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Merlu @kbin.social

Wich fictional character is unfairly hated by the public ?

In my opinion, Abby from TLOU 2. During the first part of the game, she is portrayed as the bad girl, but when she become the playable character, you understand that she isn't:

Her father and friends were unnecessarly killed.
She became pariah from her clan when she saved a member of a rival clan.
She have been harschly tortured.
She spared Ellie despite having occasions to kill her for understandable reasons.

I don't get why many players didn't changed their minds at the second part of the game, it's so obvious that the real bad people are Ellie and Joël. Theres no problem about having sympathy for bad guys, but you must keep your critical mind.

And what infuriates me is that people even harassed the voice actress because of what her character did. Come on, guys !

64 comments

  • i'm only a couple of seasons in to breaking bad but i truly don't understand why skylar is so hated. i think she's reacting not only rationally but startlingly calmly considering the circumstances.

    • I feel like it's because of really good writing. Walter is objectively a bad guy. He's committing crimes, he's making a dangerous and highly addictive drug, he's killing people, just because he's too proud to accept help from his former colleagues. But the writing is great, the acting is incredible, so we see Walter from his own perspective--as the hero of the story. Skylar's not appreciating him as a hero, she's upset with him for putting the family at risk. When Skylar reacts reasonably to Walt's behavior, it makes us mad because it makes Walt mad.

      • Also, purely from a mechanical standpoint, her character’s goal is effectively to prevent the premise of the story from playing out, which is the exact opposite of what the viewers want.

      • i think it is easy to get caught up in this kind of thinking, i agree, but the show itself does an excellent job of showing contrast by really displaying the ripple effect that walter's actions have

    • At the core it really is sexism. A male character criticizing the main male character's shitty behavior would not get nearly the rage that Skylar got.

      Honestly it is a testament to the writing and the actress on making the character being reasonable so anger inducing.

      • the writing really is fantastic but i think i really lost all sympathy for walter when he tried to assault skylar. i'd also like to add that, while not an excuse, the whirlwind of hormones a pregnant woman would be experiencing makes it nothing short of a miracle skylar managed to keep a lid on everything

    • The show is about a guy going down the crime route, and Skylar is an obstacle to that. From the viewer perspective, Walter is fun to watch, he's doing something cool. Cooking Meth is cool. But then comes that boring character that nags him about "morality". Boooringgggg, who the hell does this chick thinks she is? I came to watch a show about a guy going in a downward spiral, why is she nagging?

      Pardon my "monkey brain" thought process description lol. My point is that from what I've seen, people tend to dislike characters that stand in the way of the protagonist doing the main thing that he's supposed to be doing.

      For example, Chichi from Dragon Ball, Goku's wife, tends to be disliked because she "nags" Goku. Her "nagging" tends to be basically reminding him that he's a father and has responsibilities, like helping out at home and financially. It's a shounen so it was always overlooked, but technically Chichi is the only one managing finances, and they've been living off only from her father's wealth. Wealth that eventually starts to run out at the end of the Z series iirc. Goku, for all intents and purposes, is a terrible family man.

      But, it's a fighting show. It's about Goku and his friends fighting bad guys. So people don't like when characters detract from that objective, so they hate those characters, even if they are actually being the reasonable ones.

      • i get the point you're trying to make but goku and walter white are quite fundamentally different characters lol

    • Same reason people rooted for Nancy in Weeds. Fictional works don't have the same logic and morality of real life applied to them, since audiences wish for things that they wouldn't wish to happen in real life. Like who says my current life is too boring and these people I like are redundant need to be written out, and there needs to be something tragic that happens because everything is too happy right now.

  • I think it's died down some in recent years, but Tom Nook from animal crossing. They've done a lot to try and make him even more friendly in recent games, but even in the first he sees a guy who ended up in his town who didn't have any plans, money, or even a place to stay. He decided to give that person a horse with a loan that had no interest and could be paid off at any time, and even gave him a few chores to pay him and help him meet the townspeople. Dude was super nice, but all everyone remembered was that you had to pay him money and so there's this version of the character in people's heads where he's this super mean and greedy guy.

    • He decided to give that person a horse with a loan

      I know it's a typo but that sounds like an awesome start to a western video game, regardless of how it's interpreted -- either getting a horse and a loan for supplies, a horse that needs to be paid for later, or a horse that took out a loan by some kind of paperwork error and now has more money than you. I'd play any of those.

      And also I'm with you, I think the funny jokes about Tom Nook took off into a smear campaign. Having no time limit, interest free, and also being in a world where money is everywhere and literally grows on trees makes it an amazing deal.

      • Haha, whoops, that's what I get for but proof reading. I agree, it's a very funny image, so I'll leave it as is!

  • I don't get why many players didn't changed their minds at the second part of the game, it's so obvious that the real bad people are Ellie and Joël. Theres no problem about having sympathy for bad guys, but you must keep your critical mind.

    I think one of the points of the story was that there aren't bad guys (or everyone is a bad guy, depends on how each person decides to see it). Joel was selfish for wanting to protect Ellie, Ellie was selfish for wanting revenge, and Abby went through with her revenge despite being begged not to. It's miserable story with miserable characters, there are no good guys.

    As for why so many players didn't change their minds, imo it's due to several factors but I mainly blame pacing. The cut-out at the middle of the game, at a climax moment no less, into a new story that takes around 12 hours, turned off a lot of people. I can see people not giving Abby a chance due to her story starting at an inopportune moment, after being invested in Ellie for around 10-12 hours.

    I don't think it would fix all issues, especially because communities about hating TLoU2 and/or Abby popped up before the game came out (and they still exist after 3 years (jesus christ)), but I can see Abby being less hated if her story was presented differently.

    Anyway, about the actual topic of the post, mine would be Pip from South Park. His only crime was that the other characters were far more interesting than him, so he was overshadowed. But somehow, it looks like some people actually hate him, even Trey Parker. Poor kid lol

    • I honestly don't trust the narrative opinions of anyone who thinks TLoU2 sucked. By proclaiming you don't like that game's narrative, you simply call yourself out as not understanding it. There are no good guys or bad guys in TLOU story - and that's the whole point. TLOU2 really turns the good vs evil narrative of the first game on its head after already turning the narrative on its head with the final scene of the first game. TLOU is entirely about what it takes for someone to give in to their worst impulses and how there's a monster in all of us; It's a showcase of the toxic and never-ending revenge cycle. TLOU2 really tied it all together perfectly by forcing empathy and understanding on the player. It's a game designed to consider empathy for all its characters, which some people clearly overlook because they aren't capable of that.

      • Just want to point out that you can understand a narrative, or the point of the writer, and still dislike it. It probably wasn't your intention but proclaiming that if someone doesn't like X then he doesn't understand it is a bit condescending; and kills any potential constructive discussion.

        Personally I don't think they nailed the execution. I already talked about pacing, but another issue for me was ludonarrative dissonance. It usually doesn't bother me, actually most times I don't even think about it, but in this game I was constantly aware of it.

        On one hand, it tells a heavy handed story about how violence and revenge are horrible, on the other it has a fun gameplay that allows me to experiment with killing enemies in different ways to see how the AI reacts.

        After I beat the game, I replayed the combat sections just for fun. The devs were probably also aware that they made good mechanics because I remember one of the cheats is having infinite bomb arrows. Me, walking around blowing up everyone like a badass, is definitely not the vibe that the writers were hoping for in their game, I expect.

        Hopefully they'll fix some of the issues the TV series. If they handle better the pacing, they'll have a really good show in their hands

  • I agree with most of your points except:

    1. Abbys dad was not killed unnecessarily, it was well deserved for trying to sacrifice an unconcsious girl with the excuse of 'not conplicating things'
    2. There are no real bad guys in the world of TLOU (except for david) almost everyone you see is just another survivor whose needs opposes yours

  • Some wrestlers. They're playing characters, but once in a while in some countries will get smacked by people because they think it's real.

  • In this thread: examples of characters who offended the precious sensibilities of right wing clowns. That's the common thread of 90% of examples if not more.

64 comments