn't change the equation we're looking at here... It's still a Plurality, just not a straight majority. But even at 45/55 I wouldn't call it a straight majority.
  It's funny because the pg 12 shows 2-5% "Don't know" responses. and page 9 shows up to 3%. But that's not the point... Even if we take the sampling error rate AWAY from the "anti-Ukrainian aid" side of this debate and give it to the "pro-Ukranian aid" outright... It's STILL a plurality at the very least and still a slim majority at that. 49% vs 51%... Even if we double or triple or quadruple that error rate to 39%... it's STILL a large amount of Americans (certainly qualifying for "Plurality") who feel that additional monetary aid isn't warranted. But the real litmus test is reading the questions yourself. Really don't see how
  "15a. Do you think Congress should or should not authorize additional funding to support Ukraine in the war with Russia? " is ambiguous.
  My point all along is that Plurality is a correct term here, yet was downvoted to hell... And even being absurdly generous to your argument we still see that's accurate. If you can find BETTER data then I'm all ears. But up to this point you haven't... and quite frankly your arguments were weak as we can see that even skewing the data in your favor MANY times over, it's still accurate to say that a plurality of Americans do not want to spend more money over there.
  And before you start claiming I have some bias. I'm a dual citizen and hold a Polish citizenship. I'm not a stranger to Russia bullshit. But even Poland, who took in MILLIONS (doing well more than any other country) of refugees is starting to wear down and refuse aid to Ukraine.
  
  My argument is that linking a shitty poll that paint the issue in black or white does nothing to help to paint the picture of public opinion on the russia's attack on Ukraine and how people feel about it.
  
  Can you show how the poll is misrepresenting it as a black/white issue?
  Do you have ANY better statistical resource?
  
  Can you show how the poll is misrepresenting it as a black/white issue? I can, but you don't seem to be genuinely interested, so I'm not going to waste my time.
  Do you have ANY better statistical resource? No, but sometimes no resource is of more quality than a misleading poll.
  
  I can, but you don’t seem to be genuinely interested, so I’m not going to waste my time.
  Sounds like that's a no then...
  No, but sometimes no resource is of more quality than a misleading poll.
  If you can provide any evidence that it's misleading... I'll take it. But you've failed to do so and continue to whinge about it even though you've got nothing better to replace the poll as evidence.
  
  I don't respond well to sealioning, my dear random keyboarder.
  
  The majority support Ukraine. Fuck off Russian bot.
  
  "someone said something I don't understand, they must be pro-Russian"
  Flawless logic, kiddo.
  ?
  
  Fuck off. You say something pro russian and then cry when people call you pro russian
  
  Stating an obvious reason that democratically elected officials might have an opinion is pro-Russian.
  I guess that elections are also undemocratic?
  You're a loon and I thank you for helping me grow my Blocklist.
  
  This Putin bootlicker is too stupid to realize he's helping America's long-term enemy. He thinks he's an American patriot, but he's actually just a Russian simp.
- More likely to be bought by the International Democrat Union than by Russians.
  
  To my knowledge IDU policies are in support of Ukraine.
  
  They're more in support of right wing policy than they are of Ukraine, though.
  
  That's true, but they have just invited (former Ukrainian pro-EU president) Poroshenko to their honorary advisory board. I do not think this is pro-Russia stand.
  
  The IDU doesn't care about Ukraine except insofar as it is a pawn to push right-wing ideology abroad.
  
  I agree that their focus is center-right ideology, not war in Ukraine. But they do not support Russia, and those rare statements that they do (and the actions like inviting Poroshenko) shows that in this question they are on Ukraine side. There is more "politicking" than just Russo-Ukranian war. Walmart also is not focused on Russo-Ukranian war, does it make it pro-Russia and converting MAGA politicians to pro-Russia stand?

132 comments