I am shocked, I say. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.
I am shocked, I say. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.
273 comments
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That’s funny, because I’ve had numerous ‘leftist’ posters tell me that the Dems lost because of progressives abstaining due to one pet issue or another.
Maybe they lost because they actively avoided addressing any issues.
The only war that I’ve been in support of since I’ve been on Lemmy has been the war in Ukraine against Russian imperialism and genocide.
The only war you've concerned yourself with is a war that has the biggest geopolitical implications. In a certain light, this looks a little like you're only really concerned with wars that have the biggest implications for western geopolitical soft power (which is absolutely true about Ukraine). If it were on the merits of 'opposing imperialist ambitions and genocide' as the anti-tankie label suggests, I would think the genocide in gaza would at least rank, since Isreal's imperial ambitions and actions in Gaza and the middle east are far more recent, bloody, and asymmetrical than the war in Ukraine.
As an anarchist living in America, I have a whole lot of questions for anyone who strongly cares about the Russian invasion of Ukraine but doesn't seem to give two shits about the imperial ambitions of a western ally in the ME. Maybe 'warhawk' isn't quite the right term, but 'leftist' is for sure not the right one.
You present far more like a career security advisor working out of the pentagon, but I'm not conspiratorial enough to seriously think that - tho it is interesting to think about.
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Maybe they lost because they actively avoided addressing any issues.
There are many reasons why the Dems lost. Every one of them bears some blame, and most - though not all - of them are on the party leadership.
Unfortunately, the data provided by leftists on Lemmy has been very convincing in putting forward that even a single one - namely, leftists abstaining from voting Dem over their personal issue of choice - could have saved us from fascism. Instead, those selfsame leftists chose to embrace as much genocide as possible, killing literal millions, even just at current projections.
The only war you’ve concerned yourself with is a war that has the biggest geopolitical implications.
The only war I've supported, not the only one I've concerned myself with.
I would think the genocide in gaza would at least rank, since Isreal’s imperial ambitions and actions in Gaza and the middle east are far more recent, bloody, and asymmetrical than the war in Ukraine.
I've expressed deep opposition to Israel's ongoing genocide in Gaza, as well as their invasions of neighboring states.
I've openly stated opposition to all Israeli aid. I've denounced the idea that we should be allies at all with Israel, due to their horrific conduct.
As an anarchist living in American, I have a whole lot of questions for anyone who strongly cares about the Russian invasion of Ukraine but doesn’t seem to give two shits about the imperial ambitions of a western ally in the ME.
And you would be right to. Unfortunately for your argument here, that has nothing to do with me.
You present far more like a career security advisor working out of the pentagon, but I’m not conspiratorial enough to seriously think that - tho it is interesting to think about.
Lord.
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Unfortunately, the data provided by leftists on Lemmy has been very convincing in putting forward that even a single one - namely, leftists abstaining from voting Dem over their personal issue of choice - could have saved us from fascism.
I would much rather have this conversation, because I find it endlessly interesting. The one thing i'm sure about is it doesn't help in the slightest to focus blame on voters or casting aspersions at people criticizing democrats. Especially when those people aren't creating the tension - it's present regardless if democrats suppress discussing it.
No matter how you slice it, though - the sentiment that's consistent across the board is that democrats/democracy are incapable/uninterested of fixing the problems we're feeling, regardless of what we think they are. Class conciousness/material analysis is so piss-poor here that almost everyone has their own idea of the most important issue, but every one of them results in the same populism we're seeing on left and right of center. People just don't believe our problems can be fixed through democratic means, and on the left it manifests as apathy/despair, and on the right it manifests as fascism.
I personally think oligarchy is a fantastic massaging vehicle, not only because it's correctly identifying the issue of capital (this is the defining feature of leftism, btw), it's actually addressing the visceral reaction to the many different failures everyone can actually feel. Even the war in Gaza and Ukraine can be tied back to oligarchy and capital. But for sure what doesn't work is 'alpha energy', 'losing our woke reputation', and 'slow, responsible progress' narratives from people like Slotkin and Jefferies. "Everyone is too radical" and "don't rock the fucking boat" messaging will do fuck-all, too.
The only war I’ve supported, not the only one I’ve concerned myself with.
I’ve expressed deep opposition to Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza, as well as their invasions of neighboring states.
'Concern' was my attribution to you, I know you don't personally consider yourself unconcerned with the other conflicts. Maybe it's because you spent the first half of 2024 leveling these 'bothsides' accusations against anyone bringing up Gaza but were unbothered by people drumming up energy around the war in Ukraine. I'm also pretty sure i've seen you in the comments complaining about Houthi rebels and Hamas liberation groups resisting against western imperialism, which to me is a red flag for someone claiming to be anti-imperialism and anti-tankie. If you say the other conflicts concern you I guess I just don't buy it, based on what you spend your time talking about. It might just be that I'm reading the democratic priority messaging through your activity and it has nothing to do with your personal tastes for armed conflict. Who knows, but as someone who thinks the US is particularly guilty for war and famine across the globe, even simply 'supporting' the war in Ukraine is gross to me.
Lord
Yea, that's my sentiment too.
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I’m also pretty sure i’ve seen you in the comments complaining about Houthi rebels and Hamas liberation groups resisting against western imperialism, which to me is a red flag for someone claiming to be anti-imperialism and anti-tankie.
Who knows, but as someone who thinks the US is particularly guilty for war and famine across the globe, even simply ‘supporting’ the war in Ukraine is gross to me.
Of fucking course. Infinite tolerance for 'flawed' allies until that 'flawed' ally is in any way linked to the dreaded shitlibs. At that point, genocide and imperialism become a matter of 'bothsides'.
Love that you've spent the past half-dozen comments talking about how criticism must be allowed for, even when criticizing groups in the midst of fighting fascism, and now you're saying being critical of Islamists is a 'red flag' for being "anti-imperialism and anti-tankie"
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Infinite tolerance for ‘flawed’ allies until that ‘flawed’ ally is in any way linked to the dreaded shitlibs. At that point, genocide and imperialism become a matter of ‘bothsides’.
This is what no-theory does to a motherfucker. There are no 'good guys' in the Ukrainian war except the people of Ukraine themselves, only giant and bloated imperial states fighting over imaginary territorial lines with the unwilling sacrifice of working class blood. Tankies might object to that war because they prefer Russia to the west, but I oppose that war because the working class is forced to battle over geopolitical supremacy, and in the end will live as indentured servants to the west. The working class have everything to lose and the least to gain from that war. I have zero problem condemning that whole conflict.
No war but class war, bootlicker.
even when criticizing groups in the midst of fighting fascism, and now you’re saying being critical of Islamists is a ‘red flag’ for being “anti-imperialism and anti-tankie”
If i could give out three nobel peace prizes, the first would be to the south african delegation, the second to the doctors in gaza, and the third to the houthis. We might disagree on a lot, but i'll join hands with anyone to fight for the right to self-determination of any people against any genocide.
I don't cherry pick which fascist states get to conduct imperialist genocides and which don't - if the democrats think themselves above criticism for contributing to genocide abroad then they are my enemy, too.
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This is what no-theory does to a motherfucker. There are no ‘good guys’ in the Ukrainian war except the people of Ukraine themselves, only giant and bloated imperial states fighting over imaginary territorial lines with the unwilling sacrifice of working class blood. Tankies might object to that war because they prefer Russia to the west, but I oppose that war because the working class is forced to battle over geopolitical supremacy, and in the end will live as indentured servants to the west. The working class have everything to lose and the least to gain from that war. I have zero problem condemning that whole conflict.
No war but class war, bootlicker.
Love that you're pro-genocide for Ukraine, but anti-genocide in Palestine. I guess Hamas is just more well-read on theory and more deserving of your support.
If i could give out three nobel peace prizes, the first would be to the south african delegation, the second to the doctors in gaza, and the third to the houthis. We might disagree on a lot, but i’ll join hands with anyone to fight for the right to self-determination of any people against any genocide.
Except Ukraine, it would seem.
I wish this was at all surprising, but you're the perfect caricature of the kind of 'leftist' I was talking about. You just needed a little time to drop the mask, it would seem.
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Except Ukraine, it would seem
Russia can get fucked, but they aren't a ethno-nationalist settler-colonial project predicated on anti-arab racism dead-set on purging Palestine completely. Only a coward would hide behind Russia in order to avoid condemning the utter depravity of the US and Israel.
FUCK Russia, but FUCK the west too. No states, no masters.
At least you're not larping as a leftist anymore.
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Only a coward would hide behind Russia in order to avoid condemning the utter depravity of the US and Israel.
Literally did condemn Israel's genocide and the US for supporting it, but I guess that's not important when you have Ukrainian genocide to ignore.
At least you’re not larping as a leftist anymore.
"Opposing genocide in Ukraine means you aren't a leftist"
Yikes.
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“Opposing genocide in Ukraine means you aren’t a leftist”
Lmao, you can oppose a genocide without advocating for US involvement, genius
Ya know, the thing I'm taking away from this entire disagreement is that the one common party in both conflicts is the US.
This is a huge leap of logic, but maybe WE are the problem.
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Lmao, you can oppose a genocide without advocating for US involvement, genius
Ah, the "Might makes right" interpretation of world politics, "If they can't survive without outside help against a much larger enemy, let them die; anything is better than the dreaded Shitlibs(tm) doing something terrible like offering aid"
I'm sure you would've been an opponent of lend-lease in WW2 as well.
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I see no problems with comparing Russia to Nazi Germany.
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273 comments