Man in mental health crisis shot police dog that was biting him, so eight Utah cops firing 51 shots to kill him were 'justified'
Man in mental health crisis shot police dog that was biting him, so eight Utah cops firing 51 shots to kill him were 'justified'
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Let's pretend the shooting was valid. You are allowed to use reasonable force to stop a threat. That doesn't mean death, death may happen but the force has to stop once the aggressor is no longer a threat.
Does anyone think 51 shots are reasonable?
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Public execution happens anytime a cop gets shot
Egh. If, in theory, I'm firing and I think there is a danger there 6 bullets ain't really excessive. I'm not saying these idiots were justified but there were eight cops.
If it was a valid shooting, then the number of shots is irrelevant.
8 officers and 51 shots is ~6 rounds per officer. That's not completely insane if you take into account how quickly someone can fire 6 rounds and addrenalin/the situation.
That's literally 2-3 seconds.
I'm not defending the cops one way or the other, but again, if we are stipulating that it's a "good shoot", then number of shots doesn't matter but even if it did, 51 rounds from 8 officers might be in the realm of reasonable (obviously depends on how you define reasonable).
Sorry it is relevant.
The academy stresses you are only authorized to use deadly force to stop a threat. You are not authorized under law to kill anyone.
It’s why we were trained to figure two rounds then evaluate if there was still a threat.
We were never trained to figure six rounds in a panic because that isn’t stopping a threat. Thats trying to kill someone.
In court cases you’ll see them evaluate each shot for that reason. I’m all for giving cops reasonable doubt but 51 shots is insane.
16 I could see. 51 is just stupid.
What academy is teaching you to shoot two rounds then reassess??
You shoot to eliminate the threat. You don't shoot to kill, you don't shoot to wound, you don't aim for the leg, you don't take an arbitrary number of shots then pause.
I went to evergreen. Where did you go?
Two shots, then reassess — that makes sense to me.
Come the adrenaline and it's just squeeze the trigger til nothing happens any more.
What doesn't make sense to me is shooting this guy. Maybe it'll make sense if/when we're allowed to see what happened. That happens, sometimes.
Not often, but sometimes.
When you just magically drop. You lose aim and might start shooting bystanders. Also you’re wasting ammo.
In my academy, it was heavily stressed two rounds, evaluate, two rounds.
People have the impression can’t are allowed to kill. It’s semantics but they’re not. It’s enough force to stop the threat.
Now if the guy had a machine gun and was shootings hundreds of rounds. You can justify 51 shots.
I’m tired of cops shootings 50+ rounds as that is just murder In my eyes.
The only time we were taught to “kill” was active shooter drills. That’s it. The only time the word kill was used was during active shooter drills.
Devil's advocate. Would one headshot be more justified than 51 random hurried shots? What amount of random hurried shots would have been justified in this situation? At what point during the shootings do you determine the suspect is no longer a threat?
These are all questions you're expecting cops to have a rational, logical answer to during a very intense, illogical situation that happens in mere seconds. You can armchair analyze these situations and come out with a better conclusion than the one that happened every time, but you have the comfort of not being a part of that situation.
It's not a split second decision when they already plan on killing the person.
How long does it take to fire those many shots? It wouldn’t be “mere seconds”, would it?
8 cops all shooting at once would only need to fire 7 times and that even has a few misses. That could actually be done insanely quickly.
With that said, I don't think we need to play "devil's advocate" to justify this situation at all and I think it's highly inappropriate. Either the cops are highly trained professionals or they're scared idiots. If the police with all their 'training' can react like scared idiots then at least the same level of leeway should be given to the people they constantly assault.
You could get 6 shots off easy in a few seconds.