US startup charging couples to ‘screen embryos for IQ’
Heliospect’s services were marketed at up to $50,000 for 100 embryos, undercover footage shows
oh great, commercial eugenics
We knew it was bound to happen sometime with capitalism
Better than traditional genocidal eugenics.
(psst. hey buddy. all eugenics is genocidal. It’s in the fucking name. Also. racism and fascism have historically been sanitised and presented as scientific or commercial endeavours. They’re the cornerstones of capitalism. Think of how the weapons industry is printing money because of israel’s decades long genocide against the palestinians.)
I'm not so sure about that. If they are able to make it generally affordable, they could make quite the impact trough corruption or just keeping things quiet
That's not how IQ works you idiots.
Wait. Who's the idiots? The ones selling the service, the ones falling for the service, or the embryos that they decide to have low IQ?
I'd say the first two, and if the parents are responsible for the education of the kid, all three.
Re one, what is worse? People selling anti wifi amulets that they know don't work? Or people who sell them while not understanding (nor believing) that they dont work? (More likely it doesnt matter as it remains a scam. Ow god, im getting close to doing actual ethical thinking here).
I'd say number 2. The people selling the service are scammers, but probably not dumb. Or maybe thet are Idk.
"Given these three steps, what's the logical fourth one?"
"..."
"God this embryo is an idiot."
Doesn’t even know the basic strats for these pattern questions, SMH, Do You Even IQ Test? (trying to start DYEIQT)
Good luck having an embryo pass an iq test. Most of them can't even read.
Legitimately though, it's a nonsensical metric to screen on.
The thing with IVF is that it's already incredibly weirdly eugenicist.
Like, read some of the parameters they'd screen you for if you wanted to donate sperm. You get bonus points for having a PhD? I'm sorry? You're looking for a better-educated sperm?
And when you apply for IVF and choose a donor you get their education and job. "I want my cum to be a pilot!" The fuck.
Lamarckian eugenics!
IVF isn’t required if fertility concerns or frozen eggs aren’t involved, they can give you the home game.
A fertility doctor here in Sweden took sperm from men who were undergoing investigations for infertiliy and used it as donor sperm.
Imagine their surprise when decades later they found out they had kids.
Not sure why he chose those particular samples, maybe all he had available.
I think it's understandable. Intelligence is partly hereditary and people want clever children. Education and job can give you at least an overall idea of the person you're having a child with. It's kind of weird anyway to have a child with someone random, isn't it?
I didn't understand how the hell the "pro-life" crowd would cheer for IVF since it entails destroying plenty of embryos. Now I understand: it's the opportunity for some good old fashioned eugenics.
They’re not cheering. Evangelical anti-abortion activists have long targeted IVF and it’s been practically banned in at least one US state.
Reminds me of how marriage advice has its roots in white supremacy. (CW: a lot. self harm, SA, abuse)
IQ is so incredibly complicated, and we really don't know how it works, and what genes allow for the possibility of high IQ. So what are they even screening for? If they're just looking at broad trends in population IQ compared to genetics, then what they're actually seeing are environmental factors, which play an immense role in whether or not potential is ever reached.
@HelixDab2 @suemeplease I'd go a step further and say it doesn't work. It's an inherently flawed concept that you can reduce human thought, skill, ability, and behaviour to a number and then rank people by it. The legacy of general intelligence itself is that of people assuming it exists and seeking to justify their assumptions.
But on the plus side, the people capable of paying for this bullshit are going to have significantly higher chance of proper nutrition for their kids, access to good education, and ability to avoid environmental toxins, so they just have to compare their "handpicked sperm" to the population as a whole and they'll show great results.
Yeah this is an obvious scam lol.
(It's not about IQ specifically, but to anyone interested in how many different environment factors play a role in human behavior/outcomes, Behave by Robert Sapolsky is an excellent overview of research in a broad variety of fields. It's definitely not a light read, but it doesn't assume too much prior knowledge, and is one of my favorite books on what makes us tick.)
There are likely many hundreds or more of contributing alleles according to one paper I read in uni. How individual differences manifest genetically is stultifyingly complex. We still don't even have a unifying theory of what intelligence is, or even consciousness - much less "how make smarterer". It's before early days, we're still banging rocks together. Scientists know approximately dick about intelligence.
That's the really crazy thing, innit? We don't even know what being conscious entails! But we've got over one hundred years of studying ("studying") psychology while just handwaving the underlying mechanisms. We have no idea how all the genes interact, much less how environment directly influences all of that, but we're still trying to do complex eugenics that's lightyears past our current understanding.
Maybe we get to Gattaca someday, but it's not going to be soon.
I would definitely hate to be burdened with an IQ. Such a terrible thing to be born with
Only if burdened with emotional intermittence, as well.
GATTICA! GATTICA! GATTICA!
GATTACATS would be the most cursed musical possible and every day I give thanks that we live in a world where it doesn't exist.
Just you wait, someone in Hollywood might see your post and get ideas
Won't one crucial difference be that Gattaca's genetic selection actually worked? This will be a techbro "move fast and break things" con job.
Just one step along the way...
It'll be here soon enough.
Scott Alexander pokes his head up out of the astroturf and whispers, "It's showtime."
If I only have about fifty embryos, can I pay $50k to have them scanned now and have another 50 embryo scans left on my account or do I have to have all of them on hand immediately?
Gross, but I'm not shocked. IVF and prenatal genetics screening is big business, it was really only a matter of time until someone tried pulling this. As much as it shouldn't be the case, the 'line must go up' edict holds in the medical business too. I know some large lab services companies that are likely watching groups like this with great interest (but letting them take the risks first, which is smart because this is a con).
My hope is that someone squashes this and we keep screening limited to risks for severe developmental disorders (which, even still, is at least a little ethically problematic) and conditions that lower the probability of the pregnancy coming to term. But we'll see - there's gold in dem der embryos.
training your sperm to pass raven's progressive matrices
At least corvids are smart. Better that than some birdbrain's progressive matrices.
I actually read a Red Dwarf fanfic about this once where Rimmer's parents had paid for embryo selection to make sure all their kids had high IQs and good genes because they wanted to make sure they all got into the Space Corps
Can we do this after they're born, grow up, and acquire a drivers license?
Gattaca is here now.
Well, in the same way that Mars colonies are here now. Techbros with more money than sense throwing it at things with futuristic aesthetics doesn’t make them real.
There's one born every minute, this is a great way to have them self-select for financial benefit.
