I am a very liberal person and I have very liberal children, except for one. I'm pretty sure my Gen Z son has been taken in by fascist doctrine. What can I get him for Christmas?
I am a very liberal person and I have very liberal children, except for one. I'm pretty sure my Gen Z son has been taken in by fascist doctrine. What can I get him for Christmas?
Ignore all the joke answers here. It seems insensitive given the subject matter. He's probably lonely and feeling left out. If he has siblings it's all the more likely. I was an alienated teenager who was in a place similar to your son I think. I eventually realized I and many others we're being used to further the agenda of some unsavory fucks who wanted to send us back to the 1860's. Try to show him how much he means to you. Let him know you care about him. Just don't drive him away, Show some love and compassion and he'll realize he's drinking the kool-aid eventually I think. Hope this helps, good luck!
A plane ticket. Others have suggested he's bored and I concur. IMO, he needs to be intellectually challenged while simultaneously having his fears assuaged. Fear, I believe, is a key driver in pushing people toward fascist ideologies. Most likely he fears not being loved.
Traveling to countries with very different cultures can be both stimulating and reassuring, especially if it involves some significant challenge - a physical one like climbing a significant peak or somewhere that's just super hard to get to. You can demonstrate that you love and care for him by going with him. Just the two of you.
Specifically try to get him into some hobby or social activity that will draw his attention away from the fasc stuff. Was there anything he used to love, any friends he's drifted away from that you could try and get him talking to again through a shared activity?
Source: am psych nurse. You don't confront / directly argue with delusions and other thoughts related to maladaptive social behavior; you subtly reduce their attractiveness while encouraging healthy human connection.
If he's consuming right wing social media, it might be because he's bored. Others have suggested left wing media, but maybe just finding other activities to do would help. These cost money, but maybe camping/hiking, hobby electronics/combat robots, dirt bikes/go-karts, RC planes/drones or metal fabrication are ideas that come to my mind. These are hobbies that have either politics neutral or left leaning communities. If he picks up that you're trying to politically influence him, he'll likely dig his heal in.
Voucher for 1 free vasectomy?
Coal. For some reason Republicans love that stuff.
I would say, a good conversation. Listen to him, ask question, don't be too judgemental (and that can be hard). But also accept, that for a big part, you can't form/force his way of thinking. In the end he has to find his own way in life.
Some kids adopt an edgy political identity as a form of protest or rebellion. I can see this being the case here, especially if your whole family is particularly left-leaning. Kid wants to feel like he has an autonomy over his own decision making and that he's not just a carbon copy of you or his siblings, so he becomes a contrarian.
As a teen I was also taken in by extremist political ideology on 4chan, but the thing that snapped me out of that is, surprisingly enough, my curriculum at school focusing heavily on critical thinking and problem solving as essential skills. That's unfortunately not something that can easily be condensed down into a gift-sized package. I'm sure there are some books out there that can help, but I worry that it might be too on-the-nose or that he might just not like reading much to be interested in dry subject matter like philosophy or political science.
I kind of agree with other posters here that taking a family trip somewhere, maybe not explicitly as a gift for him, but as an experience for all of your children, will expose him to stimuli that drastically differ from the way he currently sees the world, which is influenced by a nonstop stream of fearmongering propaganda and a lack of perspective of what a world outside the town or city he grew up in actually looks like.
I’m not right leaning, but I live in a right leaning area, and I think most all of us could stand a bit of time back in nature. So here’s what I would consider.
- A hunting or fishing license and classes
- A long weekend camping in the woods
- A trip to a national park
- Boat license lessons
- A craft class at a local Uni, like welding or pottery. They’re usually pretty cheap and a lot of fun
- A rafting trip
Not knowing him at all nor what he likes, perhaps a guitar and guitar lessons. That’s something I truly enjoyed in my late teens/early 20s. Or tickets to a music show or comedian he likes.
So, what makes you think he's been taken in by fascist doctrine? Are we talking, "he thinks Dave Chapelle is funny and rolls his eyes at wokeness" or are we talking "defends hitler at the dinner table"? I ask just because I feel like some very liberal/leftist people can be pretty jumpy about things that are ultimately harmless. Additionally he might just be doing/saying things to act out and get a rise out of you. You're not gonna fix that by making him read "white fragility" or something.
As far as gifts go I agree with many others in suggesting something that will make him interact with other worldviews in the real world. Maybe you can get him into a hobby that is shared by people across many different socioeconomic backgrounds like basketball or martial arts or travel or something.
Do you know if the doctrine he’s been taken in by is religious or secular in nature?
I ask because I could recommend some books you could get him that just might get the kid to think a little harder about things.
For context, I teach philosophy and religion for some community colleges and have been looking for ways to get these Gen Z alt right boys to quit the propaganda.
While a lot of them seem to be lost causes, there are some who can be challenged to read outside their sphere, so long as what I give them isn’t too overtly “other.”
Depending on what he’s into, there might be some authors who know how to talk to an oppositional reader.
An education?
Ask him what he wants and use that as a starting point?
Plane ticket to Peru and a Ayahuasca retreat
The more you try to overtly meddle the more the kid will be convinced of their beliefs, reactionaries thrive off disagreement and arguments.
Get them something normal, perhaps something the connects with nature. Your goal should be to get them to connect with you and the rest of the family, you want them too feel like they are part of the in-group.
The Wall (the full album) by Pink Floyd
When i was in ny early 20s, i was a Ron Paul guy. When I was in my early 30s, I was a Bernie guy.
So what changed, and what was the same? In my 20s, I didnt have a fundamental understanding of how money really works. Ron Paul was big on the gold standard, which makes sense kn the surface. Crypto is similar where it makes sense on the surface; finite supply means no inflation and no value loss. I somehow also reasoned that not having the gold standard was the cause of inequality, but I honeslty cant understand why, and i cant remember either.
In my 30s, I understood how they money system works mich better. Why we left the gold standard, and how it was holding back progress. I understood how our money is actually backed by muscle, and therefore the national debt doesnt really matter all that much until the day comes when the dollar has no value, because the US is defunct.
Im sure I have much more to learn as I am in my early 40s now.
The point I am trying to make, is that your son probably lacks understanding and wisdom, and is currently easily swayed by surface level logic.
Thisbis really in addition to the other great stuff people have said in here
I don't know how to put this delicately, but:
1.) I grew up in this line of thinking (but also deeply religious, so it's a little different) and it dissipated due to two main things: psychedelics and losing weight/becoming more confident and in-shape. In my case, I hated myself because I was unattractive and very overweight. I saw other people getting girls and resented how easy it seemed, while I felt invisible.
2.) Much of my family is like this and it is always due to a similar lack of confidence/self-loathing.
I'm not suggesting anything, just throwing it out there. That's a hard thing to "gift" around, if it's even at all potentially relevant. Gym membership or weights? You'd have to have a pretty unique relationship with your son to give him psychedelics or a trip to a nice strip club, and I'm not even sure that solves anything necessarily (just using it as an extreme example). Could be badass. Could be really weird/icky. Probably the latter. Massage is less weird? I don't know.
Which is why I agree with the sentiment of separating it all from Christmas and just love him and give him something that shows you know him and know what he would like, so that he feels seen and appreciated. "I'm not going anywhere" is the most-powerful message you can try to send. I'd say IF you try to gift something like that, make sure it's only a side item. Don't make the entire thing about your differences.
Many cliches of parenting turn out to be realities as you go. You find yourself realizing tropes exist for a reason. They grow up fast. Different phases at different periods. Moody teenagers. They're not always true, but they often turn out to be understandable. Besides the above, it's worth considering whether there might be some element of "rebellion" in it, if he grew up liberal. Maybe it's just "doing the opposite of my lame family," like a little bit of a "fuck you, dad!!!" phase? No matter what, you lose the more you dramatically respond. I think riding it out by being the rock who loves him no matter what is ultimately the best play, which means some awesome gift that he would love.
Reading through the comments here, I would say a gift certificate or membership to some activity they've expressed interest in. Ideally, something physical, that either involves working/playing/whatever with other people, or which has a social element to it.
My biased selection would be rock climbing if this is of some interest and you have a climbing gym that isn't a giant pain to access (which you might not). Solo sport, but a) you need a belayer - that was my Dad when I was doing it, and b) the gym rats I've come across are often very friendly, open people.
Can be as challenging as you make it, gets you talking with IRL people, opportunity for what sounds like really necessary quality time going up there, if he gets into bouldering or makes a gym buddy and can get there himself he can eventually do it independently, etc.
Might make sense for them, might not - only you would know, really.
let your children come to their conclusions on their own. do not try to force them into believing one thing or another. share what you believe is right and let them critically think and analyze the world for themselves
it's perfectly natural for teenagers to rebel against their parent's world view- especially when they feel like they are being forced into it. it's part of growing up and crafting your own unique identity. nobody has it all figured out when they are a teenager, even though they think they do. so they may seem arrogant and ignorant.. but that's perfectly normal. if you successfully imparted them the values of empathy and compassion when they were young, they will eventually come to proper belief systems
as for present, you know your son a lot better than any of us will.
I used to be heading down this path as a teenager. For me, college was the eye opener. When I broke away from my normal bubble of people, I would have my opinions and biases challenged.
I like the travel suggestion as well. Also I went to some music festivals around that time that were pretty significant to my beliefs. I guess it depends on the type of music they prefer though.
Das Kapital
Have your son travel, sending him off to see how other people live and how cheerful and helpful most people are is probably going to open his eyes.
- Puerto Rico, Bahama’s, St Lucia, British Virgin Islands are all fairly safe and you can mix and mingle with the locals. Just don’t stay somewhere where you will only stay on the resort. Get a hotel or resort in the middle of a community
I had a wonderful time in St Luca several years ago and stayed at the resort below. It’s a small resort in the middle of a town with lots of interaction with locals.
A turd.
If you want something that he would enjoy, Mein Kampft.
I mean, I'm sure at this point he has been exposed to most literature and works to not be a fascist, this won't get fixed with a gift. Maybe try to have a 1 on 1 conversation with him, let him speak an express why he thinks like that, let him go deep, let him talk about his feelings. Fascism always root on untrue information and resent. If he respects you, you can then talk about where he is wrong, confront the lies, but embrace him as a person.
If you want to win your son back, it will take real work, respect, and love. These people get lied to, and they believe because they are full of resent and want an explanation, someone to pin all the problems, an enemy. Uprooting that is hard, but sometimes family and friends can do it. If family and friends deepen those core beliefs, nothing is going to change.
Source: When I was younger, I was that stupid too. Friends made me realize it.
The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair.
We really need better terms than facist or nazi. People keep confusing the meaning of the words because its all we have for description of this thoughtset. There might be some overlap, but unless it 100% fits it just creates opportunities for people to be confused and issue to get muddied by pointless arguments and misunderstandings.
For some time i have thought this type of thoughtset as "dark humanity", but i'm not sure how fitting term it is and it feels kind of over dramatic. It just feels like humans are fundamendally split about one or more core issues, with some in the middle too. Though i'm also worried that making such clear distinction would also make the separation more solid. The issues also need more defining.
Why we need better terms is that we need to be able to confront these people without insulting them as first thing, otherwise we are just aiding the enemy by pushing them further in. Calling someone nazi or facist only hurts if there is any chance to save them. Its no better than calling someone libtard.
A Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn
Gen Z men that fall for the machismo of "hustling" just can't conceptualize the amount of financial difference between them and their idols. Get him something he can work towards making a hobby and hope that you can talk to him about why he thinks the way he does; listen and try to empathize and offer him an alternative solution to what he has forged for himself.
Some political theory, then read it yourself so you can stop being a liberal /j
As a lefty who received "gifts" from her conservative parents, let me suggest giving the gift separate from a major holiday. Something I wish my parents had done that could work as a gift of sorts for you would be to take your son out for coffee or breakfast. Nothing fancy, preferably not busy. Talk to them about why they think what they do. Don't combat them, just try to understand. Ask them if they would be comfortable talking more after you've had time to think about what they said.
"Hey [child's name], you know that we have strong beliefs about certain subjects. We feel we have good reasons to believe the things we do, but there are smart people in the world who disagree with us. You are a smart kid, and that is reflected in the way you look for answers to problems that the way you have been brought up to think hasn't offered a solution for. It would mean the world to your mom and I to know out son better, what are some things you've thought deeply about recently?"
I don't know how else to show him I love him or that he's a part of this family.
does he like music? see if theres any old punk shows around or any records/vinyls if he likes that at all. sex pistols, dead kennedys, hell, even green day.
- subscription to Brilliant
- museum card (go with him)
- trip abroad
- night out to stand up comedy
- tickets to an anime convention
Edit: maybe get him a busuu, rosetta stone, or duolingo subscription so that he can learn a new language, and maybe the desire to travel to experience life outside of the country, learn about new cultures and people, and so on.
I'd be curious about what makes him different from the others. There's been some research regarding fluid intelligence* vs. crystalized intelligence, where liberals tend to be more on the fluid side. It kind of makes sense because rather than trying to figure out what they can't understand off the bat, conservatives tend to rage against it.
As far as gifts, I dunno. Maybe a puzzle game? I don't know what's big in the puzzle game world now, if anything. The idea is make your son more comfortable with the idea of tackling novel problems instead of trying to cram them into an existing framework.
*it's called "intelligence" but I tend to think of it more like a thinking strategy. Fluid intelligence being "can I think of a way to solve this?" while crystallized intelligence is "what strategy that I'm familiar with already can solve this?"
unironically, some books on philosophy and more broad political sciences.
Assuming he isn't the stupidest person in the room at any given time, some good reading on philosophy and sociological structures (politics) will be interesting.
Don't ask me for recommendations, there are better places to go, and im sure a few people here will have good recommendations.
education is the single biggest thing preventing people from being more educated, funny how that works really.
Marx
Other than fascism, what else is he into? Lean in that direction. Make it apparent that you are all a loving family, and he is a part of that as long as he remains willing to put in the work/maintenance that love requires.
Is he into music? The retro devices seem to be in right now. I got my nephew one year a Walkman and he's been buying cassettes. Now he has a VCR and collecting tapes. I loved all that mechanical stuff when I was a kid and I think that feeling transcends generations. He just needs a hobby to spend his thoughts with, politics are not worthy of our time.
First question: when you use the terms “liberal” and “fascist” do you mean them in their original sense or as they are currently employed in US English?
........a ballgag?
A lot of people recommend anything, outdoors, hiking, camping, dirt bikes etc.
I want to say you have to be careful with those. As you can easily spiral into right wing, conspiracy theorist territory.
Youtube is very good at pushing that kind of content.
Maybe something about food, like cooking classes, or about traveling.
Edit: I developed my comment a bit more below. Hiking isn't a right wing hobby per say. But here is the experience I had with youtube. If you start browsing video about camping and hiking. You will probably start browsing video about solo camping, then survivalism. Then youtube will try to push video about paranormal activities and conspiracies.
So the important part is cut down on social media.
I think a lot of right wing people are people who have travelled very little. If OP can afford it, maybe a trip somewhere with the family.
Perhaps if u talked to ur son abput his beliefs and didnt invalidate his opinions simply because u disagree u might both learn a little and grow as people. Calling ur son a fascist is only going to make him more steadfast in his beliefs.
Trying to force him to believe what u want instead of teaching him to think fof himself and excercise his free will to develop his own identity separate from what u told him might be a wise idea.
As for what to get him for Christmas how about sonthibg unrelated to politics that he legitimately wants. Go speak to him and ask him.
A ticket to visit https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/exhibitions/slavery-and-freedom
or
https://www.theauschwitztours.com/
A course for https://coursebrowser.dce.harvard.edu/course/slavery-and-historical-memory/
Gift him the yellow badge. Let him wear it and slowly remove his luxury to do things throughout the December.
Disconnection notice from the ISP.
A contract to not use the internet for a year in exchange for X cash/gift.
Fake Klux invitation.
A visit to people with different views including the thing his on, plus if old people for uncool effect.
Maga hat and the tshirt with Trumps mug shot or the picture after he got shot
Trump doll. Peter Dutton doll. Hitler doll.
Etc
A bible lol