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tranarchist @lemmy.ml

8mo ago

on our way to fascism

88 comments

Where's italy?
- Italy's taking the picture
- Milei, Meloni, and Orban already ran by the cameraman.
  
  right? I was like... these guys are only aspiring to fascism, where's Orban?
- they already are fascist, so no reason for them to run towards it, also they're included in the EU
  
  also they're included in the EU
  So's Germany, France, and ~~Latvia~~ Austria. AKA everyone pictured except the US.
- Italy should actually be in the front

democratic is a bit of a stretch though
- For the USA, yes, but there are other countries too where democracy still kinda works

I think calling everyone a fascist would just water down the impact of the fascist world just like the far right- or far left-wing words which nowadays are just used on more left/right parties but are kinda not close on their agenda like the 20th century parties were where these definitons came from.
But educate me if some of these countries have parties which really apply most general aspects of the fascism movement
- the guy running for chancellor in Austria (Herbert Kickl) is calling himself "Volkskanzler", guess who also called himself that? fucking Hitler. so no, I don't think I'm over reacting
  
  For people like me, that's "People's Chancellor".
  
  Wow dayum that definitely seem really sus.
  
  I'm calling myself human - you know who did that too? Fucking Ted.
- Wanting to ban mosques, the quran and muslim clothing like niqabs sounds pretty fascist to me (that’s what the biggest political party in The Netherlands wants). Thinking the European far right (that is rapidly gaining grounds) isn’t fascist or fascist leaning is a wild take.
  
  Well it could be a fascist, but nevertheless on which category they are really in, it's really awful for doing this
  
  Unfortunately most leftist parties in Europe suffer from the paradox of tolerance. And rightists are hypocritical in opposing Islam but supporting Christianity. There's nobody anti-islamic who's not a fascist, which is ironic since in some ways they are quite similar, and both are harmful to humanity.
  (And to make it clear before you accuse me of being fascist, I oppose the currently dominant version of Islam which is not separable from politics, and which insists on actual belief in god and quran. Once it becomes a weakly held cultural category like Christianity in most of Europe I'll be fine with it)
- A few of the AFD highlights
  Member of the Bundestag suggested to shoot every migrant at the border.
  Another one claimed not every SS member was a bad person. Which lost them the support of French and Italian fascist.
  Leader of the party in Thüringen, a history teacher, used a slogan of the SA.
  There is many more...
  
  Yeah. Scary stuff. I live in central Berlin, and it's pretty relaxed here. Did the Mauerlauf last weekend and immediately when you cross the Brandenburg border to some of these villages, they're full of AfD advertisement. Berlin is definitely the Portland of Germany :D
  
  You've won. Certified fascistmaxxers there.
- Germany definitely counts. The AfD is above 20%, in some states they might even govern alone. They probably will be part of the next government after the next election and they definitely are fascist.
  
  It's mind boggling how a suspiciously nazi friendly party can get so many votes. Doesn't Germany have some serious anti-nazi laws written into it's constitution, or is that treated like a joke too like in Hungary?
- Many are populist parties, with the feeling that fascism is just waiting behind a hidden corner.
  
  Not even slightly hidden
- An example, a Dutch minister for the biggest party (PVV, in my opinion (very close to being) a fascist party) was an active member on an internet forum called Stormfront which is known to be a forum for neo-nazis
  
  Lol is that nazi character "stormfront" in the boys named after this forum?
  
  Jesus Christ, didn't he resign from his role after the backlash?
- We are allowed by court to call members of the FPÖ Kellernazis (people who are secretly Nazis when drinking with their buddies under the cellar) the FPÖ will most likely be the strongest party after the next Nationalrats election on September 29th. They will have something between 30 to 35% which is pretty strong. They have actual plans in their program to overthrow governments via referendum of the public and other things. So yes, it fits.
  
  They are expected to have between 25 and 30 percent*
  And usually prognosises tend to value them higher than they end up, so I guess we can expect them to get around 25%. Plenty of space for other parties to form a coalition.
- if calling it what it is waters it down so be it
  
  "if using a word improperly muddies it's definition, so be it"
  Are you anti dictionary or something?
- There is no careful use of language that can stop people from preferring hatred. Humans are machines for making the world worse, and they will continue to do so, and while they do it they will rationalise doing it, and while people get hurt (including themselves) they will blame the victims.
  "It's not fascism!" they complain as minorities are scapegoated and children die. Just get used to the fact that anything that is pointed entirely towards harming people for fun and profit is going to attract a range of derogatory words, and maybe think about how to stop humans from hurting humans instead.
  
  Humans are machines for making the world worse
  This sounds like fatalistic capitalist/imperialist realism.
  
  Agreed, actions to save the weak and oppressed should be more important, I just worry that such words like fascist could lose it's punching weight whenever someone could be truly a fascist. It wouldn't have as such a backlash for that certain target.
- This started with “the war on terror.” And then any time there was anything someone didn’t like, it was “terrorism.”
- "Bolsonarismo" in Brazil has an uncanny resemblance to fascism
- Most fascist movements die out before they can hold onto power long enough to transform society.
  We tend to focus on the fascist movements that have obtained power on held onto it long enough to transform a country into a fascist state. Mussolini, Franco, Hitler etc.
  But the danger is there so it's important to be vigilant.
  That being said... yeah, on lemmy.ml, anyone that fails the leftist purity test is a liberal and all liberals are fascists. Everyone is a fascist that isn't an authoritarian with a red and yellow flag.
  
  on lemmy.ml, anyone that fails the leftist purity test is a liberal and all liberals are fascists
  Liberals: "You can't just call everyone a fascist every time you disagree with a policy, it isn't civil."
  Also Liberals: "My political opponents are fascist and any third party vote is a vote for fascism and if you don't vote you're supporting fascism and if you argue with me on foreign policy or debt relief or you hurt my election chances in any way, then you're going to let a fascist back into the White House."

I need to make a bot to post this any time fascism gets mentioned.
The western left’s use of the term fascism, is borderline white-supremacist at this point. Fascism was a form of colonialism that died by the 1940s, and is only allowed to be demonized in public discourse, because it was a form of colonialism directed also against white europeans. It was defeated, and Germany / Italy / Japan reverted to the more stable form of government for colonialism (practiced by the US, UK, France, the Netherlands, Australia, etc): bourgeois parliamentarism.
British, european, and now US colonizers were doing the exact same thing, and killing far more people for hundreds of years in the global south, yet you don’t hear ppl scared of their countries potentially "adopting parliamentary democracy”. They haven't changed, and their wealth is still propped up by surplus value theft from the super-exploitation of hundreds of millions of low-paid global south proletarians.
This is why you have new leftists terrified that the UK or US or europe “might turn fascist!!”, betraying that the atrocities propagated by those empires against the global south was and is completely acceptable.
Make no mistake about it: parliamentary / bourgeois democracy is not only a more stable form of government, it's also far more effective at carrying out colonialism, and killing millions of innocent people.
- Fascism is a pretty specific ideology. If you want to learn more, Umberto Eco made a list.
  I get where you're getting at: the role of past and ongoing colonialism is still being downplayed. But you're wrong. There are very good reasons why we should fear fascism in particular.
  
  The USA genocided an entire continent under it's current form of government, and committed and is still committing countless other atrocities. Look at what Europe did to Africa and Asia under that same form.
  Bourgeois parliamentarism is a much more stable shell for colonialism than any other form of government has proven to be. Demonizing a dead form of colonialism (fascism) lets them off the hook, and never forces them to look at what their own governments are currently doing. They get to keep their chauvinist / supremacist myth about "liberal democracy" being the superior form of government, without challenging it.
  
  I'd also like to add that hitler was very specific about his desire to emulate the US model of colonialism: and do to eastern europe, what the US had already done to its native peoples.
  The only difference between lebensraum and manifest destiny, is that bourgeois democracy was far more effective at indigenous genocide than fascism was.
  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/03/nazi-germanys-american-dream-hitler-modeled-his-concept-of-racial-struggle-and-global-campaign-after-americas-conquest-of-native-americans.html
  
  Eco is not a definitive authority and his little checklist is extremely ahistorical.
  
  Umberto Eco completely ignores the material basis for fascism, which is usually the downwardly mobile petit bourgeoisie. Fascism takes advantage of superstructural elements, which is why Eco’s list contains the elements it does in a kind of grab bag fashion. But it still has a material basis, itself being a response to a crisis within capitalism. Would highly recommend The Jakarta Method for further reading on what people are discussing in your replies and in this thread.
  
  A much better read on how fascism inevitably arises out of liberal capitalism https://orgrad.wordpress.com/articles/liberalism-the-two-faced-tyranny-of-wealth/

What kind of ship?
- Hardship most likely

Yeah but ours is "good fascism" 😆

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