2w ago

Limited Freedom

201 comments

5 Democrats are cosponsors:
Josh Gottheimer - NJ-5
Jared Moskowitz - FLA-23
Joseph Morrell - NY-25
Donald Davis - NC-1
Laura Gillen - NY-4
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/867/all-info
- Dear lord. Why are Dems getting involved in pushing fascism?
  
  There have always been liberal collaborators to fascism, this isn't new.
  
  Yes, which is why we should vote against democrats forever!!!
  TRUMP 2028!!!
  Edit: Y'All learned nothing from history.
  German communist accelerationists went into the oven just like everyone else.
  
  The German communists went in the oven because the German liberals betrayed their country, empowering nazis to secure their own positions. The idea that 'the nazis using communists as an excuse to do a fascism is the communists fault' is 80 year old fascist propaganda.
  
  Who said all Democrats? These specific few are voting against us.
  
  German communist accelerationists went into the oven just like everyone else.
  Lmao. Yep, but not the liberal collaborators. Convenient for them, too - not just because they didn't die but because they got rid of those pesky communists.
  
  they dont care about the fascism aspect, they care that it guarantees them their seats, just like %90 of all the politicians.
  
  Same as it ever was
  
  The American government platform. Don't try to single out the Dems for this.
  
  Idk, I think the dems have a bit more culpability than people want to admit since they aren't just committing the same war crimes as the republicans, but suppressing the opposition to it in their own party, too.
  Not that republicans wouldn't do the same thing if any opposition existed within their own base to begin with, but democrats are doing it even as they know their base actively resents them for it. That says something extra about their culpability.
  
  Maybe, but when they went too hard, he applied pressure. Trump offered to take over and help in the genocide (Middle East Riviera plan).
  Democrats are not good, but unfortunately, those idiots are temporarily needed to dump out the fascists.
  Politics in FPTP is a bit like a bus, and if you cannot get a bus where you need to go, get one in roughly the right direction.
  The amount of "Genocide Joe" Lemmyers who helped cement genocide Trump are complicit in what is effectively a mass starvation. At least Biden tried to step in with supplies when Israel stopped last time.
  
  Biden gave zero genuine pressure to end the genocide. Instead of implementing a weapons embargo, he sent tens of billions worth of weapons used to prolong the genocide.
  One Year of Empty Rhetoric From the White House on Israel’s Wars
  From the MEMO article:
  The Biden administration allowed Israel unprecedented leeway to carry out its military offensive, despite the enormous death and devastation it inflicted on Gaza. Former Israeli ambassador, Michael Herzog, made a startling admission about Biden’s support: “God did the State of Israel a favour that Biden was the president during this period. We fought [in Gaza] for over a year and the administration never came to us and said, ‘ceasefire now.’ It never did. And that’s not to be taken for granted.” His remarks encapsulated a broader sentiment that the White House gave Benjamin Netanyahu all the political space he needed to execute the military offensive, which has claimed the lives of more than 52,000 Palestinians, mainly women and children.
  Even the proposal to ethnically cleanse the entire population of Gaza, or 'empty Gaza of palesinians,' by removing them to neighboring countries, was first proposed by the Biden admin behind closed doors
  The diplomat said Egypt rejected similar proposals from the Biden administration and European countries early in the war, which was sparked by Hamas’ Oct. 7, 2023 attack into southern Israel. The earlier proposals were broached privately, while Trump announced his plan at a White House press conference alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
  https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-egypt-trump-displacement-bc1c43f80655190824a5de4eb1d310cc
  
  When Israel went too hard on siege he did try to step in. Not enough, but the attempted but failed aid pier was far more than Trump has done or would do.
  Also, he pressured and got a crossing reopened "Within hours of Mr Biden's call, Israel said it would open the Erez crossing in northern Gaza and the port of Ashdod in southern Israel to aid, and pledged to drastically improve security co-ordination with groups delivering assistance to Palestinians."
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68773400
  As I made clear, I'm not defending Biden or claiming he's good. Thousands have died and I fear if the situation doesn't change soon, I fear it could be a magnitude of 10 higher. Trump is showing zero signs of any pressure. If anything, he cheers Israel on. It absolutely disturbs me, that through resentment of Biden folks would rather see Trump stay in and have hundreds of thousands of more Gazans die through starvation.
  I will say, those that keep propping Trump up are complicit in this. If starvation is happening and you don't want change, you want this situation.
  
  The aid pier never delivered aid. Instead it delivered a clandestine military operation hidden inside aid trucks. Which of course is a war crime.
  The "aid pier" was a smokescreen and only served for facilitating a war crime.
  
  Source?
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_floating_pier
  On June 8, 2024, Israel initiated a military action that rescued 4 hostages and killed 274 Palestinians (mostly civilians), according to Gaza Health Authorities. While the United States acknowledged assisting Israel in the operation, it denied that the floating pier was used.[10] A video emerged on social media showing an Israeli Black Hawk helicopter close to the pier picking up IDF soldiers and hostages.[104] The video also shows military equipment, including a US counter-drone system, on the pier.[10]
  The Popular Resistance Committees in Gaza released a statement in which it "confirms the participation of American enemy forces stationed on the floating dock" to conduct an attack on the Nuseira refugee camp.[11] Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor said IDF didn't just evacuate using the pier and that it was likely that the IDF entered into Gaza using the pier as well.[105] United States officials told CBS News reporters that the video appearing to show the helicopter taking off from the beach near the pier, showed the helicopter landing south of the facility and not within the cordoned off area adjacent to pier.[104]
  Shortly after the rescue operation, it was announced that the United Nations World Food Program would pause all of its work with the pier, until a security review and review of how the IDF may have utilized the pier was completed. During the review, undistributed humanitarian aid remained on the beach, as the UN worked to transfer it to warehouses and local aid teams within Gaza.[106]
  Saying "never" for delivering aid was not entirely correct. Apparently it delivered two days of aid worth in over three months accorsung to the US military. However iirc. there was issues with the aid being delivered on land and then blocked from actual distribution by Israel. One of the key groups destined to distribute the aid, Woeld Central Kitchen had one of their clearly markes and coordinated convoy bombed repeatedly by Israel, murdering 7 humanitarian workers.
  The Financial Times estimated less than 600 trucks of aid were delivered via the pier, about two days of aid to Gaza before the war, calling the pier a "colossal failure".[112]
  At a press conference on July 11, US President Biden said he was disappointed with the failures in providing aid through the Gaza floating pier.[113]
  
  Thanks for the detailed response.
  
  The first link mentions and puts into context everything you mention and much more. Tens to hundreds of thousands have died under Biden's watch alone, he is a committed Zionist. The actions were performative and used as a way to justify the ongoing material support for the genocide. You are defending Biden here, you even grossly minimized the death count, not to mention the total destruction of the educational, medical, and historical sites within Gaza.
  Pro-palestinian advocates have been pointing this out for the entire duration of the genocide under the Biden admin because it has been clear that a change in foreign policy to a weapons embargo was critical to both end the ceasefire and significantly increase the chances of the Democratic Party to win against Trump. The party's decision to instead prioritize support for the genocide over focusing on earning as many votes as possible to win against Trump was deliberate. Corporate interests and neoliberalism are responsible for Democrats adoption of fascist policies and controlled opposition to the fascism of the Republican party. The Democratic Party has gone against the will of the vast majority of their constituents, gone against international law, and against the morality of opposing genocide.
  There is no excuse.
  Manufactured consent for genocide is completely unacceptable.
  The rhetoric coming out of the White House, when it has been focused on peace or restraint, rather than continuous war, has been undercut at every turn by its actions. The constant supply of weapons — $17.9 billion of bullets, bombs, shells, and other military aid in the past year — has allowed Israel to keep waging its war on Gaza, and in recent weeks, expand that war to Lebanon and threaten to escalate its conflict with Iran. Despite documentation of U.S. weapons being used in probable war crimes, and credible allegations that Israel is committing genocide in its war on Gaza, the bombs have continued to flow.
  
  You've side stepped my key points, so I'll ask them directly.
  Do you prefer Trump or the Dems?
  Do you see any realistic alternative to the Dems and Trump?
  By all means, send Biden to the ICC later, but the current situation cannot continue. No aid is getting in. This is about as bad as it gets. There are millions of Gazans at risk right now. Are you happy with this situation right now?
  
  I didn't side step shit, you just missed the entire point of my comment.
  My position has been consistent for months.
  https://lemmy.world/comment/13374059
  https://lemmy.world/comment/13088061
  Do you prefer Trump or the Dems?
  I support progressives. I don't prefer any form of fascism. I vote Dem out of harm reduction, but I have no illusions about the fascism that has become baked into even the Democratic Party, the party that is supposed to represent the working class and be an opposition to fascism.
  Do you see any realistic alternative to the Dems and Trump?
  The avenues are a dramatic shift of the Democratic Party from neoliberalism and corporate interests to progressive policies and Democratic socialism, one the establishment Democrats are fighting against tooth and nail; or armed struggle. I support all avenues of opposition to fascism, from legislative to armed revolution.
  Are you happy with this situation right now?
  Why the fuck would I be happy about genocide and fascism??? If you took a glance at my output on Lemmy and somehow came to that conclusion, you need help.
  Instead of trying to understand my point, you cynically try to use the genocide as a 'gotcha' which is so incredibly fucking gross and inhumane.
  
  Delayed response, but I was pleasantly surprised by your pragmatism. The vibe I got from your previous posts was very different. Many on Lemmy could not demonstrate the same level of pragmatism when it really counts and sometimes it's easy to conclude that here.
  I will say, anyone that believes the Democratic party is supposed to represent the working class is probably being a little naive in that instance. It's been captured by corporate interests for a long time. It's just less shit version of corporate interests. I'm not even from the US, but I'd still vote for them if I was. Of course, primaries are a good way to apply pressure.
  Things could have been very different on many things if Bernie won.
  
  Thanks, I have also noticed that many are uninterested in the nuance, especially during the election cycle. Many are committed to the team sports aspect and consider any criticism of the Dem party or their positions to be tantamount to betrayal, as if those criticisms must come from some secret conservative or Russian operative masquerading as a progressive.
  I also noticed progressives that would refuse to vote Dem for their pro-genocide stance, which I find completely understandable. However, just as the Dems were ignoring the grassroots pressure during the primary, they would also completely ignore any and all protest votes. Harm reduction is the only argument for voting Dem regardless of their right-wing stance on certain issues (foreign policy, immigration), which is a correct argument and why I advocated for others to vote Dem regardless.
  But this argument also only works for some high propensity voters who do get the pragmatism of the situation. I noticed many were unwilling to accept that the vast majority of the voter population don't vote like that, and are unable to be convinced to vote that way.
  They need a strong stance on policy that benefit them in some way, more of the status-quo will never cut it when the majority of people are fed up with the status-quo. It's a systemic issue. Besides the voter suppression aspect, it's entirely on the campaign to make those strong popular stances on policy. Door knockers can't outflank the top-line messaging. And yeah, it all goes back to the party being captured by corporate interests. It's just irritating to see people focus the blame on voters instead of the administration.
  People voting against their self-interest is as old as voting itself. People need to be convicted and captivated. This is why I try to stress how the only effective counter to Right Populism is Left Populism. Once populism is on the rise, those are the only options to mobilize. As the Dems continue to ignore left populism, right populism is the only avenue available for people to channel their frustrations with the status-quo towards. Yet, all it'll take to turn the tide in a massive way, is that Left Populist candidate. I have my hopes on AOC. But if the party continues to side line her, I can't see any electoral way out of fascism. At some point, it will no longer be an option.
  That's also why I extend my support to both electoral reform and armed struggle. Not because armed struggle is preferred, it's a last resort; but after learning the history of anti colonialism in the global south, armed struggle cannot be ignored. I'm glad I've come across the works of Franz Fanon. His works have opened my understanding of many things I wouldn't have even questioned seeing things from a western lenses.
  
  Well this is 5 people. You cannot really compare these 5 with AOC for example.
  The only way Trump goes is through Democrats right now. It's unfortunate, but unfortunately a fact.
  I'm not defending Dems or think they are good, but it is the only realistic play right now.
  
  Wer hat uns verraten…? Sozialdemokraten…
- Are they considered Isreali products🤔
  
  Yes. You will be required by law to purchase Josh Gottheimer.
- Prime list of people to oust in the primaries

201 comments