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Illinoisan here, Pennsylvania and Idaho need to get their heads checked. I wouldn’t consider anything west of Kansas or east of Ohio(being generous there) as Midwest. Also just about anything south of the Missouri Compromise Line is a southern state, the Midwest is not the home of traitors.
Edit: correct mason Dixon to Missouri compromise
Wait until you see the Confederate flags in PA. Ya know, where the battle of Gettysburg happened. Very much not a southern state. It's wild seeing this shit in my neighborhood.
Confederate flags are in canada and California, it’s just a flag for racists to roleplay with, the confederacy won’t rise again anywhere.
It won't "rise again" but the spirit of it absolutely has resurfaced in other forms, and will continue too so long as a significant number of people in this country identify with white supremacy and abject hatred.
The original KKK were effectively the remnants of the Confederate army + new recruits. And it's continued to find new banners in the generations since.
It very much depends on what you mean when you say "the spirit of it," which I think you have to admit, is open to a lot of interpretation.
So much not a southern state that its bottom border is literally the Mason-Dixon line. Some people are, indeed, whack.
I have seen Confederate battle flags flying on trucks and houses in and around Gettysburg, no less. I get the impression that people are not doing this for historical reenactment purposes...
It's the racism. That's why.
Seriously. I live in the Cleveland area of Ohio. We are geographically closer to Canada than the Mason Dixon. There's still an abundance of hoople heads flying confederate flags.
I saw more Confederate battle flags in Indianapolis than Atlanta. Fuck Indianapolis.
Even worse are the ones I see flying in West Virginia – you know, the state that only exists because its inhabitants didn't want to secede along with the rest of Virginia.
It means something else to those who fly them, generally speaking. Think Dukes of Hazzard more than Slavery.
Not saying its right, but thats how they see it.
I don't think that's anywhere close to universally true but even if it is that's only one more example of why we should never listen to those kinds of people. That opinion is dumb, inaccurate, shallow, and more than a little white-washed.
This is similar to the line my neighbor tried to pull. He had one of those half-and-half flags that was the US flag on one side and Confederate battle flag on the other. Somebody came by in the dead of night and stole it. It became a big hoopla on the block. He tried to tell me, "It's got nothing to do with racism. It's just a rebel flag because we're just rebels in general and ain't nobody tell us what to do."
So have an anarchy flag or fly the Jolly Roger or something instead. For fuck's sake. I don't know if he actually believes that line of shit, or if it's just a cover. (He also has a Trump election sign, one of those corrugated plastic ones, stuck in his screen door. So I suspect the latter.)
It absolutely doesn't mean Dukes of Hazzard, lmao.
No, it's actually true that a lot of people don't really think it through. I personally talked a friend out of flying it by appealing to how it might make others feel. It honestly hadn't really occurred to him. Now granted, said friend is semi-literate at best, but he is a genuinely kind and decent human being who just didn't know anything else.
South of the Mason-Dixon Line includes almost half of your own state of Illinois, and multiple other states that remained loyal to the union.
Did you perhaps mean to refer to the 36°30′ parallel that was used in the Missouri Compromise?
Personally I'm more worried about the 3% of Iowa who doesn't consider itself the Midwest.
Yes the Illinois/Missouri/Iowa group could be nothing other than Midwest, I don’t know how those aren’t 100%. We’re the poster children of Midwest
Missouri is pretty Southern culturally, due to all the racism.
Oh I know, I live here, it’s still IN the Midwest though. STL and KC are at least decent cities, the rest of the state is horrible though
similarly, there's a good chunk of Southern Illinois that is basically indistinguishable from Kentucky.. same for Indiana..
my guess is that the 4.7% of missourians saying no are all in the ozarks/boot heel
Nah, they can’t read
There's a big cultural divide for Illinois, Chicago isn't very "Midwest" compared to downstate.
You are indeed correct, my bad it’s early where I’m at lol
That map for the Mason-Dixon Line is not correct. The original line was at that latitude but it ended at modern day West Virginia. It was the line of demarcation between Pennsylvania, Virginia, Delaware and Maryland. It was used in congressional debate during and after the the Missouri Compromise to refer to the line of division between slave states and free states which lead to an unofficial expansion. Since the 1820s it has been understood to move directly north from it's original endpoint until it hits the Ohio River then to follow the river west to the Mississippi River then to travel along the eastern, northern and western borders of Missouri. It ends on the 36°30' parallel and extends straight west through the Louisiana Purchase. The 36°30' line was applicable in the territories but not among the states. The Mason Dixon was the line of separation among the states.
https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-events/mason-dixon-line.htm
Central Illinoisan here, and I’m pretty sure the half of Illinois south of the Mason-Dixon Line is the South, not the Midwest.
Well, Pittsburgh is culturally midwest even if they aren't geographically so.
it was settled by a lot of the same type of Germans who continued west from there during the mid 19th Century.. and its proximity to Cleveland has always sort of made it the easternmost Midwestern city..
Aside from the Browns/Steelers rivalry, I don’t get why there is so much animosity between people in the two cities. Having lived there for a couple of years after growing up in NEOhio, I miss Pittsburgh, and there’s a lot of commonality to be shared there.
Pittsburgh is geographically midwest as well. The Appalachians were the historical eastern border of the Midwest.
We're way too confrontational to be culturally midwest.
Haven't been to much of the Midwest, then, I guess
I figured it was mostly passive aggressiveness rather than aggressiveness. Michigan has it too but I chalked that up to rust-belt overlap.
Could be; I'm in Chicago, so what I see is just active aggressiveness, haha.
Philly, on the other hand, is culturally... Philly.
I view Pittsburgh as honorary Midwestern territory. It's a fantastic city, too.
Then y’all need to get Ohio to stop giving northern Kentucky Skyline chili if you don’t want them to be somewhat midwestern and southern at the same time. But you damn right about Idaho, culturally they’re closer to Floridian that anything else
I’ve never given Ohio anything other than ridicule lol and Kentucky is southern so them influencing Ohio would be trying to make them southern but they’re bordering Canada so that doesn’t work.
Ohio really just doesn’t fit anywhere well
Pennsylvania does seem to be really far east for anyone to legit think that they're in the Midwest, but I haven't had the pleasure of visiting, yet, and don't know much about the people there. I can offer some perspective on a couple states that aren't exactly Midwest states:
Eastern Colorado is geographically and culturaly indistinguishable from Kansas, so I can see how people living in that area could consider it being the Midwest.
Since Oklahoma, my home state, was mostly just Native American territories it wasn't really part of either side of the civil war and so I think a lot of today's population don't want to be associated with the south and its history. I personally would hate to be called a southerner, but I don't think midwesterner is necessarily the right fit either.
Pennsylvanian here, sorry we have a lot of dumb people.
I once worked with a person from Ohio who thought Ohio was the furthest WEST Midwest state.
Map literacy is hard I guess
I don’t think Ohio is mid west.. I know(think) it had something to do with the original 13 colonies but at this point the naming conventions need to change definitions.
Not really. Midwest is more west of Appalachia, north of slave states, and east of the Rockies. It’s the land between the mountain ranges
Ohio was not one of the original 13 colonies
Pretty sure they're implying that the region west of the 13 colonies was called the Midwest, not that Ohio was considered the Midwest because it was one of the original colonies...
That leaves the majority of the country as the Midwest then and that doesn’t make a lot of sense. Really trying to make states fit into 3/4 designations doesn’t work, we need to split them into like 8 to make sense
So originally anything west of the Appalachian mountains was called the west. Then as they explored more of the land and gained territories the line that defined the west moved to the Mississippi, making the territories between the Appalchians and Mississippi the Midwest.
Now the regions are split based on census data, and there are huge swaths of land in the West and Midwest that are sparsely populated so they are larger regions in size.
It makes sense if you actually look into it and take a 5 minute google search to learn about it.
Sure, but designations from 200 years ago are irrelevant to a modern nation spanning a continent with colonies and military bases spanning the globe. To call everything west of the Appalachian mountains “the west” is nonsense now
