I am really conflicted
I am really conflicted
I wasted 6 hours arguing with a libertarian. But I did succeed in arguing him into submission, where he started accepting that his worldview is wrong. His only defense of himself is that "I haven't read anything about objectivism, I think they might prove property rights and markets there..."
I should probably get a real life.
It is very funny to me that you ran into a libertarian so malformed that they haven't even read Rand. Where they a Rothbardian, a Hoppean, or did they get their political "education" from memes?
He claimed to be both Rothbardian and Hoppean. While exclusively invoking John Locke's conception of property. Really confidently incoherent.
probably youtube radicalized. He tried to back his arguments by citing bullshit youtube videos.
This may come off a little "doomer", and I don't mean it to, but I think we at a point right now where there's really not that many reachable people left in the west. I've noticed over the years that the mean age of actual leftists in the west seems to remain about my age for all the time I've been a leftist. I think we had a surge at a particular point in time when I was around 22 and most of the new "leftists" post that are actually just Succs.
I've sorta just
since cuz I don't think the material base to form an actual socialist movement exists in most of the west right now, so I don't waste time trying to convert anyone because the best I can make them is a vaushite. Now, I'm actually MORE optimistic for the future now on a global level but I've accepted there's not gonna be any socialism in my backyard.I don't think that I have really fully turned this person around, and I am not advocating people do the same. I think this guys beliefs being so incoherent means that there is a very slim chance he reconsiders things. I am just acknowledging that I wasted 6 hours and trying to hope that it wasn't totally wasted.
I think that's the opposite conclusion you should come to. If his ideology is an incoherent mess, that's more a sign that he has no interest is forming a coherent ideology and just wants politics to validate his vibes about the world. He will likely always be incoherent because he has no interest in coherence. If anything I've seen more success changing people who could actually articulate some sensible logic to their misguided beliefs, it shows they have some actual interest in logic.
Arguing a libertarian into submission is almost impossible, so
“don’t have anything concrete to back any of this up, and refuse to do any reading on the subject, but nothing will stop the regurgitation of unexamined ideas upon the world”
is a disease vector that needs proper precautions, but libs will continue to plaguerat both 
and fascist ideologyDepends, is this someone you know in real life or at least have some contact with? I totally get trying to engage with people you like or vibe with. Obviously, it’s your time, but I’m not sure it’s worth it to try to convert complete online strangers.
No, I just couldn't walk away and kept arguing with an internet stranger. So what I originally planned to be just mocking and pointing out an obvious contradiction kept expanding out.
I’m not opposed to you being on a one-person crusade to change the world for the better, but this seems like one of those cases where you need to be able to choose your battles. If this whole thing brought you some degree of joy, it’s not too bad, I guess?
I’m actually expanding on this. I have a social media account that I just use to post about hobbies and interests—nothing else. Even though it's pretty low stakes, I need to remind myself not to waste time on arguments or squabbles. I’d rather spend my time doing something fun than arguing with strangers on the internet.
Sometimes I have a topic I feel strongly enough about to argue, but let’s be real—most of the time, your time is better spent than engaging with "LonedadsforTRUMP2024" in a serious manner.
Either way have a nice weekend
