US economy going strong under Biden – Americans don’t believe it
US economy going strong under Biden – Americans don’t believe it
Despite a strong economy, an exclusive Guardian poll shows mistrust in media and government means disbelief in both parties
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I'll believe the economics are better when I'm not paying markedly more for everything in my life and my salary increases.
The politicians are so wildly out of touch with the citizens.
This idea that the data is "mistrusted" or "unseen" is ridiculous to the point of incredulity. I don't care what the data says, I know what my lived experiences are and everything is getting wildly more expensive except my labor, it seems. Show me any study you want, it won't change that groceries are 30%+ more expensive, my rent keeps going up, restaurants and bars have gotten nearly 50% or more pricier and my wage hasn't grown to match.
I’ll admit I’m a high income earner. I’ve never had to watch watch what I spend but recently even I’ve noticed increases in everything.
Groceries have doubled from what I paid in 2019. I buy almost the same thing every week and I compared.
Dining out has become much more expensive. Places I used to consider a good value are now expensive.
I ordered a basic meal the other day at a local place. A cheeseburger. Fries. Drink and my friend had a salad. It was almost 59 dollars. Six months ago it was around 30 dollars.
So now I have to watch my spending as everything has increased
Dining out is CRAZY now.
My wife and I were out and about last weekend and needed to eat so we hit a Burger King.
Meals for 2, nothing crazy, was $30... at freaking BURGER KING. We don't even have a sales tax here.
$21 was the bill for 4 people to eat fast food for lunch in my part of the USA today.
Y'all are paying too much for fast food, it's not worth that.
Where y’at?
Bumfuck Ohio
Workers wanted an increase in pay, so shareholders needed to offset that by even more. Workers can't get a raise without shareholders getting a raise.
Inflation is majority driven by profit, not wages. Dems barely attack that angle. Republicans actively work against it.
Shareholders don’t need to offset shit. They’re just greedy rent seeking bastards.
Sorry, didn't mean to word it as support. Just wording it as the reality of what they think.
Shareholders provide economic value (it's literally in the name) and are not rent-seeking by definition
Pray tell. How?
Shareholders are key investors and are the principal drivers of M&A and infrastructure investment.
Disagreeing with the idea that companies exist to drive shareholder returns does not change the actual purpose of shareholders, nor suddenly cause them to be rent-seekers.
How did they get that capital to invest I wonder? The simple answer is that they obtained it through a chain of underpayment of workers for the true value they produce, thus creating a profit. Investors are simply people with wealth who put some of that wealth at risk in the hopes of increasing that wealth by exploiting workers.
The only inherent value an investor has is taking risks, but the risks they take are rarely material risks. Most of these investors have diverse portfolios and are unlikely to see their quality of life affected in any meaningful way if they are in any way financially responsible.
Yeah sorry man I have first hand experience in senior leadership, and your weird commie take isn't gonna hold water with me.
This only reinforces my view that the vast majority of people are empathetic and consider themselves moral individuals who do the right thing. Of course senior leadership wouldn't engage with or think much about a valid perspective that threatens their view of themselves as moral people. Even if they were forced to read Capital, it would most likely cause most of them to double down on their beliefs. They don't hold those beliefs for ethical reasons. They aren't willing to seriously question their beliefs.
When it comes to my opinion being some, "weird commie take," you clearly show your hand. It doesn't matter how sound my argument is or how many holes you have in your own worldview. You lived inside and experience what life is actually like for executives, therefore you clearly have a better understanding than some nobody like me. The problem is that it's exactly my position as someone who has never been an executive that makes my view clearer. I don't have my moral self view tied up in that world being justifiable. Your experience makes you more likely blind spots that miss the inherent horror of capitalism.
You don't have to be a communist to read Marx. Many economists read Marx, even in schools that promote neoliberalism. Sociologists and political scientists study Mein Kampf, biologists are well acquainted with creationism, and physicists learn about outdated theories of gravity. Considering it to be a moral failing to think critically about Marx's ideas is some Matt Gaetz level shit.
You brought an economics argument to a rage thread. OP isn't making a technical claim when they say "rent seeking behavior", they're angry and using it as a synonym for "greedy people".
Some jackass buying a bunch of shares that were already issued and then flipping them for a profit isn't doing shit other than enriching themselves. You might as well argue that scalpers are important. Oh wait, I have seen that brain-dead argument with "pRoViDeS LiQuIdItY!!1"
It does, a little bit. Stock offerings or buybacks are dependent on the market price.
Ah yes, the people are angry about things they have every reason to be angry about. Thank goodness someone used a shallow pseudointellectual argument that glosses over basic truths!
People are angry about things they don't understand.
Case in point, the poster above you:
Some jackass buying a bunch of shares that were already issued and then flipping them for a profit
Thats... not a shareholder.
Yeah except the workers never get the increase in pay you tool. Both Dems and Republicans in office actively help this happening, progressive Dems are the ones that give a damn
That burger was probably 2 dollars of ingredients before profit
$2 ingredients, $55 labor, $2 profit most likely
Restaurants have among the lowest profit margins of any industry.
I know by definition "restaurant" can be a fast-food place, but genuine restaurants are what you meant. Fast-food joints do not operate this way.
Even BKs margins of 18% do not account for a $28 markup, as was suggested above.
You are correct that I was misattributing casual dining margins tho. That was a neat rabbit hole I went down.
I'm just below the median income for my area. Before the pandemic, I was comfortable. I largely didn't have to worry about expenses, I could dine out a few times a month, cook meat more than once a week, buy a few hobby luxuries every few months. Could air travel for vacation once a year.
I drive a newish economy sedan, live in a decent area with one roommate, didn't have all that much but the 401(k) looked good and I had all I wanted.
Now things are tight. Just the other week, went to a bar that sold a damn good burger for $9 with fries. Could have a beer with it and get out under $20. The damn hamburger is $18 now and the beer doubled in price. I try to buy meat twice a month to eat, but my diet is far more bean and lentil based now. Eggs, while doubly more, are still cheap enough to be a frequent protein. My vacations are all at home now. I've taken to enjoying fishing, which is admittedly great, but I used to fly to Europe or other parts of the US once a year.
I do not know how folks on minimum wage get by here. Without forming a support network of other minimum wage workers to pool for rent and groceries, it has to be an insane struggle.
If this is the "improving economy", I don't want any of it.
I eat out often for work and my company picks up the tab. Part of why I didn’t notice for awhile.
I went to buy eggs and they were like 12 dollars. I could have swore eggs were a lot cheaper in the past.
I eat more hamburgers than I should and that’s where I’ve started to notice the crazy pricing. Like you said you could get a burger and beer for under 20. I use to pay 20 with tip and the tip was over 20%.
I can’t do that anymore.
I went to buy eggs and they were like 12 dollars. I could have swore eggs were a lot cheaper in the past.
Man some things have really hit the "I mean, it's one banana, Michael. What could it cost? $10?" levels of ridiculousness price wise.
Since I buy almost the same thing. I don’t pay attention to the cost per item. I just watch the total at the end.
My groceries went from about 80 a week to about 150-180 a week.
I have no clue how the average family is handling this. It’s become so insane even I’ve noticed.
I’m a republican but we need to seriously raise the minimum wage. There is no way anyone can survive on it.
It’s almost 14 here and you can’t survive on that.
I’m a republican but we need to seriously raise the minimum wage.
Uh, you might wanna consider if being a Republican is more important to you than not living in a country full of homeless starving people is before you cast your next vote.
Most of your fellow Republicans believe deep down in the abolishment of the minimum wage, and are adamantly against ever raising it again.
That’s more of a myth. You do not see that in the party platform. Historically they’re been concerned about the inflation risk with raising minimum wage.
Inflation is so bad now, someone needs to do something. Neither party is addressing the issue.
Every single Senate Republican voted against raising the minimum wage to $15, all but 3 House Republicans did the same. It wasn't really a surprise political result to anyone, nor will it be surprising when they all vote against it again.
Historically they’re been concerned about the inflation risk with raising minimum wage.
So inflation is bad already. They blame rising wages for inflation, and you think they're going to raise the minimum wage? Why? Is there something in the party platform about raising the minimum wage?
I highly doubt there is, and I highly doubt that if they got more power that that's what they'd do.
https://www.hawley.senate.gov/senator-hawley-announces-blue-collar-bonus-pay-raise-american-workers
Guess you don’t actually read what republicans are trying to get done. You just want to say republicans bad.
I’m not a fan of Hawley for other reasons but he’s been pushing a lot of good ideas when it comes to the middle class.
Yeah and how far did that get? I see it was "announced" in 2021. He pass it? He even really do anything besides a press conference?
I'll expect it to pass at exactly the same time as Trump's replacement for Obamacare. 😉
I pay attention to what Republicans are "trying to get done". That's the problem is that I pay attention to it. They always find a way to speak big on things for working people and then get in office and pass tax cuts for their millionaire donors.
Me and a partner got fish and chips at a bar yesterday, one app, no drinks, cost us fucking $80. Good fish and chips but like not that good... When I first moved here I was making enough to eat out basically every day and not notice it. I've gotten two raises since then but everything is going up in cost so much if I go out twice a week I'm straining my bank account. I'm used to being poor this job was a complete game changer for me but I'm already noticing I'm starting to pick up habits again from when I was making like 1/3 as much as I do now.
Visiting Europe and prices are so freaking cheap for everything it feels like I’m in a different decade.
Someone was telling me they bought 3 carrots for SIX FUCKING PENCE in the UK when they visited a few months ago.
America is so fucked, I don't care what the office of the president says
I spent $500 at Costco last weekend this shit is out of control.
That’s why I avoid Costco. I always spend to much there.
What country? Cause those prices seem ridiculously high for the US, unless those are fine dining prices these days
United States Oregon and Illinois.
And no, not fine dining by any means.
From their username, looks like Oregon in the US.
The economy is doing better precisely because regular people’s lives are harder. A “strong” economy means more and more off the backs of everyday laborers. Not to mention intentional raising of unemployment rates to combat inflation. The system is fucked. There’s nothing in it for me and you.
Exactly this. Companies do better when they can exploit their workers for as much value as possible. That’s what a “good economy” looks like and it is the duty of every living human to hurt it.
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Food service workers haven't gotten raises in decades. I finally quit when I threw my back out, but when I started in 96, I was making $20,000 a year as a line cook, and later $30,000 as a chef. When I went into management I got a whopping $36,000 as a GM. Meanwhile the prices on the menus have more than doubled. Dollar menus are non existent. It's bullshit. I make more money working for myself a few hours a week growing flower and building computers than I ever would in food service.
This idea that the data is "mistrusted" or "unseen" is ridiculous to the point of incredulity
Yeah, I see the data every Sunday I go to the grocery store and it sure as fuck isn't making things better.
I can see all my grocery store receipts in my app up to two years ago.
Many things have gotten a lot more expensive, but some things haven't. I would put it at 20%, not 30+%.
Also, my mortgage didn't go up. Renters are getting screwed, that's for sure.
Finally, my wage definitely went up. Although many people did not have had their wages go up and they are getting screwed too
So I'm doing much better than two years ago.
The economy isn't bad for everyone.
But for many people, it's definitely bad.
To say that the numbers are wrong is a stretch though. The numbers just reflect averages.
I too have largely been doing better since the pandemic than before it. But I also bought a condo during the extremely brief price dip in early 2020.
I think a lot of it is living costs. If you were able to lock in a mortgage with low interest rates, and don't have to rent or look for a place to live right now, then you're probably doing a lot better than others and then the President's analysis may make actual sense.
On the other hand, I've gotten a couple raises but it hasn't felt like it. They've basically equaled out to inflation.
Same here, still doing fine in my low cost of living area. Not all of the USA is as bad as some of these reports.
This is called “propaganda” say it with me “prop-a-Ganda”
This idea that the data is “mistrusted” or “unseen” is ridiculous to the point of incredulity. I don’t care what the data says
That's...proving them correct, the data IS mistrusted
This idea that the data is “mistrusted” or “unseen” is ridiculous to the point of incredulity. I don’t care what the data says
Cannot believe you wrote this without a trace of irony.
Buddy they can say the economy is better until the cows come home, it doesn't change that for a huge swath of people, it fucking ain't, it's far worse.
You could say it's not trickling down. It's more like an inverted pyramid scheme.
Individual impacts are always felt last. In 08, the average person didn't experience the crisis until it had been underway for about half a year or more.
I am not arguing that every person is literally better off this moment but rather that economic messaging as a whole is not resonating with people.
Wages are going up. Hiring is through the roof. Things are turned around. Fundamentals are all rock solid, and even the Fed is saying that they will be easing off as they have essentially already achieved the "soft landing" with inflation.
The person I replied to is committing the same logical "sin" that the article bemoans.
It's almost as if when the average person talks about the economy, they're talking about metrics and dynamics that affect them, and when politicians talk about economics, they talk about a set of metrics and dynamics that the average person couldn't give a flying fuck about, which may or may not affect them eventually. The degree to which those two sets are related is constantly in dispute, but trying to confuse the economy for the 1% as the economy for everyone else is kind of a fundamental deception that people are getting tired of. There's no guarantee or even strong reason to believe any of our schools of thought of macroeconomics have ever been right. We're making it up as we go along, and often times for the benefit of the upper class, not everyone else.