Firefox @lemmy.ml

2mo ago

Firefox introduces AI as experimental feature

They support Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini, HuggingChat, and Mistral.

100 comments

That was there before 133, don’t remember the exact release that added it.

I don't understand the hate. It's just a sidebar for the supported LLMs. Maybe I'm misunderstanding?
Yes, I would prefer Mozilla focus on the browser, but to me, this seems like it was done in an afternoon.
- It seems like common cynicism. Mozilla adds this feature, as not to yield major features to other browsers. Mozilla's lets you natively have lots of different AI solutions to pick from.
  Not every feature is for everyone. Not every feature is done being improved on at release.
  And in spite of popular opinions, organizations don't do just one thing and then do just the next thing and the thing after that. Organizations can and do focus on and prioritize many things at the same time.
  And for people who are naysaying AI at every mention, it has a lot of great and fascinating uses, and if you think otherwise, you really should try them more. I've used it plenty for work and life. It's not going away, might as well do some nice things with it.
- I want my browser to be a browser. I don't want Pocket, I don't want AI, I don't want bullshit. There are plugins for that.
  
  that's the great thing: you don't have to use it

Unpopular opinion, I think they're doing it right as well as it can be at least. It's completely optional and doesn't seem to be intrusive.
- yeah its not google chrome level which i'm thankful about.
  
  I'm way more pissed about restarting my PC after an update and having Copilot installed without my permission.
- I agree

They better not decide to enable it by default.
- it's not enabled by default ... it's opt out by default
  
  I think that means that it's opt-in.
  
  if third-party accounts are needed, it'll have to stay that way.

Thing is, for your average user with no GPU and whp never thinks about RAM, running a local LLM is intimidating. But it shouldn't be. Any system with an integrated GPU, and the more RAM the better, can run simple models locally.
The not so dirty secret is that ChatGPT 3 vs 4 isn't that big a difference, and neither are leaps and bounds ahead of the publically available models for about 99% of tasks. For that 1% people will ooh and aah over it, but 99% of use cases are only seeing marginal gains on 4o.
And the simplified models that run "only" 95% as well? They can use 90% fewer resources give pretty much identical answers outside of hyperspecific use cases.
Running a a "smol" model as some are called, gets you all the bang for none of the buck, and your data stays on your system and never leaves.
I've been yelling from the rooftops to some stupid corporate types that once the model is trained, it's trained. Unless you are training models yourself, there is no need for the massive AI clusters, just for the model. Run it local on your hardware at a fraction of the cost.
- There's the tragedy with this new feature: they fast-tracked this past more popular requests, sticking it into Release Firefox.
  But they only rushed the part that connects to third parties. There was also a "localhost" option which was originally alongside the Big Five corporate offerings, but Mozilla ultimately decided to bury that one inside of the about:config settings.
  
  I'm guessing that the reason (and a good one at that) is that simply having an option to connect to a local chatbot leads to just confused users because they also need the actual chatbot running on their system. If you can set up that, then you can certainly toggle a simple switch in about:config to show the option.
- Can you point me to some resources to running smol llm?
  My use case prob just to help "typing" miscellaneous idea I have or check for my grammatical error, in english.
  Thanks, in advance.
  
  https://ollama.com/
  
  Here you go: Review of SmolVLM https://www.marktechpost.com/2024/11/26/hugging-face-releases-smolvlm-a-2b-parameter-vision-language-model-for-on-device-inference/
  Model itself: https://huggingface.co/spaces/HuggingFaceTB/SmolVLM
  And you can use Ollama to run it locally, and Open WebUI to access it in browser.
- Idk I noticed pretty significant differences between models of various sizes. I mean there are lots of metrics on this
  https://www.vellum.ai/llm-leaderboard
- Last time I tried using a local llm (about a year ago) it generated only a couple words per second and the answers were barely relevant. Also I don't see how a local llm can fulfill the glorified search engine role that people use llms for.
  
  Try again. Simplified models take the large ones and pare them down in terms of memory requirements, and can be run off the CPU even. The "smol" model I mentioned is real, and hyperfast.
  Llama 3.2 is pretty solid as well.
  
  They're fast and high quality now. ChatGPT is the best, but local llms are great, even with 10gb of vram.

Didn't want it in Opera, don't want it in Firefox. I mean they can keep trying and I'll just keep on ignoring this shit :/
- hopefully, it'll be possible to opt out somehow.
  
  as the screenshot shows, it is opt-in

I wish I had telemetry on such features.
I really doubt a significant number of people use AI chatbots often enough that having it in a dedicated sidebar is worth it.
- I wish I had telemetry
  I'm sure they do as Mozilla is an ad company
  
  This is apparently either not widely known or some people just like to shoot the messenger.
  jwz, Jun.: Mozilla is an advertising company now
  jwz, Oct.: Mozilla's CEO doubles down on them being an advertising company now
  Mozilla support: Share data with Mozilla to help improve Firefox
  Firefox documentation: Telemetry
- I think nobody uses AI Chatbots, unless you're forced to do it. They're utter shit.
- I've never had the urge to use a chat bot personally, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority. Lots of people use these things all the time for so much stuff we probably wouldn't even consider.
  I've worked with a few people that all but rely on these things to produce any creative work they have to do.
  Maybe we run in different circles but I think a lot of people don't even talk about how they're using it.

why a fucking chatbot? translate a page better for me you fucking losers, all the translation options suck for privacy outside of specifically trained local AIs. this is the BEST use case for a small local LLM yet mozilla with all its brains and resources couldnt rub two neurons together for this.
or they could do character prediction on your typing to make typing faster. just some legit examples, why waste resources to build a chat ai into my browser when i can just open a website???
- Perhaps Mozilla’s biggest "failure" is just communication...
  Firefox actually has this now.
  
  bergamot is ok but leaves a lot to be desired

Thanks for nothing, Mozilla.
- They should raise the ceo's pay some more to celebrate.
  
  And fire a few employees just cause.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/ai-chatbot
Note that you need an account to use one of these supported systems. HuggingChat allows for a few connections as a gues before cutting the access; basically a trial version, so you have to create an account.

as someone who's never dabbled with ai bots, what does this feature do? is it only to query for information like a web search?
- It just adds ChatGPT or similar to your sidebar. Chatbots can do a lot of things, they are mostly good for information research and technical help, although they have serious flaws like hallucinating false information sometimes
  
  good for information research and technical help
  i’d say they are good precursors for information research… never trust them, but use them to find terms to search for reliable sources
- It is a sidebar that sends a query from your browser directly to a server run by a giant corporation like Google or OpenAI, consumes an excessive amount of carbon/water, then sends a response back to you that may or may not be true (because AI is incapable of doing anything but generating what it thinks you want to see).
  Not only is it unethical in my opinion, it's also ridiculously rudimentary...
  
  It gives you many options on what to use, you can use Llama which is offline. Needs to be enabled though about:config > browser.ml.chat.hideLocalhost.
- From the description in the UI, it does sound like it. Theoretically, a chatbot could be created where you can ask questions about the webpage you have currently opened, so if you don't want to read a long article, for example. I guess, you could probably just throw a link into an existing chatbot either way, but yeah, direct integration might be convenient either way.
  Well, or a chatbot could be created, which has access to your browser history, bookmarks and tabs, so you can ask it when you last saw certain information. However, you'd need a locally running chatbot for that, which makes it more difficult to implement.
- good question

I mean, if you're going to do it, where's the Ollama love?
- I was disappointed there was no local option...
- I don't get it, ollama is a provider no?
  
  I think the point is it's open source
  
  A provider that can be run locally.

Are any of these open source or trustworthy?
- I think Mistral is model-available (ie I'm not sure if they release training data/code but they do release model shape and weights), huggingchat definitely is open source and model-available
  
  ~~Sorry but HuggingChat / HuggingFace and all models on it are not open source~~ (Edit: Oh you meant the UI HuggingChat is Open Source. Yeah sorry, I was focused on the models. And there is no Open Source model from my understanding.) -> https://opensource.org/ai/open-source-ai-definition Off course opensource.org is not the only authority on what the word opensource means, but its not a bad start.
- There are no open source ai models, even if they tell you that they are. HuggingFace is the closest thing to as something like open source where you can download ai models to run locally without internet connection. There are applications for that. In Firefox the HuggingChat uses models from HuggingFace, but I think it is running them on a server and does not download from?
  The reason why they are not open source is, because we don't know exactly on what data they are trained on. We cannot rebuild them on our own. And for trustworthy, I assume you are talking about the integration and the software using the models, right? At least it is implemented by Mozilla, so there is (to me) some sort of trust involved. Yes, even after all the bullshit I trust Mozilla.
  
  It's "open weights" if they are publishing the model file but nothing about its creation. There's some hypothetical security concerns with training it to give very specific outputs for certain very specific inputs but I feel like that's one of those kind of far fetched worries especially if you want to use it for chat or summarization and the comparison is getting AI output from a server API. Local is still way better.
- probably not

This happened ages ago, didn't it? Am I missing something new?
- Yeah, it did. That feature has been there at least since when Mozilla enabled "Firefox labs" section in settings by default a few months ago, and maybe even earlier than that
  
  TIL a month is an age.
- I only saw it now, maybe it happened before on a different version.

Luckily, it seems to be disabled by default. At the moment.

Now add support for GPT4All and everyone is happy again.

For a second I thought it said "experimental failure". Would be more accurate, I think.

If they do it in a privacy-preseeving way, this could help them get back market share which will generally benefit an open internet.
- But it's gonna be very difficult when you've got Google and OpenAI up there.
  
  It's an open source project, you can keep it in a box and people are able to check it.
- I really wish there was another way.
- Why would anybody want to have AI in their browser? It's a fucking browser.
  
  Because browsers are the most useful tool on most computers. Ordinary People go on google/ask chatgpt for mundane questions. If their browser can do that they need 1 app less and it will be more convenient which is what especially non-tech savy people care about.

I will say, the Le Chat provider is pretty decent. You really can use it more natural language. "Rewrite it with a better rhyme scheme" "remove the last line" and it just got it.
Why no local option though? Why no anonmysing option? Why no right click use here option for different text fields? (Like help write this as better auto complete or summarize this block of text, etc) Why no RAG using the web, why only generated text?

Wasn't this there for a while, or just me.
- It is since version 128 I think
  
  I think 130

I wonder if this can be removed at compile time, like Pocket.

Sigh. I'm glad to have switched to LibreWolf.
- I switched a while back before all the Ai and "privacy preserving" telemetry stuff.
  Every update note I see for Firefox now just reinforces my decision.

Wow, great job Firefox. Thanks.
If I wanted unreliable bullshit like AI, I'd use Chrome.

oh good. hurray.

And I still can't convince it to stop caching the images because it does not follows the RFC.

Could this replace Perplexity for (assisted free) online search?

The fact that I can't choose one of the many AIs I have locally downloaded on my computer is bogus

The chat isn't the point, it's needed as interface for storing your logins to summarization features
When internet is written by ai, you do need a tldr

100 comments