1w ago

It's a good group!

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I am a huge Warhammer 40k fan and I once met someone who was also a 40k fan. Dude said he played Imperium cause he was (and he said this with zero irony) a "human supremacist." Genuinely though the Imperium were good guys. I feel like it's needless to say, but I stopped talking to him.

I was briefly into 40k in the 00s, but once the 2010s started I slowly started getting an ick feeling from it but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
specifically, I was still cool with most of the lore, but the Imperium fanboys were getting to be unfun to be around. As I got older and wised up, I figured out around the same time many others did, that these same people just had a fascism fetish in general.
so with all that said.
Death to the false emperor Let the galaxy burn BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
- As someone who likes the Space Marines, but hates Nazis and understands that Warhammer 40k is satire, I'm greatly saddened by the Fascism fan boys in the community.
  
  The 80s 40k is satire. That ship sailed long, long ago tho.
- I also played around the same time as you, but by total chance almost our entire group played xenos. I was craftworlds and harlequins, there was a necron player, a tau player, a tyranids player, and an orks player. We had one space marine player, I had a very small grey knights army, the necron guy had a small guard army, and a couple of chaos players. It was quite jarring to see how much GW and the hobby at large focussed on the Imperium
  
  i never even got to the play stage. I got frustrated with the cost of materials, and having to learn how to paint, it was like trying to run 2 hobbies at once. ended up selling my stuff. so my interest was mostly video games. and still then, theres only a handful of 40K games I liked
  tried it again in the later 2010s, same effect, i wont make the mistake a 3rd time.
  
  yeah played as a child, first lotr, then fantasy and then a little bit of 40k
  for 40k i had a space marine army because they where in the starter box and i liked the bolters, but besides the generic space marines (which could be painted in any color sceme you liked) there where just the wolf chapter (grey wolfs or something?) and the blood angles back then, the other armies where all different races and in my local gw every faction was present.
  but a year ago i dusted off my collection, got back into lotr (now mesbg), it was always my main game, but also took a look at the warhammer stuff on the gw website:
  More then half the fucking 40k factions are now different flavors of space marines! What happened to coming up with own lore for your space marine chapter/color scheme?
  There are now even space marines in fantasy! WTF?! (Stormcast Eternals)
- Prosper like Tau shall.
- I played Imps and I still cannot wrap my head around people thinking the empire is the good guy. The appeal to me is that they are normal people pulled into an unfair and cruel world led by people who are entirely indifferent to their suffering. The best IG stories always involve a lot of infighting.
  These days I don't really tell people I am into it.
- It sounds like most people who are really into superhero comics, then start to question the whole "let these elites fight for their brand of justice without the consent of anyone else" and then you wonder what your principles are.
  Mine currently swing between "huh, maybe elites with a good code of conduct is a net win" and "huh, maybe anarchy is ideal form of state".

They only people I know who play 40k are obsessed with Orks. Dunno what kind of person that makes them, but at least they aren't nazis.
- It might be the same phenomenon as bimbofication / puppygirl stuff, where one longs to be released from the responsibility of thinking
  
  Also known as "Waaaaaaagh"
  
  where one longs to be released from the responsibility of thinking
  
  We got football, pints and coke for that, mate
  Wait a minute
- The lore around 40k Orks is hilarious
- That makes them fun
- If I were a 40k player I would a Necron simp.
- It's my understanding that orks are the most luck based faction, so they are either chill people or cheaters that fix dice rolls.

It's quite simple really.
If they play the Death Korps of Krieg, who look like
they're probably really nice people.
- The funny thing is that they are closer to soviet ideology then nazi. It's a pitty because if you understand 40k they are the poster boys for how fucked up and insane the galaxy is.
- Wouldn't everyone playing as the Black Templars also be a red flag?

join good group
look inside
neo-nazis

I need that diagram.
- Same

So as someone who isn't too familiar with Warhammer, why are Nazis drawn to it? I know a few people that are alt-right, headed toward Neo-Nazi territory, that are all deeply into Warhammer. Is it like another Punisher situation?
- I don't know much about it either, but in general conservatives and the right at large have no media literacy. Everything is shallow and face value to them. They see pro military crushing stuff deemed "lesser" and they basically get off on it.
  It's the same reason for right wing star trek fans. They see space military and ignore all the themes and other things like the fact there is no capitalism. It's always pushed left ideas, yet only now it's "gone woke" because it's pushing modern left ideas, not stiff they've learned to ignore.
  Just look at any media made by conservatives for conservatives. It's terrible and the kind of wish fulfillment youd expect from a child telling a story.
- I'm not too knowledgable on all the lore, but iirc:
  Space Marines are engineered supersoldiers who see humans as puny livestock
  The leader is an emperor, also known as god-emperor, whose word is law
  Pretty much all of their technological advancements exist to kill/control
  Their creed is basically to eradicate all non-believers (heretics) and non-humans (unless the non-humans can benefit them)
  Slavery is pretty much the standard for punishing people who oppose the god-emperor (if not death)
  A lot of other things
  Basically, the entire main faction is a hyper-fascist, fundamentalist, imperial, and ultra-violent organization. A lot of the other factions operate with a similar amount of cruelty and violence.
  The point is that no faction in Warhammer can really be known as "the good guys." I always perceived the 40k universe as a caricature of some of the worst aspects of mankind, but I play along as a cog in the machine, knowing it's bad. Neo-nazis tend to perceive the Astartes/Space Marines as glorious heroes. It's akin to alt-righters enjoy Starship Troopers and Rage Against the Machine, without recognizing the irony.
- The humans in that scenario are a group of super "racist" anti-xeno, ultra religious fascists. So less a punisher situation (which is just moron right wingers not being familiar with the source material, where punisher actually kills those things blue line corrupt cops) and more of a moron right wingers not understanding satire and taking things too seriously, thinking humans are the good guys, despite being clearly terrible.
- The Imperium is a blatant dry satire of authoritarian bigotry, and it turns out authoritarian bigots are immune to satire. Goes clean over their pointy little heads.
- Neo-nazi nowadays just means "people I don't like and, or disagree politically", WH40K tends to push the envelope and it's edgy and over the top too, also being very conservative in its setting to the point of extremism (entirely justified in-universe), Blue sky (formerly Twitter) progressives not knowing how to separate fiction from reality tend to think and subsequently label the fans as "nazis" thinking they spouse the same ideology as the Imperium of Man (the "good" human faction). Is there Neo-Nazis among the fandom? Sure, but it's more of a "Moustache-man drank water too" kind of situation.

I remember when one of the few games workshop stores that existed opened by me years ago so I went in to take a look. Everyone was nice and the worker there gave me a free primed mini fig. But the most memorable thing was the unwavering stench of body odor in the air

GI Robot: "Oh boy..."
- Are we going to kill Nazis?

Guess I'm lucky. My LGS plays a variety of factions and does little beyond tossing old meme quotes around all day.

If you ask someone if they are Nazis, and their answer is to get confused and ask about the premise of the question, there is about a 90% chance they are Nazis. Non-Nazis will say, "What? No, definitely not."
- If you ask someone who isn't a Nazi if they're a Nazi out of nowhere then confusion seems pretty valid. If there's a premise to it that they understand (by being Nazis or acting like ones) you'd get less genuine confusion.
  E: I wasn't talking about the specific case in OP but in general
  
  If the context is 40k, definitely not an unexpected question.
  
  Yeah but even if there's some initial confusion, most normal people will get to a clear negative answer pretty quickly.
  
  Meh depends on the setting. My partner and I are organizing smaller concerts from time to time. If we are about to book an unknown band sooner or later we have to ask the Nazi question.
  The setting here feels similar.
- Tbf, if someone asked to join my discord server and asked if we're Nazis I would also ask for further clarification. Not because there's a chance we might be Nazis but because it's an odd question.
  
  I'd be wondering ehat did I do to make them think I might be on a Nazi Discord server lol. I get you.
- Non-Nazis will say, "What?
  This is also 'getting confused', to be fair, lol.
  I get the impression that even those agreeing with the Nazi-like stuff are not literally self-identifying as "Nazi", so I think you'll get that initial "huh" reaction regardless.
  Might be better to ask a more specific telltale question.
  
  I mean if they go "well the left calls anyone they don't like nazis, what even is a nazi", they're a nazi.
- I would also accept "did you just call me a fucking nazi?"
- This is the answer right here.

Always amazing when people don't get satire.
My Dad actually thought Starship Troopers was pro-military.
- The book is pro military, the movie is a very intentional satire.
  
  The book is super pro military; arguably it's a political science treatise arguing about the nature of the monopoly of violence and, given that concept, how society inevitably flows. He also throws a few digs in there at communism.
  He then dedicates the rest of the book to figuring out the training and doctrinal approaches of literal space marines.
- How?
  That movie has the subtlety of a brick to the head
  
  Because the dad read the book, and hasn't seen the movie.
  The book definitely is pro-military.
  
  Half of America has the literacy of a 5-6th grader. They can understand the words, but not the "deep"er meaning of things. If it's not explicitly spelled out by name, they won't connect the dots.
  If you'll recall, their defense of the quid pro quo during the Ukraine impeachment was that he never used the phrase quid pro quo, so he could have done that.
  They're that stupid
  
  So did The Boys and Helldiver's 2, and yet a substantial population of conservatives took it literally. Now The Boys has to be so blatant, it's not as funny anymore.
  Some people are just idiots, just the way it is.
  
  They see the part that gives them a confirmation bias and willfully ignore the rest of the message.
  As the saying goes: Spread the facts on the floor like a fan, and throw away the ones that make you feel bad.
  
  I'd like to know more.
  In all seriousness though, I thought it had some aspects of good, which was odd given that it's satirical commentary on fascism. For instance, gender didn't really matter and women were promoted, and while the shower scene was meant to show how fascism castrates the masses (or something like that, iirc), I thought it was a relatively wholesome scene, all things considered.
  
  A brick to the head...
  Good idea.
- So, I have read and been told this many times before. Some times I will rewatch the movie to try and see that narrative. And I'll admit, I'm and idiot. But I can't get past the idea of: Bugs are just icky, no matter the size. Remove at all costs.
- Well, the book is... The movie tho, yeah Paul Verhoeven has opinions about fascists. 😂
  His commentary on that film is truly one of the better commentary tracks I've ever listened to.
- The book was
  
  I know the book was but this sort of people who think that starship troopers is profascism, are also a sort of people that will definitely not be well read.
- It's amazing the number of people who do.
  It's got Neil Patrick Harris in it how on Earth can it possibly be pro military?

So, uh, where's the diagram?
- but obviously a diagram doesn't help the willingly blind ;-)
  but curious to see the slides too.
- If you know what the Imperium is about, it isn't surprising for neo-nazis to play out their fantasies that way.
- this is an edit on an older green text, but the premise was gym, based, and cringe.
  
  Makes sense. It is an oft discussed trend though. There are large unmoderated 40k FB groups they are very focused on anti trans activism and Trump worship, and smaller GB groups that are, worse.
  There are also plenty of fine groups, or at least groups that put miniature photos firsts.
  YouTube is similarly split between creepy Black Templar afficionados and channels more like my recent fav Shining Nathan
  https://youtu.be/ufiwszsw-Eg
  40k Brunch Gossip Episode 1 #warhammer40k
  But you didn't hear it from me.

The good groups are the ones who are very interested in fantasy Nazis ironically.
- If I play the theo-fascists then my total incompetence at strategy makes them look bad
  
  If strapping tank treads to a church isn't peak military competence, I don't know what is.
  
  Haha dead Nazis

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