Apologizing for something you already knew was wrong seems pointless.
Apologizing for something you already knew was wrong seems pointless.
I’m pretty sure I’m in the small minority here but I personally feel like apologies are a better fit for accidents and miscommunications. If you steal from someone, cheat on someone, intentionally harm someone, etc. saying sorry doesn’t do much for me because if you were sorry, you wouldn’t have done it in the first place. I appreciate the apology, but that doesn’t move me. Trust is always regained through actions, not words. Perhaps you could argue that a person has a “change of heart.” Maybe that might make the apology more valid. But idk
My dad told me a story once that I think resonates here. When he was a young man, he stole a bunch of tools from his former employer. He knew it was wrong. Eventually, it began to bother him and he knew that there was no way he could live with what he had done unless he tried to make it right as best he could.
He took all the tools back to his old boss, fully expecting to go to jail, and told him that he was sorry for stealing from him. To my dad's amazement, his old boss just kind of stared at him in disbelief, accepted his apology, and sent him on his way.
A sincere apology is the first step in taking responsibility for your actions. It takes a dose of humility to go to someone you've wronged and tell them, sincerely, that you acknowledge that what you did was wrong and you are sorry for your actions.
The second step is being ready and willing to accept the consequences for your actions. Whatever those may be. The third is to do the right thing next time.
A personal philosophy that I try to live by and one that I try to teach my kids is, "Don't do anything you're going to have to lie about. And if you do, don't lie about it. And if you do, come clean and make it right as soon as possible." If you're really a good person with integrity, living with your own lies or misdeeds eventually gets to be a heavy load. Apologies don't make everything ok and they don't undo your actions. But, they are an important first step in accepting responsibility for your actions and acknowledging the harm that you've caused.
Empty words are pointless. You're supposed to have the change of heart. That's supposed to be what I'm sorry means there.
That's not often communicated to kids, especially when forced to apologize
Most often, when this happened to me, i wasn't sorry, and i didn't want to say what i didn't feel
For me, it's mostly the ritual for communicating beyond the incident. Then after that it's an acknowledgement of hurt feelings and a reconciliation. It's hardly ever about who was right and who was wrong, people rarely change their minds in such a short amount of time.
If the apologee knows that the apologizer wasn’t sincere, then it’s pretty much worthless. However, the insincerity of the apologizer isn’t always known by the apologee, and that’s when the apology still does have the intended psychological effect on the apologee. However, an insincere apologizer doesn’t get any of the benefits giving an apology usually comes with. However, the apologizer can still view that as an effective a social manipulation method, if they’re a psychopath.
I think what's worse is FORCED appologies. You already know if it's forced, it's just pointless words. They don't mean it.
I'd respect it more if they doubled down, and gave the double middle finger. Like going on Lemmy and telling people that without drastic culture changing shifts in the overall presentation of the OS, linux will NEVER be a recognizable OS to the general public. 4% userbase is a pathetic number that represents an all time high, and is just as easily considered a rounding error for the REAL operating systems!
doubles down with a double middle finger
Oh! Oh! You want me to appologize!
moons the crowd
BASK IN MY GREATNESS!!!
Damn. Before you mooned me, I was grabbing my torch and pitchfork, but now I have only respect. Well done, Lost_My_Mind. Well done.
I am in this situation with a family member. I asked for an apology for their behavior, and I got the flippant "I'm sorry" and "can we move on." The reality is I'm.. unable to move on until the situation is settled. "I require an apology for your behavior, both in words showing you understand why this is a problem, and the appropriate change of action."
We are still trying to sort this out. It may not go well. WHEEEEEEEE
I'd say if the person is legitimately working to improve themselves and aspiring to not be the sort of person who would do such things, then there can be a point to an apology.
I do hate "I didn't mean to _____" in situations where they clearly 100% did mean to. For instance, saying "I didn't mean to hurt you" after saying hurtful things rings extremely hollow. Like, if they said hurtful things to you in the heat of the moment, then in that specific moment, they 100% did mean to hurt you. Even if it was less than a second before they regretted it, they wouldn't have said it unless they didn't mean it the way it came out, they didn't realize it was (that much of?) a trigger for you, they had some disorder that made them say it, etc. In which case "I didn't mean to hurt you" is a reasonable way to start an attempt at reconciliation. But if they're pissed and say something hurtful, it's because they want you to experience pain/punishment. "I was an asshole and I said things that I wish I hadn't; I'm sorry." is a better way to go in that situation. (Really, I think using the actual word "sorry" in an apology can make it come across more sincerely, so long as the rest of the apology is sincere and not some bullshit non-apology.)
Maybe it's just a quirk of the English language that people use "I didn't mean to..." and "I'm sorry for..." interchangeably in such cases even though the most literal interpretations of the two constructions are quite different.
Also it's not as if there's only way to dodge actually apologising. "I'm sorry you felt hurt" or whatever is pretty bullshit, I think.
But yeah. I think in general considering whether the literal words of your apology are strictly true when apologising is a good way to make your apology not come across as empty platitudes.
And I can definitely think of at least one time when I've been "apologised to" but really they were just sluffing off responsibility for anything. Usually when people do that to me I smile and accept their apology, but privately I'm thinking something like "yeah, this is the closest thing to an apology I can really expect from this self-deluded douchebag" and I'll remember that shit for the future.
I'll give an example of an apology that counters your opinion, perhaps fits the bill. Plus, I feel like writing, keeps the grey matter oiled.
1995 (or thereabouts), Tulsa, OK:
Dated a beautiful woman for a month or two, far out of my league, think Dollar Store Carrie-Anne Moss. She invited me to a party in her swank (to me!) downtown apartment and then pointedly ignored me all night. "Oh hi. (side hug) Drinks are in the kitchen.", and scooted off, leaving me alone in a room full of strangers. Fucking "toodles" I guess. At least her friends made some effort to chat me up. I expected to be shown off, introduced around, "This is Shalafi, the guy I've been dating!", and hopefully gushing about? Being that I was her date, and everyone knew it, it was pretty fucking humiliating.
I've always been, at least moderately, socially adept. Tried to make a go of it, but I can read a room now and I could read a room then, bailed, not sure even I made my excuses. The scene was all rather surreal, don't remember much. But as I left, that memory is burned into my very DNA.
The instant the apartment door clicked she sang out in a voice projected to carry a roadhouse, "Thank GOD! I thought he would NEVER leave!" A few nervous chuckles followed, mostly a brief silence before the party resumed full blast. Surprisingly, there wasn't a 90s sitcom record scratch. Decades later, I can clearly see her door and hallway, see myself staring at that eggshell wall, thinking that could not have just happened to adult me. Took me right back to elementary school ass beatings.
God damn that hurt. She hadn't shown any signs she wasn't into me. A few days previously, she had damned near torn my clothes off in that same room! (No condom in my pocket, no sex, there's a lesson in that me boyos.) And I was so into her. Beautiful, intelligent, well read, a talented artist, all that. Guess I wasn't up to her social standards, hell, maybe she was just slumming with the long hair guy. God damn that hurt.
Years later had my first IT job. Working downtown no less! Finally felt like a grownup. Being 10 o'clock people, I had seen her several times smoking outside her office building. One cloudy December morning she determinedly crossed Boulder Ave., head held high, looking me in the eye the whole way. Fuck could she possibly want? I wasn't certain she even recognized me. Can't remember the words, but she laid down the most heartfelt apology I ever expect to receive. It was short enough, while still conveying her misery. None of that, "I'm sorry you felt...", crapola. Nah. More like, "I humiliated you and you didn't deserve what I did to you." No excuses, no explanations of where her head was at time, just the facts ma'am and can you forgive me? She knew how keenly she hurt me and had carried that shame and guilt for years. I absolutely forgave her, no reservations, no recriminations. I'll always admire that woman for her clear sincerity and sheer guts. 26-years later, she's still forgiven.
Would you forgive?
Ofc I would forgive. Notice in my statement I said I appreciate apologies, they just aren’t my main factors for rebuilding trust. If it was me in your case I would accept the apology and leave it at that. I probably would’ve been more interested in understanding why she felt the need to act like that in her apartment than the actual apology. But I’m glad your situation worked out
Maybe I'm naive, but I would have fully trusted her after that apology. Again though, that was a few years later. I would not have trusted if she laid that down after a week.
Wondered for years about that scene. Wasn't far out of my punker years, may have been wearing my motorcycle jacket or some such? Didn't feel like a fish out of water though, not like I was dropped into a formal ball and everyone else was wearing a tuxedo. (But I can jam to that if need be!) Didn't feel wildly outside my economic circle, just a group of 20-somethings at a house party. All very strange to be rejected so.
Writing all that may have given me an epiphany, so I thank you for the opportunity to relive this! We were both heavy drinkers at the time. Maybe she sobered up and was at the "apologize to those you've hurt" stage? Even if that were the case, still doesn't diminish her bravery, though maybe she had a little practice by then? :)
It is common to feel remorse afterwards, and apologizing communicates that. Not every act is well thought out or planned