3w ago

Who to ban and who to not

Edit: I've gone and done it. This won't be a common occurrence but I think it is necessary for some users. Hopefully this won't bite me in the ass lmao. Thanks for helping everyone!

Hey everyone. On privacy I generally recognize a lot of people, most are good. But occasionally I encounter someone who I've seen say horrible shit. This is about one:

Mainly they've said some incredibly racist shit, including about my race >:(. Of course I'd ban them, but they said all of this outside the community. I feel it's odd to ban people I don't like for their behavior outside the community.

I've gone pretty lax modding, only banning if you said really shitty stuff only on my community. But I don't want to build a community filled with these types of people.

I also don't want the community to have a bad reputation of banning people I don't like but this guys a known racist.

I'm feeling very conflicted, can anyone help?

PS: the things he said was about Arabs being murderers and rapists. And some racism to Slavs too

48 comments

I was the most trigger happy reddit mod back in the day but banning people for offences in other communities was something even I didn’t do. But if it’s what you say it is then that’s irrelevant.
Racism should break any civilised instance rules so report it for abuse to the admin. If it’s one of the more controversial instances that lemm.ee federates with you might consider that as a sign that federation policy might be the problem.
- I was the most trigger happy reddit mod back in the day but banning people for offences in other communities was something even I didn’t do. But if it’s what you say it is then that’s irrelevant.
  Damn, I'm evolving to a reddit mod lol
  But the instance itself is fine. I didn't think reporting to the instance since most instances allow the shittiest people, no matter how much they are hated or infamous for it. But I'll try. If it didn't work then too bad, it'll be out my hands then. Thanks

I would ban racist and rude people. Racists forever. Rude maybe a week or so.
- Yeah, I do that too. But what if they say this stuff is said outside the community, not inside? This is kind of where it gets muddy for me.
  Theyve said this type of stuff multiple times, but I feel like I have to set standards for myself.
  
  Imo, not your community, not your problem. The second they do it in your community, then deal with it as you see fit. You're only responsible for moderating your community.
  
  Maybe draw a line between what is bannable inside versus outside?

I say go for it.
Imagine you were the manager of a coffee shop. There's some dude who walks around town all the time wearing a Nazi uniform. You've seen him around.
One day, the guy shows up at your coffee shop, wearing regular everyday street clothes, but you absolutely recognize him as Nazi Uniform Guy. Everyone else in your coffee shop also recognizes him as Nazi Uniform Guy, and a non-zero number of your regular patrons would obviously be threatened by Nazis.
Get the fuck out of my coffee shop.
- I forgot about the nazi bar situation :D
  Yeah I think I'm going with it. Thanks for the advice!

If you're running a community on an instance that doesn't ban obvious racists at the instance level then your community is on the wrong instance.
IMO YMMV etc
- Its db0, if he's was on it he would be banned in a heartbeat lol
  He's on a trusted instance too but for some reason he's allowed with open arms (even with members of the Fediverse :/) ive banned him and I'll see about reporting him. Thanks btw :)

I say ban 'em. A reputation for banning racists is a positive reputation.
- That's what I wanted to do but it seems most have a negative view of this, and obviously if most see a policy they don't like in a community they'll just leave.
  To put in perspective this guy said Arabs rape and murder. I myself am an Arab so I am less than happy at that.
  
  If the majority of people are opposed to racists getting banned, then you've got a bigger problem in your community than just a single racist.

I feel it’s odd to ban people I don’t like for their behavior outside the community.
If you're polite in my house, but I hear you're talking shit behind my back, you're not welcome in my house anymore.

Most of the time it's a bad idea to ban people based on behaviour outside your "turf", but there are some exceptions - and this is clearly one of them, the mere presence of the user in your community is bound to make it less safe to the others.
- Yeah, that seems to be the general consensus. I also banned him, hopefully this won't cause a controversy since there are a lot of people who disagree.
  
  I don't think that it will cause a controversy; almost all Lemmy hates racists. And it's fine as long as you're 1) consistent with who you ban, and 2) transparent on why you do it.
  And, like, there's always that bitter taste in the mouth when you ban someone, but as you see the comm thriving it makes you think "I did the right thing".

I feel it’s odd to ban people I don’t like for their behavior outside the community.
My 2 cents is that one moderates what happens in a community, not what happens in the world outside it.
I also don’t want the community to have a bad reputation of banning people I don’t like but this guys a known racist.
I don't know yours, but I would quit a community where mods would decide it's their duty to police the world.
There are many people I do not like, even a few I despise, but that's just my feelings and emotions and my feelings don't grant me any right to punish them in any way. Edit: unless they do something in the community I moderate that does not respect the community rules, obviously. But the key idea here is they must do it in the community, what they do elsewhere is none of my business.
- Counterpoint: I do ban people who display that kind of behavior elsewhere. It's more of a precautionary "Don't bring that shit here".
  Think of it like each community is a bar/club on the same street. The bouncer out front sees the same person going from club to club acting all drunk and obnoxious and causing problems. I feel it's that bouncer's right to deny entry into my club when they're fully aware that the same obnoxious drunk is being problematic elsewhere.
  So, I'm not policing the world, just observing it. And sometimes I see things in the world that are best kept out. Mind you, this isn't because they say things I disagree with personally. It's patterns of behavior and general toxicity that, if/when they do bring that here, will be a problem.
  Just my two cents.
- That's also what I was concerned about. Thanks for your input :)
  
  You're welcome.
  BTW, it's also clear that it can be difficult to not react when facing an asshole of some sort, but I think that's one of the main thing that make us different from them: our ability to not let our emotions dictate our (re)actions. That doesn't mean we should like them, not even a little bit ;)

Depends on the severity of the offense. Don't wait for Nazis to specifically start Nazi-ing in your community, kick 'em out ASAP. Anything less than that though, probably let it slide.

Are you the sole moderator of whatever comm you're talking about? Maybe you should talk to some of the other people who are active in the community, see if they are interested in helping mod, and decide together what the right course of action is.
Alternatively this is your chance to lay a few ground rules and then point to them when this behavior comes up again. Make it clear that human decency isn't optional and that you won't allow others to be trampled on just for a little bit of traffic in the community. This gives whoever may need it a chance to curb that behavior instead of immediately lowering the boom on them, and shows the rest of the community that you aren't going after people on a personal vendetta.
- No but I'll see about it.
  As for your second suggestion; I'm not going to comb through users history, so i cant explicitly nake a rule saying: if you say racist shit in any other community youre banned here too. but I recognize this guy and safe to say he's a shitty person.
  Thanks for the advice too!
  
  The odds of someone only behaving that way in certain communities is probably slim to none. I'd just make sure you have clear rules in place so that if you ever have to take action against those types of people you aren't immediately put on blast for power tripping or whatever.
  
  you don't have to investigate everybody, and that would be a ton of work anyway, but if you're on the fence for a mod action then glancing at how they behave in general could infirm you of a pattern.

Whatever you decide, I wouldn't stress about it too much.
Part of the advantage of the Fediverse is that it does not have or benefit from any one moderation policy, but has many different moderation policies that can appeal to many different types of people.
Regarding this individual case, I would make sure you look at the context and spirit of that users actions. On one extreme, they could be throwing abuse at fellow users and being intentionally destructive in an unsuitable place.
On the other extreme, they could be participating in a shitpost community and speaking more sarcastically, just going for shock value.
There's a whole range between these two extremes. Where you end up drawing the line is entirely up to you and what sort of instance you want to run.
- the guy has a huge modlog. heres the comment i was talking about (theres much more but im too tired to paste) he's also said this about russians (not russia mind you, citizens):
  what genocide? arabs attack, rape, and murder, then esconce the terrorists directly in and between civilian populations for the sole reason so that when israel responds the body count can be escalated and used as public relations. genocide. shame on you.

I agree with your decision. You should be able to personally block a brazen bigot. They made the decision to say what they said. If it was ambiguous bigotry, sure, give them leeway if you want. But it doesn't sound like they're trying to have a good faith conversation.

How do people ban people who've never visited their community? Tho not OP's exact situation, I've been banned from communities that I have never even posted in.
And I'd like to repay the favor to the mods who did it, but I don't see an option on how to do that.
- I don't think it's possible. They must participate before they can be banned
  
  So how have I been banned from communites that I've never visited or heard of?
  !pleasantpolitics@slrpnk.net. has a bot that just bans people based on downvotes on other instances. and it's people who have never been to his community. Go read the modlog there, it's crazy lmao https://lemm.ee/modlog/1068967

I'm just glad that there is finally a banning question that's not about me!! :)
I personally think it's bad form to ban someone from your community for things said outside the community.
- Personally I'm not too fond of people saying my entire race only rapes and kills. The decision has been made now

Honestly, the stuff people complain about on Lemmy is a bit ridiculous. I know it's not a popular opinion so probably no point mentioning it here, but... Yeah. People freak out about the smallest things.
Stuff like "misinformation" (person is having an opinion that is not based on science), or "ableism" (person is making a joke about stupid people).
Haven't seen any real racism on Lemmy, but lots of people who think personal opinions about people from another race is racism. Like "the Indians I have met have been very quiet" = racism. :)
- No the stuff he said is calling Arabs murderers and rapists. He also said some pretty racist stuff about Russians (not Russia, the people themselves)
  He's done this shit multiple times :/

48 comments