I keep seeing this sentiment here lately, yet no evidence that it happened on a meaningful scale is ever presented.

Which Lemmy voter actively campaigned for Trump?

lemmy people who actively campaigned for trump

Liar.

This is sort of strawmanning some of the criticism. Leftists who held up nonvoting as some kind of magic bullet for gaza definitely seem like they are dumber than rocks for thinking nonvoting is the same as strategic voting.

However, There's a bunch of like consultants and dem strategists that have clung to this to scapegoat these people as though there wasn't a long chain of massive errors dems and their braindead consultants weren't heavily involved in.

At the end of the day just stop listening to "not voting is a moral stance" people and put fires under the real culprits: lying republican media and apathetic democrat politicians

It's the Palestinian Muslim Leftists who have completely overrun our beloved liberal institutions and undermined them. These tankies are the fifth column that brought Harris's glorious march to office down from the inside.

We clearly need to purge our companies, our schools, and our political organizations of anyone who resembles, aligns with, or appears to look like a Palestinian or a Leftist sympathizer.

We absolutely must do this in order to Beat Trump. You do want to Beat Trump, don't you?

Look, it's time to take stock and move ahead, we need to focus on the here and now and try to do some good, and prevent some bad.

To that end, I recommend that both liberals and leftists focus on performatively scolding imaginary interlocutors from the other group over semi anonymous forums.

Neither party runs presidential primaries when their guy is incumbent. It's almost superstitious, that having someone 'primary' your incumbent is going to make them lose (because of losses under those circumstances by Ford, Carter, and Bush Sr.

Of course the cause/effect is backwards, they were primaried because their administration was at risk, they weren't at risk because of the primary, but as superstitions go...

They stopped running primaries because they almost lost control of the party to Bernie Sanders in 2016.

The DNC will never make that mistake again. It made their doners very upset.

Biden: doesn't invade Gaza

Genocide Joe crowd after Trump cleanses Gaza: But did you think about how this is Joe Bidens fault?

It's clear that Israel has major sway with the US. We were not gonna stop them no matter who was in charge. I think Joe did as much as he could without pissing off our corporate overlords but him ending the conflict was never gonna happen.

I’m not sure the incessant chorus of 'I told you so’s is really helping the cause.

I've heard so much MSNBC bigotry in the last month.

"Palestinians cost us the election!"

"Trans people cost us the election!"

"Hispanics cost us the election!"

"Everyone under 40 cost us the election!"

This is typically followed by some sickeningly smug "I hope they enjoy what they get" from the most vile and repulsive insider slime the party has to offer. And now Dem Leadership is just throwing up its hands, insisting Trump's just a dictator now and there's nothing any of them can do.

Hell, the fucking CIA - the agency that exists to topple foreign governments - seems equally indolent and feckless. So, idk. Maybe saying "I told you so" isn't impacting the cause one way or another.

Yes, because hopefully if we point out how much not voting has hurt us and everyone else, these dimwits will actually choose the lesser evil next time instead of letting the greater evil win

Too late to say anything now that you've helped elect the orange felon. Too bad you couldn't stfu before and steered a significant amount of people to vote for the cunt as a protest vote. Enjoy the alternative.

You spent a year criticising your own side and supporting a "both sides" narrative. You can't now pretend that you were trying to help the dems get elected.

There are literally commenters all over this thread (about Trumps intention to invade gaza), who believe Trump will produce a better outcome for Palestinians.

And we (informed voters) spent a year and a half painting you a very detailed picture of what was going to happen if you didn’t suck it up and do what was necessary to keep a rapist traitor out of the White House. Hell.. even HE spent a year and a half telling you exactly what he was going to do.

Remember Project 2025? Yeah… that is the actual name of what’s happening right now.

Sooo…..

What the fuck are we supposed to say?

Start with: “I’m sorry” and work from there. Because anything short of this is unacceptable.

🤡

Its difficult because the dems 100% were enabling genocide. But, crazy enough, there's bad and worse genocide.

People who protest vote think they're "showing the dems" when they don't vote. Maybe the dems lose now but they learn a painful lesson and change in the future.

But here's the thing. The dems would rather lose to republicans than change. They will eat your protest vote. And they will accept they lost power for 4 years. And then they get re-elected and go back to what they were doing before. Being greedy and taking money from lobbyist as much as possible, including AIPAC, but not outright malicious. They never change because people only vote centrist dem or further right.

And them dems suck. They're bad. But Republicans? They're worse. They aren't doing genocide just for the profits. They're also doing it for the fun of it. The dems will show some restraint to avoid war with Iran. The Republicans won't.

So the protest vote won't show the dems shit. It will just unleash unapologetic genocide instead of milquetoast genocide. And while they're at it, the republicans will tank the economy and fuck up the lives of every minority they can manage.

Work within the constraints of the first past the post voting system you have while working toward ranked choice or something more functional.

Joe offered me Vanilla Ice Cream, but I prefer Strawberry, so to spite Joe I took Donald's offer to let him piss in my mouth...

You were warned what Trump wanted to do, and now he's turning Palestine into a Trump Resort

Wat? Pretty much everybody said this.

You are technically correct, in a way that would make Hermes Conrad blush. It is true, that nobody said "Trump will fix everything." itsonlygeorge didn't say that anyone literally said that exact phrase. It's an exaggeration of the actual verbal abuse we've been subject to for the last year or so.

You can literally browse my comment history and see that many many people said this to me.

As a fellow reluctant Harris voter, what upsets me the most is that the numbers people have run shows that no, actually, genocide was not the deciding factor in this election, which is kind of an indictment of America itself, but regardless, I'm sick of leftists being blamed when all the ones I know STILL voted Harris and the data shows that it wasn't leftist that didn't turn out, it was centrists. Harris didn't have a voter base. Sure, some dems turned out, but she didn't actually inspire people to vote, and that's basically the only way dems win.

Remember when the Dems thought they could win while actively telling people who were anti genocide to go fuck themselves?

I do, and was downvoted for calling it out from my last account, and this one for remembering it.

Are these people gaslit or are they doing it for their favorite political celebrities who don't know they exist or care for them?

voting is power, hell not voting is power. is it a fair system?

fuck no, but not voting did help get us here

disclaimer: gerrymandering and voter suppression also played a huge role

You know who committed genocide?

Stalin killed thousands of Poles. The USA had lynchings going on all through WW2. I'm not even going to start on the UK.

And they were all better alternatives than Hitler.

It has, it's been a conspiracy on lemmy for the past 6 months. Any time anyone criticized Biden or Harris for aiding a genocide someone would pop up and say they're a secret republican or Russian bot.

Wasn't the idea to get the Democrats to explicitly state they were a anti genocide and promise policies to back that up?

It has, constantly. Anyone who disagrees with you folks is labelled a Russian bot who wants Trump to win. Even if they fall in line they were labelled that way, just for saying things like, "I'll vote for Biden but his age is a legitimate concern."

It absolutely was. And it was pushed by tiktok, a Chinese psyop.

It’s also obvious that Trump and BB were coordinating during the election to ensure Biden couldn’t get a ceasefire deal in place in order to harm him politically

And Biden played right into their hands.

I thought the ceasefire happened under Biden, but after the election had already been lost?

Why the fuck did the democrats leave Palestinians to their tracks?

This didn't have to be a difficult problem where we're forced to vote for genocide. The only people at fault for the democrats doing something as wildly unpopular as genocide, silencing anyone who said "You need to stop this if you want to win", and reaping the effects of that policy being unpopular are the democrats.

I suspected that many of the accounts were Russian plants or Trump supporters trying to divide the Democrat vote. Most of the time when I checked account age they were made either that day or the day before.

I know that Lemmy is new and all but still was sus.

I haven't gone back to accounts to see if they are still active. I suspect that they aren't.

Calling it simplified does a disservice of the real world impacts of the "trolley" - especially since unlike a thought experiment - this trolley problem is physically constructed by people to achieve imperialistic goals - so expending energy blaming random lemmings for this - instead of figuring out who built, maintains and presents the trolley as the only option and how to dismantle it seems useless.

I believe we should avoid infighting and actually organize to do something so we don't have to choose if we pull the lever or not every 4 years (if there even is another election..)

It's almost like single-issue voters aren't very good at logic problems…

I find it scary how easily people where fine with having genocide on both sides of the ticket.

You're an idiot and the reason Trump won and is ruining the country. Congrats you enlightened centrist. Stupid fuck

nobody is absolving Harris. She was the lesser evil, and many people chose not to choose, resulting in the greater evil anyways.

Blaming other people and feeling superior is how Democrats win! Aren't you paying attention? Hey, where are they taking us??!

Go protest, resist being part of that genocide by laying down work. Call or write your local representatives voice your opinion and ask how you can help to stop that.

Get ready to vote Dem really hard in 2028 /s

There aren't many options... Which is probably why op is blaming non-voters, who are complicit in creating our current situation.

Unironically, there's people that blame Hitler on the German communists for not bending the knee to the people who sicced literal death squads on them, kill lists and everything, less than two decades prior.

The system is fucked but we exist within that system.

That's the thing American citizens/voters need to remember if/when we get past this term: Trump didn't do this by himself. He was enabled and empowered by Republican (and a significant number of Democrat) members of legislation, as well as crooked judges across every level from state to Supreme. Trump will be kicked out and Republicans will say "Phew, that guy was a disaster! Right, guys? Good thing we all worked together and survived it." And we can't just let them do it; everyone currently serving in office from the GOP and 60% (if I'm being very generous to the remainder) of the Democrats should be barred from holding office again. Extend that to the judges too.

The GOP has worked hard to sew shite into every strand of the fabric that binds the nation together. And so insiduously that many idiots will stare at a shite-brown rag and say it's still the same, ol' Red, White, and Blue they remember.

So, yes, if you were in front of the trolley lever, you’d remark “Wow, this system is fucked. Why do we even have trolleys? Shouldn’t they have brakes?”

…and then not pull the lever.

I'd rather have someone watch me fight a bear then have them help the bear by shooting me, and the rest of my family, repeatedly while I fight it. So yeah really would've been a lot better.

Can't help but notice this. Turns out, the communist plot to destroy America was the billionaires we made along the way.

the hostile corporate takeover is in full effect in the USA. The downfall of America is happening in realtime at an accelerated rate. Capitalism will be the downfall of whatever democracy was left in the US.

"The unprecedented attack on October 7th." is here to justify Israel slaughtering tens of thousands of starving civilians.

of the empire.

I thought sun already set on that

They had a bazillion complaints (and still get them) that they report the figures at all and that they don't treat Hamas being a terrorist organisation as a statement of fact. For a couple of weeks after the October the 7th attack, the reporting was more neutral, and the whole rest of the British press was up in arms about the BBC being antisemitic, and the current situation was the compromise that calmed it down. In a world where Israel having done nothing wrong ever is somehow part of the Overton window, this is what counts as impartial. Impartiality is a bad thing when it's forced to apply to viewpoints divorced from reality.

One of the newsreaders said after leaving that they could easily find 60 economists willing to say brexit would be disastrous, and 1 saying it would be good. Come the show, they'd present one of each to demonstrate balance, but it was very lopsided. Before he went mental, they had Graham Linehan and his wife on a current affairs show to tall about the stress of getting an abortion in Ireland. The producers were then lambasted for not having a pro-abortion person on.

Definitely agree with you there. In an effort to appear balanced they try and present different sides of an argument as if they're both valid. I guess that's how Farage got on so much.

"Both the Palestinians and Israelis are saying they are being treated unfairly. This means we are treating both fairly". - enlightened centrist after Biden refuses to send one shipment of 2000 pound bombs to Israel.

that is not sound logic

We still litigating this?

Others might. I am not. I would like to know if people are still identifying as #Undecided, and if it is still a movement. If yes, what's the plan to influence Trump's policies on Palestine? If no, is it because they met their goals and thus came to a natural end, or is it because they feel they were played? And if that's the case, where does that leave the leaders and influencers of the #Undecided movement within the larger Free Palestine movement?

If I came across as brusque, it is because I am frustrated. As shitty as Biden was (I'd like to see him clapped in irons and sent to the Hague, along with Netanyahu and his cronies), how can it be seriously mooted that the administration sending bombs and insisting on a two-state solution is somehow equivalent to the present administration who is sending bombs AND has stated it wants to "clear out" Gaza AND wants American companies to build resorts on Palestinian soil AND wants to send American troops to occupy Palestine AND moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem AND so on?

They stayed home because either choice felt like doom, and probably felt they didn't want to participate in either.

This is the false equivalency trap they were led into.

Neither side was supporting their cause, but one side was supporting Israel while trying to push for getting aid into the country, and the other side literally said Israel wasn't killing Palestinians fast enough. You have to be a special kind of dumb to think those two things are the same.

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. By not voting, they contributed to the win of the candidate who thinks Palestine shouldn't exist.

Yes, I absolutely hold those people accountable, for this and every other action he takes. Sitting on the sidelines is immoral. Not participating because they couldn't get exactly the outcome they wanted isn't ethically defensible. The system is the way it is until we who are working to change it succeed (which may be never), and until then you pick the lesser of two evils, because not voting isn't going to prevent the election.

Maybe they argue that by not voting they "sent a message." Ok, maybe they did. As a consequence, the cost of their message is likely to be the extinction of Palestine.

Many of us tried to "send a message" in 2000, and it changed nothing; those of us who voted for a third party in protest are directly culpable for the war in Iraq and the continued expansion of the Republican agenda in courts and state legislature through two terms.

The protest voters, and protest non-voters, in 2024 participated in what's to come.

The most infuriating thing about this is that it seems nobody learned anything from WWII. This is like Ghandi preaching passive resistance to German Jews; I have no respect for these people who refused to take a side knowing full well that one candidate was a worse outcome for Palestine.

they just wanted to be recognized

Well they got their wish. They are certainly recognized now.

If we buy into the idea that the situation in Palestine would be exactly the same, that means not voting for Harris because of Palestine was choosing all of the other horrible shit Trump is doing for zero benefit to Palestine.

Really showed them Dems!

Sadly some of them were just single issue idiots with half a braincell

earth: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/musk-cronies-dive-into-treasury-dept-payments-code-base