Nexus Mods Fine With Bigots Leaving Over Removed Starfield ‘Pronoun’ Mod
Nexus Mods Fine With Bigots Leaving Over Removed Starfield ‘Pronoun’ Mod
The site says it stands for ‘diversity and inclusion' and wants to promote a ‘positive modding community’
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Removing the mod is imposing a political viewpoint, and it's also completely performative. Why should NexusMods care if the mod exists? Everybody mods their games at their own consent.
No non-conforming people were protected by this move.
No non-conforming people were protected by this move.
By taking this down, NexusMods communicated that they care about non-conforming people far more than if they had just said it. They are creating an environment where bigotry is removed rather than accepted. Nobody is saying you can't be a bigot in private with your game, we are saying if you're going to be a bigot we don't want you to do it here with us because we care about the people you are excluding/hurting.
Rejecting gender ideology isn't bigotry. Removing it from a game where its present also isn't bigotry. Removing the mod is just performative slacktivism and does nothing to help anyone.
Yall said the same shit about gay people a couple years ago. It was all the same talking points, it's just slightly modded to fit trans people now. It was bigotry then, it's bigotry now.
Said what shit? When? What are you even talking about?
Treating people being gay as political.
Yup, back then it was “the gay agenda.”
Same shit, different day.
It's the alphabet mafia who are treating people being gay as political, not conservatives.
Using a pejorative name to refer to LGBT... you're not helping your argument with that one.
When I say "the alphabet mafia," I'm not talking about gay people, bisexual people, etc. I'm referring to the bully activists who go around stirring shit and spreading lies about society and claim to represent gay and bisexual (etc.) people.
Read: 'I don't hate gay people, I just hate people who tell me to stop ranting against gay people.'
I mean, look— I don't like holier-than-thou activists either, but you need to make a distinction between them, actual activists, and the groups they're representing. The former is an extreme minority.
Instead of being distrustful of the movement and making yourself look like an ass by preemptively attacking, your energy is better spent not bothering. In the event you encounter a nutjob, go troll them or tell them to pound sand. I promise you, as long as you aren't on (formerly Twitter) or Tumblr circa 2016, it's not as common as you think.
Being black isn't political, until bigots like you make it political.
Being female isn't political, until bigots like you make it political.
Being queer isn't political, until bigots like you make it political.
Every "identity" I've ever been given has come through violent conservative oppression. Sometimes I'm the group they like - sometimes I'm the group they hate. But I've never fucking asked for the distinction.
Gender, religion, sexuality, ethnicity... these matter as much as hair color, until some asshole decides there's a right answer. Every flavor of "identity politics" that conservatives screech about is an abuse they invented and hurled at people until those victims stood up and shouted "Motherfucker I am."
You don't need pride until someone's tried to make you feel lesser.
Get our of our goddamn way, and stop imagining you're the good guy. You are the entire problem. You can stop, at any time.
So no one was homophobic before? The Stonewall Riots just happened because gay people were bored? The big numbers in hate crimes? The government openly saying that they wouldn't do anything about AIDs because it affected mostly gay people? I'm guessing it was gay people who wrote the laws that got us kicked out of the military. And made it so we couldn't get married.
I never said that and I don't believe that. But the people who fought for civil rights for gay people aren't today's alphabet mafia.
Oh, and the gay men who fought in the stonewall riots are the reason the G should have always come first, because it was gay men who set the foundation for civil rights for non-straight people. Not the alphabet mafia, and not lesbians.Lol You don't even know the basic history behind Stonewall or the queer community in general.
Thanks for proving my point.
State interference with and regulation of marriage is, and always was, an abomination. Marriage is a religious and societal institution, and the state only got involved to prevent miscegeny.
The Christian church isn't going to recognize gay weddings, but anyone else is welcome to.
I'd be happy to advocate with you in the pursuit of getting the state out of marriage.And since the state has been involved for a long time, that means it should be open to anyone. Just as it's been open to others such as atheists. They weren't doing it for religious purposes. Nor were kings and queens when they would marry their children to unite kingdoms. Or people who basically married their children in exchange for cattle.
My point isn't to get the state out of marriage since at this point it is more so a legal document and something that couples do out of love for each other. But the idea that it's a religious thing is ridiculous. Not to mention its hardly an argument since that means that gay people have even more rights to get married, since some church's, including Christian ones, will do it. If anything the idea that being gay is a sin has been slowly falling out of Christianity in the same way that interracial marriages were something many Christians were against at one point. So the idea that it's somehow an argument against same sex marriage is absolutely false, and would only open the doors even more. It doesn't even have to be religious. Being married is just being married.
"But some church's wouldn't count it!" Funny. I was raised Mormon. According to them most straight marriages don't count either since they weren't don't in a Mormon temple. I don't see others complaining that their church doesn't recognize it.
Not only was this just moving the goal post, but it also is one that has been discussed many times and has always been torn apart.
I think kinship ties should be and should have always been available to declare or establish at the state level, and calling it a marriage just confuses the issue. I also don't think it should be restricted to couples, either, but it is.
I think the churches should have their business and the state should have its own business. Modern marriage really only serves to invite the state into the bedroom, so I don't even think about it as something that should be fought for. I mean, have at it if you want it, but I think you'll find that it just invites more problems than it solves. I don't recommend anyone ever get married in 2023.
Marriage refers to two things - (1) a legal contract between two people, mediated by the state, and (2) societal and/or religious acceptance of two people as a married couple. Nowadays, in most parts of the world, only the first matters for most purposes. So the state should recognise all marriages, but religions and society are free to have their own conditions as long as they do not harass people they don't like.
What does Alex Jones' dick taste like?
Everything you guys say about trans people.
"Biology!"
Heard that
"It's a fad!"
Heard that
"It's mental illness!"
Heard that
"Society is gonna crumble!"
Heard that
It's everything. Everything. Everything. Let me repeat, everything. Even down to shit like should ____ be in the military or the bathrooms or sports?
Everything. It was bigotry back then. Its bigotry now.
You have a very loose definition of bigotry.
No. You're just a bigot who doesn't like to think they are. You like the ideas, but have a problem when a negative term gets attached to it. It's like when people weren't "racist." They were "race realists." It was racism with a new logo. Similar to how when people were homophibic, it wasn't "bigotry", it was "Think of the children" and "the gay agenda."
Being hateful or disapproving of a demographic of people based on their identity?
gender ideology
Nice of you to out yourself as one of the bigots. Only bigots with an agenda use that phrasing.
Everybody has an agenda. Gender ideologues are the bigots, not those who reject it. Gender ideologues maintain their fantasy of not being a bigot by accusing everyone around them of not only shit they aren't guilty of, but shit the ideologue, themselves, are guilty of. Gender ideologues are sick people, and everyone around them is not the way they say they are.
Black people were the real bigots for wanting to use the same bathroom as white people.
Did you like to huff gasoline as a child?
Today's gender ideology and race baiting bullshit have nothing to do with actual civil rights. Today's race-baiters are literally, openly calling for segregation.
It's the exact same. You think trans problems are dumb, you don't understand why "separate but equal" is problematic, and you spent too much time licking lead paint in your formative years.
"I'm not a bigot for refusing to accept you, you're a bigot for refusing to accept that I won't accept you!"
Lol. Lmao even.
Touch grass, dude.
Rejecting bigotry is not supposed to be a political viewpoint.
Addendum: "YourContentSucks" just went through my profile and downvoted everything lol what a cuck A2: Actually now that I think of it the username does kind of check out
What rock did you sleep under? It’s ALWAYS been a political viewpoint.
is not supposed to be
Then that’s just naive.
Rejecting gender ideology isn't bigotry. Also, like I said, nobody installs mods they don't want. It literally affects zero people who don't want it to affect them.
Rejecting gender ideology isn't bigotry.
Referring to a demographic as an ideology generally is bigotry, though.
Okay, but nobody has done that.
"Gender ideology" is doing exactly that.
Referring to gender ideology as gender ideology is putting a tidy label to a set of ideas, and makes no reference to any people whatsoever.
No, sorry, I'm not willing to play your stupid little word game where you try to semantically differentiate a demographic from the "ideology" that that demographic meaningfully exists and should have the right to pursue happiness in society.
The set of ideas that you refer to includes the ideas that transgender people exist as transgender, and non-binary people exist as non-binary.
The only choice involved in being trans is the choice to let everyone else know (or not). They are a demographic, not an ideology.
The concept of "trans" is part of gender ideology. They are people with an identity disorder. Conceptualizing them as "trans" can only exist if you subscribe to the concept of gender in the first place, and gender only exists as an abstraction in the minds of gender ideologues (and people who don't know any better, who have been duped by gender ideologues).
False. Like, completely and totally wrong. The science is clear, and you are on the side opposite of it. There are experts on one side, and you on the other. It is amazing just how many incorrect statements you are barfing out.
Gender fundamentally isn't a matter of science. It's a matter of society. We can draw divisions wherever we, as a collective, feel makes the most sense, as narrow or wide as we like, even not at all.
You yourself just did
How come you're only defending the people putting this hateful shit on there? You aren't impressing anybody on here by "seeing both sides" if you're only seeing the modders side.
Nexus removed a mod that may be (and has obviously been, because otherwise nobody would be making posts about it) perceived as hateful by others and you're over here defending the modders that put that shit on there because "it's political" from Nexus to take the obviously political mod down.
On the other hand you're probably the type preaching about "Well Twitter is allowed to encourage hate speech on their site because it's their website and they're allowed to do whatever they want, you don't have to use it if you feel attacked by that", but Nexus is not? Nexus' site-wide rules don't count because they're "pushing leftist agenda" by removing mods that were never allowed there to begin with?
"Why should NexusMods care if the mods exist?" why do you care so much if it doesn't exist any longer? If you feel that attacked by the removal of an anti-pronouns mod you can just make a new one yourself or download it from somewhere else. Or just not give a fuck/be happy like every other normal functioning human being.
Would you care as much as to reply to this post, if they had instead instead removed a mod that added pronouns to a game? Would that not be imposing political views as well then? Or would you just not care because you care more about making non-binary people feel excluded rather than included?
You're not making a point here. We are making this network a place that is inclusive to people all over the gender spectrum. Defending those that do not, is not making a point.
I do not care to read any more of your replies as your points are easily dismantled even by someone that's as stupid as I am.
If you do reply, just say yes or no to the following question, that I had posed earlier: Would you care this much if they had removed a mod that added pronouns to a game?
Try to think as hard as you can, I do not want to read any excuse for either answer. Just imagine yourself in that situation and tell me.It's not hateful shit, and I'm not trying to "see both sides," either. I have no quarter for gender ideologues. However, I do think that any person or business (that doesn't have any kind of monopoly status over critical services) has the freedom to refuse to serve anyone they want for any reason they want, so GN is free to take down whatever they want and they don't really owe any of us an explanation.
And, really, I'm not defending the people who made the mod and put it up. They don't really need a defense. I'm just pointing out that the removal of it makes GN either petty activists, or scared of the left.
Obviously gender ideologues perceive it as hateful, but so what? Gender ideologues perceive literally anything they disagree with, no matter how slightly as hateful. It's their entire brand. Would GN host mods for a game if the game itself was "hateful?" Absolutely not. And if a mod whose only function is to remove the ability to arbitrarily select your pronouns is hateful, then why isn't every single game which is supported on GN that does not offer that functionality considered hateful and have all support for it removed? The answer is simple: GN are petty activists and this is performative.
My views on Twitter (et al) haven't changed even after its ownership changed hands from someone who I don't like to someone who I don't like a little bit less. Not that it's on-topic, but I think platforms like Twitter need to decide if they are publishers or platforms and then play by the rules set forth for those that they decided to be, no mixing and matching. §230 of Title 47 needs an overhaul.
I really don't care that much about the mod and this event, in part because I can't afford the game nor the hardware needed to run it. But, I do have opinions on gender ideology and the behavior of public-facing organizations with respect to gender ideology.
I'll reiterate my point: GN are petty activists (or afraid of the left).
Yes, I would care the exact same amount. It's crummy behavior, no matter where it comes from. I can exist in the presence of ideas I don't agree with. I don't have the urge to stamp out, by fiat or coercion, every trace of any belief that differs from mine.What is a "gender ideologue"?
Another way for him to say "all those things that aren't white/male/tradwife."
I don’t have the urge to stamp out, by fiat or coercion, every trace of any belief that differs from mine.
Says diet Nazi unironically, at end of whiny manifesto against "[x] Mr [ ] Mrs" in a video game.
You're a bigot and you need to fucking leave.
Go climb a tree. You're a stereotype.
More than anything, I wish your kind cared what words mean.
Tldr, wanted yes/no, fuck off kindly.
So you're upset that he treated your rant with question marks as questions and now you're to pissy to participate?
Yes, you did. Don't lie.
Nexus mods has no responsibility to host an asshole's dickery on their servers.
No one was benefited by your comment.
True, but the act does show everybody that they are political activists. Either that, or they're afraid of the left. Either way, it's worth pointing out. It carves out a space for competition.
It's not political activitism to be a half decent human being.
Removing the mod doesn't make Nexus decent human beings. It makes them petty activists who can't bear the thought of the existence of people who don't subscribe to the same ideology as they do.
Meanwhile, you're a petty commenter who can't bear the thought of the existence of people who host their own website with their own rules.
Please google the “paradox of intolerance.”
Lmao, bruh we already know you're an asshole, you don't have to explicitly say you put your ideology above treating people with dignity and respect, we got it.
Good. Let them tell everyone they're not fascists and dont support them. Most of us will support that.
Be real, the alphabet mafia will go after their ISP and call in bomb threats and get them SWATted.
Do you have a source of this being a thing that has happened in thr past?
True, but the act does show everybody that they are political activists.
Good.
If 'trans people exist' is a political viewpoint, it's the kind that only monsters disagree with.
Some questions have a right answer.
This has literally nothing to do with politics
It's literally gender ideology politics. Outside of that, there is zero reason to take down the mod. It harms nobody. It doesn't even violate their own TOS.
Gender ideology isn’t a political stance, wtf are you talking about?
This is the equivalent of me making a mod that removes all black people and calling it a political statement.
Gender ideology is literally sexual politics. The inclusion of the ability to select your pronouns (as opposed to what, I don't know, them being fixed according to the sex of the generated character?) is sexual politics. Modding that choice out is sexual politics. Removing the mod is sexual politics. Every action taken by all parties in this story is sexual politics.
Sexual Politics - the principles determining the relationship of the sexes; relations between the sexes regarded in terms of power.
Now, tell me where removing the options for pronouns in a video game fits within that definition.
Apparently you can just add “politics” to the end of anything to try and justify discrimination. My mod that removes all black people from the game is just “race politics”, so it’s okay!
All of gender ideology is sexual politics. It's an attack on the conceptual model of the sexes as they are intuitively understood — an attempt to hijack the language that is used to describe the sexes in an attempt to push gender ideology into the mainstream.
I’m sorry man, I wish I could help you. But this… I think you’re in a bit too deep.
Nobody is “hijacking” anything, and nobody is forcefully pushing ideologies on anyone. It’s as simple as groups of people wanting to be treated just as well as anyone else - it’s not any more complicated than that.
I hope eventually you find your way out of this.
Someone posted the section it violates further up in the thread.
It does:
Content that may be generally construed as provocative, divisive, objectionable, discriminatory, or abusive toward any real-world individual or group, may be subject to moderation. This includes but is not limited to content involving politics, race, religion, gender identity, sexuality, or social class. We tolerate content related to real world issues and events as long as the appropriate tag ("Real World Issues") is used and the content is handled in a tasteful, respectful, and non-inflammatory manner. Users who do not wish to see such content should make use of our content blocking feature.
And it is their platform, that's why they care. They can dictate what is and isn't allowed there.
They can dictate what is and isn’t allowed there
Having the right to do something does not make doing so inherently justified.
Sure, but the question was why they care, and in this case it very much is justified.
Because the mod itself is intended as a form of political grandstanding. So that bigots can download it thousands of times and then hold it up and say 'look how many people are modding the woke out of BG3' in an attempt to discourage inclusive content in other titles.
Well, sure. Lots of people don't want woke garbage in their games. When it tops the download list the number of people who reject gender ideology is revealed. That's the real problem with it. It scares the shit out of the left because it breaks the illusion of social acceptance the left fights so ferociously to maintain by force and fiat.
Hi, woke garbage here. Very trans. Enby too. Just sitting here existing at you. Existing so hard, it probably hurts you just knowing about it. I hope it does, 'cause you're a prick and you deserve it .
He's so scared he didn't even reply. What an incredible superpower you have! Kinda jealous tbh :)
Wow, I'm the only person that bellend didn't reply to. I feel special 🤣 Everycritter else gets a fresh pile of horsecrap, I don't even get a downvote. Works fine for me, I guess.
They have been spamming me all night.
I asked them a yes or no question and they replied with a rant, that I still didn't bother to read (because they didn't reply with either "yes" or "no") and now they're accusing me of actually having read the rant. Very reasonable people 💀👍
Why would he reply to such a retarded attempt at trolling?
Well, sure. Lots of people don't want woke garbage in their games.
"Woke garbage" being things like "the existence of a type of people I think should not exist".
Again, with the "existence" thing. Obviously people exist, but arbitrary pronouns are woke garbage.
They're not arbitrary.
When you decide at your choosing what they are, instead of by a deterministic set of conditions, they are, by definition, arbitrary. That's what arbitrary means. It means you choose them.
Here's the thing: They are chosen by a deterministic set of conditions. Just because you don't understand what those conditions are does not make the terms arbitrary.
Also, that's not what "arbitrary" means, either. For somebody who seems to be so uptight about the definitions of words, you sure do invent a lot of your own definitions.
If I feel like eating pizza today, that desire comes from deterministic conditions. Me choosing to have pizza is still an arbitrary choice. If I had a cheeseburger instead of pizza because it's cheeseburger day, even if I want pizza, that's deterministic. You could argue that the schedule is arbitrary, and that's fair, but deciding for yourself what pronouns you are going to have used in your regard regardless of your sex is arbitrary.
You know gender and sex aren't the same thing, right?
Who am I kidding, of course you know. You just don't care about the difference, because reality is meaningless to you.
No, they are chosen by "I identify as..." and then they make their choice. That is literally arbitrary. I don't know how you have been using the word, but you could look it up in a dictionary to see how people have historically used the word.
they are chosen by "I identify as..."
So you acknowledge that there are deterministic sets of conditions after all. Great, we're making progress!
Also:
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system
It's not random choice or personal whim. There is a reason and a system. Again, just because you lack the understanding does not mean the rest of the world is as riddled with brain worms as you are.
Yes. Existence.
Trans people exist. Non-binary people exist. And they exist in ways that people refer to as "woke garbage".
Lots of people don't want woke garbage in their games.
They're welcome to make their own games, and host their own mods.
When it tops the download list the number of people who reject gender ideology is revealed.
Did it actually top the download list?
No?
That's what I thought.
it breaks the illusion of social acceptance the left fights so ferociously to maintain by force and fiat.
Imagine telling on yourself like that 🤣
Interesting that bigots are so insecure in their bigotry that they require it to be externally validated. How pitiful.
The insecurity is on the part of the people trying to modify the language in society by fiat when it doesn't get adopted organically.
Like black people trying to get racists to stop using the N-word, right?
That's actually reverse racist because they won't let me say a word just because I'm white
/S
I can understand that having pronouns or nonbinary or trans characters in games can be a bit of a culture shock. As a culture we're beginning to grow more overall accepting of these people that have been here all along, but never felt comfortable to "be a seen part of society" out of fear. The same sort of thing happened, or is still happening, with homosexuality, though that's further along the acceptance curve than trans/nonbinary.
Eventually it won't be so obviously "woke garbage" that sticks out to you as something noticeable and startling, and it'll be just another feature of the game like anything else, just another NPC like any other, but that one gets called "they" instead of him or her. It takes time for it all to become normalized and not be something you raise eyebrows at and feel upset by. You may always wonder sometimes what gender someone is identifying as when it may not be obvious, but it will become easier to simply ask them, or be okay with not knowing, it's okay to not know.
I'm not going to pretend that mentally working through these things isn't a part of this whole process, but trying to somehow fight back against it by calling it all garbage and refusing to extend the hand to understand where it's all coming from is... inappropriate, we all need to get along, we all live on this planet together and the only way to make it the best it can be is to try and understand each other.
Sure, you may have a point in there about desiring a platform where people can upload any mod they like, and that could totally be a thing, Nexus Mods doesn't want that to be their thing, specifically, and whether you're okay with that or not is your perspective, and I'm okay with that, but you should try and understand why Nexus is taking that stance. Nonbinary and trans people are on the back foot, culturally, so it's clear that many places will take a stand to hard defend their representation because they're so far behind the "biological genders" and could use a helping hand.
we all live on this planet together and the only way to make it the best it can be is to try and understand each other
Understanding and agreement are not synonyms. You can fully understand the views someone holds, and why they hold them, but still come to a different conclusion yourself.
The way you've described the situation treats the idea of progress as some unidirectional, always good force of nature rather than a collective of actions made by people. I don't agree with this. Progress as a concept is neutral, and any given progress can be good or bad, on a scale. As such, people shouldn't just roll over and accept "progress is progress" as an excuse when something they don't support is being normalized.
you should try and understand why Nexus is taking that stance
Once again, understanding and agreement aren't the same. I fully understand why nexus does what it does, but I that doesn't entail support for them doing it. At its core, I think it's utterly fucking stupid for a website built around modding, something fundamentally about individuals playing games how they want, to make a bunch of rules about how people should play games if they want to be on the site.
I didn't say that understanding and agreement are the same. What I wanted was for that user to understand where the other side was coming from, and acknowledge that, and if they still had a different opinion, then okay, but I just wanted to try and explain the side I'm on in a less directly hostile way than the other commenters are.
You make some logical points, I won't go into my opinion since it already seems clear, hope you have a nice night, genuinely, people should be able to discuss this stuff maturely.
Bigroty is not a political opinion. It's just hate.
Bigotry is a political opinion, but the idea that all political opinions deserve identical respect is really dumb.
Some people's ideas are bad, actually. It is fine and good to tell them where to shove it.
The kneejerk demand for "civility" confuses polite responses for appropriate responses. Some people are monsters. Some people need to hear, "fuck off." That is the correct attitude for a worrying number of online interactions, and if moderators won't step up and proactively remove the bigoted propagandist time-vampires who deserve it, the least they can do is stay out of the way. 'What you chose to say is fucking awful' cannot possibly be more of a personal attack than being told 'everyone like you is inherently broken.'