I am shocked, I say. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.

I run into this on dating apps. “Centrist” and “apolitical” are both code for “conservative.”
- I've heard that many men do this because they've realized, in some capacity, that outright admitting they're right-wing limits their opportunities. In my circles, I've noticed this "I'm actually a centrist/apolitical" trend is also found among popular developers and tech influencers.
  Saying you're anti-woke gets you shunned and surrounded by horrible people, but saying you're just apolitical gets you the blessing and protection of self-proclaimed centrists. When you, for example, marginalize LGBT folks and get called out, countless will gather to complain about people "dragging politics into tech." Bryan Lunduke will come out of his cave and write a piece about how the trans fetish is trying to kill open source.
  
  I’m talking about women, but I e heard the same things you have about men.
- "I believe women have the right. The right to be a trad wife."
- Right probably think apoliticals are secret leftist too no?
  
  I don’t know many leftists who keep that secret. “Apolitical” is typically indicative that someone is more or less fine with the status quo, which is an inherently conservative position.

An older acronym for the same thing, BSABSVR
Both Sides Are Bad So Vote Republican.
- Both Sides Are Bad So Vote Republican.
  God, growing up, I heard the equivalent of that so often from the less-lead-poisoned of my conservative community.
  "Well, you don't really know what's true, and both sides lie. Really, both parties are just out for themselves. There's no difference between them."
  "So you aren't voting?"
  "Oh no, I'm definitely voting Republican."
- Oh yeah, "The Smaller Of Two Evils" - they said in 2016. A few years later I asked: "how did that work out for you?" - embarrassed silence. One of the best I-told-you-so-moments I ever had.
  
  It will work in 2028, trust me, just keep rich Neoliberals in power please god please.
- That may be the worst acronym I've ever seen.
  
  The late 90's to early 2000s were a terrible time on the internet in many ways and yet in may others it was the best of times.
- I prefer BEATSABERVR

- Representative democracy is a lie, but if they let you vote you can still use that vote to help choose your adversary. Better a genocidal 'centrist' than a genocidal fascist, at least until the left is strong enough that they could take the right in a fight credibly enough for the 'centrists' to pick the left.
  
  Wise take. We live in this world, we have to make the better choice, even if it's still a bad one. Maybe later you can move from genocidal 'centrist' to a non genocidal one, but this is a full on accelerated descent into amorality, hatred and love of ignorance for the US.
- Yeah but you hate democracy if you say that!

"Both sides bad, bit aT leAsT tRuMp iS hOnEst aBoUt iT!"
The Honesty:
"You won't have to vote anymore"
"Dictator on day one"
- no one said that
  or maybe centrists in the USA be like

I have never met a "centrist" on social media who wasn't. Same with the horseshoe theory.
Let's take America: are you for democracy or against it? - "I can see both sides" - wtf? Fascist enabler, at best.
- I prefer stethoscope theory.
  
  They did a U-turn!
  
  This stethoscope diagram just reeks of a rebranding attempt similar to how Libertarians were adamant that they were not just Republicans yet somehow still only voted Republican and would support Republicans in all things even if it explicitly went against libertarian doctrine.
  Horseshoe theory is more accurate. Hard left is tankies. Tankies are hard left.
- Proponents of horseshoe theory argue that the far-left and the far-right are closer to each other than either is to the political center. Seems like a theory a right-winger would create to save face.
  
  I will say, some far leftists have ideas that seem more libertarian on a surface level, like dismantling the state, but it's for different reasons, and generally far-lefts aren't common. What Americans consider "far left" is just advocating for common decency
  
  Thr horshoe no longer exists today in any meaningful way, but it did for a brief moment pre tea party. There used to be a group of people that believed in both universal health care and understood risk pools, and would not directly vote to restrict personal rights. Pretty small group now.

Another one I noticed is they say shit like "well they're saying two opposite things, so you cannot know the truth". Mother fucker, if you dig a tiny bit the truth is out there, waiting for you, but they cannot accept one side is lying (it's theirs)

Even if they're not a right-winger and don't claim to be a centrist, "both-sides"ing things is a waste of time, at best.
Like, when Jon Stewart came back to the Daily Show. I think it was his first show back, but it might have been his second... And his main talking point was about how both Biden and Trump were old. I know he's just a comedian on a comedy show, but it still felt like a betrayal. At the very best, it was a waste of a chance to say something that could have actually made a difference.
- He pointed out that they are the oldest candidates ever to run, beating the previous record of…the same two old white guys 4 years prior. Seemed pretty germane to mention that we have a serious lack of younger and diverse representation
  
  I agree 100% with everything you said. Just like you said, it was a good point and definitely worth a mention. My problem is that it was the main segment of his first show back. Just like I said, a waste of time when there were much more important things to talk about.
- I mean, they are both old, I don't think that's a perspective that should be discounted. That's not a discussion on policy or who one should vote for as much as it is the understandable concern about whether either of them would still be alive for their entire second term.
- I like Jon, but TDS has done more harm than good for the left.
  It just normalized the Republican CRIMINAL behaviour by making fun of it and laughing, like it was no big deal
  It made an entire generation complacent becuase people though watching TDS and jucking along was actually doing fuck all to actually fight Republicans or help Democrats.
  And finally, like you said they'd frequently have both sides segments that the right loved to echo on their propaganda networks
- Tbf, you shouldn't take news from a comedian.
  They are meant to entertain, not inform. If they side with one party too much, they lose viewers.
  They need views from "both sides" which is the precise reason why they have to "both sides" everything.
  
  Comedians and court jesters have always been some of the most honest and straight forward. They don't bite their tongue or fret over access. You shouldn't discount them. Entertainment is one of the best methods of informing. You will spend infinitely time more learning in an entertaining way. Then beating your head against a dry impenetrable text that you struggle to comprehend.
  
  The comedian in question is Jon Stewart, though. Do you really think that Jon Stewart has to "both sides" everything so that he doesn't alienate his conservative audience? I doubt that you're saying that. I don't think he has ever done that.
  It doesn't make sense to try to generalize how comedians act when we're talking about how one specific comedian acts, and it's already clear that he doesn't act like the generalization presented.
  I have no doubt that Jon Stewart simply did the segment because he thought it was funny, and he didn't care about alienating people.
  The reason I'm so sure is that he predictably alienated a lot of left leaning people with his "both sides are old" segment. I say "predictably" because there's simply no way that somebody didn't talk to him before air and say something like, "You know, this is going to irritate the people who like you the most."

Funny how there's a bunch of people in the comments essentially just unironically repeating the meme: "Well this must be wrong because I believe this and I'm actually a centrist!!!"
That's the point, buddy. You're the butt of the joke. The idea that the far-left and far-right are equally bad or warrant the same amount of scrutiny and criticism is a right-wing belief.
To make the point more obvious instead of using "left" and "right" look at specific political beliefs that the far-left and far-right have:
Equality across social and demographic groups vs. State-enforced racism, sexism and other kinds of bigotry
Abolishment of bourgeois property and money vs. Complete privatization, oligarchy and corruption
Globalization, peaceful relations and a right to live where you want vs. Complete isolationism and xenophobia
Right to self-governance and no government with a monopoly on violence vs. State sanctioned violence against those considered undesirable or traitors
Hopefully I don't need to explain which one is obviously worse. To equate what the far-left and the far-right advocate for one must misrepresent the left, so both-sides-ism inherently has a right-wing slant.
- the left general public: let's alienate the people that might agree with us, but be shocked when the right wins.
- Left : "Stop bombing civilians"
  Centrists : "Let's meet in the middle and bomb only some of the civilians."
- I like to come into these comments because it gives me a fresh batch of new "centralists" to tag.
- What does right wing mean to you?
  
  What does right wing mean to YOU?
  
  Anyone who thinks any different than they do.
- They are both bad in their own ways just one is the lesser of two evils.
  But to me both sides suck
  
  Don't let the downvotes change your mind. Lemmy is clearly leftist and you must not be brainwashed into changing your political beliefs to follow the mass. Keep your critical thinking!
  
  In what world is, "Equality across social and demographic groups" seen as evil?

There's also:
"Leftist" insisting on "both sides".
-mask pull-
Russian bot
- Russian bot
  So a right-wing fascist supporter.
  
  Yup but they are not self-aware enough to realize that hard leftism is actually right-wing

On the other hand, the kneejerk of labeling every even remotely centrist viewpoint as inherently dishonest is pretty annoying. My own views lean SocDem and I've found voicing any opinion which is neither solidly left-wing or solidly right-wing, especially if it does not align with very American-centric views of the political spectrum, often elicits unpleasant reactions. Nuance is hard, I guess.
- As an anarchist. The seething hate I've received for pointing out. That the genocide in Palestine is truly an appropriate both sides thing. That it wasn't just Biden or just Harris. That it was our senators, our Congress people, and the executive branch.
  That it was going to be a Republican or a Democrat that won the presidential election. And we all would definitely prefer it wasn't for the Republican. Or that if Fox News covers you without wildly editorializing or smearing you. You done fucked up. You could be forgiven for thinking I had just strangled their grandmother's from the reaction.
- Could you give an example of a centrist viewpoint that you've voiced that would be labeled as inherently dishonest?
  
  Being in favor of mixed economies, with stock markets, venture capital firms, but also universal healthcare and protection for unions. Being against American style basically unregulated firearm ownership (which seems quite popular on both the far left and far right, yet maybe not so much in the middle). And I feel free to criticize the actions of parties or politicians across the political spectrum, not just those on one side. I understand many people, especially the political left which I sympathize more with, are very angry these days. Justifiably. So am I. But being accused of being dishonest just for having a different point of view is annoying.

Nuance is inconvenient to radicals and fundamentalists.
- The US has little nuance. Your dominant parties are Fascist and Far-Right Neoliberals with some token LGBT rights.
  
  I’m not American, luckily.
  
  He's a troll, don't bother.
- The word nuance doesn't belong in a discussion involving genocide.
  Or princess bride meme.

Both sides exclude me for holding my particular set of opinions. I'm on my side, fuck you!
- That's actually fair. Maybe more parties would be better?
- Finally some common sense.
- Yea, make your own opinions, and fuck everyone who criticizes a political category
- What beliefs would exclude you from both sides?? I feel like you're making this up just to seem "different" tbh
  
  In America that's dead easy. Try being pro-choice, an LGBT ally, for personal liberty, anti-corporate, pro-gun, and pro-environmentalism. You can salt and pepper that with whatever other opinions you choose.
  Ain't nobody in power catering to you. The Democrats are all kissing the asses of megacorporations and are anti-gun-ownership, because they're all little tin pot authoritarians just like most professional politicians, and don't want anyone being able to challenge their authority. And they've been demonstrably strongly against personal liberty in general since forever. Meanwhile the Republicans are simply insane, and I don't think I need to delve into detail there considering the rest of the content in this thread.
  So who does that leave anybody with?
  The notion is, hold your nose and vote for the Democrats because they'll screw you over more slowly. And by and large that's what we do, because there is no other viable option.

This is some crazy doublethink shit. It's clear just looking at the inconsistent interpretation from all the top-level comments that 'centrist' is a blanket term that both describes 'centrist' positions and also 'left/right radicals'. The only consistent is whether the subject is subjecting the in-group to criticism
The same user constantly harps on 'far-left' progressives complaining about democratic positions, and calls himself a centrist.
This is just standard 'out-group' gatekeeping. "If you're not with us, you're against us" shit.
- "Bothsides types are indistinguishable both in form and in end-result, regardless of whether they claim to be centrists or leftists"
  "This is crazy doublethink shit!"
  The same user constantly harps on ‘far-left’ progressives complaining about democratic positions, and calls himself a centrist.
  what
  
  Bothsides types are indistinguishable
  ... Yea, see there it is. "Bothsides types are indistinguishable [in the way they criticize my party]"
  
  Wait, are you talking about both sides as in the political parties, or both sides as in far left and ‘centrist’ secret nazi?
  Still sick of this blaming apathetic voters for the clear failure of the Democratic Party. You had mentioned that harm mitigation trumps all moral consideration of choice. That’s short term thinking, one that has gotten us in this mess. If democrats want to play chicken putting ‘their’ progressive voting base against their neoconservative principles, that is a failure on them. Their actions after losing further prove their deficit. I warned you specifically during the election what the outcome would be because of how the democrats acted.

I'd rather have a politician who does absolutely nothing than a fascist.
- Yes, this is how the two-pronged strategy works to ensure the working class never improves its standing.
  
  Fascism only improves the standing of those on top.
- But unfortunately not one that my fellow Americans seem to have appreciated.

As long as you're amoral and self-serving, you can only be a "right winger", whatever that means. It's only when you dispel the myth of moral relativism and believe that, yeah, some things ARE wrong (and we should avoid and condemn them, of course), that you can start becoming a person worth existing and worth listening to. And if you're not very smart nor very brave you might be a "non radical" "leftist" but hey, your heart is probably in the right place so I'm not gonna hate (too much).
- It's only when you dispel the myth of moral relativism and believe that, yeah, some things ARE wrong (and we should avoid and condemn them, of course)
  You can be a moral relativist without equating someone else's view of morality to your own. Or rather, while still only valuing your own.

They’re not political, they just wantt to see common sense policies on immigration (for brown people) and crime (for brown people).
- Which is a shame because immigration can be one of the greatest boons to rural America.
- Here “common sense” means incredibly harsh.

As a centrist, I approve with this message. An actual centrist does not compromise with nazis.
- Do they compromise with the controlled opposition to Nazis?

Oh my God, you found Emmanuel Macron!

- Dang, I wish I could've seen what this comment says instead of having someone else decide for me.

Ah yes, the classical "you're either with us or against us"
This is false.
I feel like most people here are american, which would explain this point of view
- I'll grant you that this is very much an American sentiment currently, but it's not exactly a purely tribal take when the centrist opinion is that sometimes Nazis can have good ideas.
  
  I mean, a broken clock is right twice a day. If hitler was the first to implement a hand washing before and after patient interaction policy, would that be a bad idea? Or would it be a rare good idea from a genocidal maniac?
- No.
  This is just the case on (yes American, make your own sites that would be nice) every intended forum.
  Shit even my in laws say they are centrist, they don’t hold a single view that’s centrist. They vote down ticket republican their whole lives. This is a thing republicans do.
  
  Shit even my in laws say they are centrist, they don’t hold a single view that’s centrist. They vote down ticket republican their whole lives. This is a thing republicans do.
  I voted a mixed ticket until 2016. Then straight blue until 2024, and only one exception in 2024 and she was was a city seat that I knew and could knock on her door and yell at in person if she did something I didn't like.
- Eh it happens here in the UK too, 'centre' always seems to be 'give the right wing half of what they want and the left wing nothing.' which is really just right wing but slower.

Every god damn time
- Dang, lots of censorship going on here.
  When are we going to make communities that take moderation seriously and don't just ban people because they feel like it?

Yes, well.....when you've been indoctrinated by the internet the majority of your adult life, you (totally unironically /s) view anyone that doesn't align exactly with your world view as a Totalitarian.
I would say it's a problem, but at least it keeps you all in a centralized bubble that allows you to believe "we are the majority!!", without actually impacting the real world.
- Said on the internet, by an internet user. Curious.
  I am very smart.

lovely flat comparison that only accepts this precise present moment as the only context.
Never mind that the Democrats today are the George W. Bush neo-cons of twenty years ago. Or that the precedent laid down by the Bush admin - and subsequently renewed and strengthened by the Obama admin - are the same legal standards Trump and ICE are now claiming cover under.

If libs take the stance that you're either fully on my team or you're my enemy then it's going to be a long time until you win some elections and have the ability to make real policy. Democracy is about compromise and appealing to as many voters as possible. Truth is whomever gets the independents wins the elections in the USA, everything else is just noise and excuses.
- This would be all very well and good in principle, except that this assumption has now already been factored into mainstream Republican strategy. It's now an everyday occurrence for them to say something absolutely outrageous based on the expectation that the "compromise" will be struck exactly where they want things to be.

I mean, a lot of them are tankies.

Seems like the left don't approve of common sense.

Lemmy being black or white like always. You can be a leftist, vote for the left and still recognize the flaws in your own parties and the good ideologies in the other…
I swear, the left usually calls itself open-minded, but as soon as someone on the right comes around, instead of trying to convince them with arguments, they are being called straight up evil russian bots. So what do they do, they go back to truth social, where they are well treated, and keep voting conservative.
- Lemmy being black or white like always. You can be a leftist, vote for the left and still recognize the flaws in your own parties and the good ideologies in the other…
  That's very different from asserting that both sides are the same.
  
  Someone: "both parties share this specific commonality"
  PugJesus: "oh rly?? Both sides are LITERALLY the same??"
  Don't you dare suggest that my party has a common flaw with the other party and can be responsible for their own losses, you fascist.
  
  Both sides are similar in behavior, not in ideology. Right winger’s are treated just as bad here as leftists are treated on truth social. Both sides are somehow convinced their idea is the absolute truth and the other side is the devil itself.
- the meme is explicitly not talking about those people
  
  Honestly I’m talking more about the people in the comments than the meme itself.
- Nothing in the meme that directly names political parties.
  Are you someone who calls yourself a centrist but can't decide if kids should be shot in schools or Healthcare is a human right? Weird.
  
  No, I don’t think kids should be shot, and healthcare should be a thing. But here anyway, the current healthcare system is broken, and some of the conservative ideas are trying to fix it, while the left is fine leaving it half working. While I’m still a leftist, I do recognize their point and am not calling them evil for it…
- Mr Jenkins!?

- that's the free speech I want 😂
  no need to be this mean though :(
- Wow, all these banned users!
  It's like there's not even a discussion at this point.
  Fuck these mods and their agendas.

The middleground between racism and not racism is 50% racism. That being said, they probably mean centrist in different topics. Blame two party system not the people.

Social centrism ≠ traditional centrism
- They aren’t that either.

I mean, I understand that this is like a very prevailing thing, but centrists exist. Especially in a modern political climate that is this polarized, being a centrist is unbelievably hard to explain to people. The left is convinced that they are very people first and very centrist and the right is convinced that they are very right and very populist.
I mean basically what I'm saying is that this actually emphasizes a problem and people just blindly agreeing with this is also a problem. I would venture to say that most people can't recognize an actual centrist as opposed to just immediately assuming them to be a right winger. This has happened for over 10 years in my daily life. Before Donald Trump even started running for president, in 2013, I had people accusing me of being either left-wing or right-wing, when in reality, I am very much a centrist. If I use any political buzzwords to identify myself whatsoever, I will then be put into a category that which does not properly define me. I despise the Democrats, I despise the Republicans, and I despise Donald J. Trump. I don't think anyone in the last 10 years in the entirety of this government has been worth even considering for my vote for president.
But who am I? I'm just one guy.
Please don't hate me for saying this. I just, I see this meme and I see the comments and I just think, wow, this must be a bunch of people who have experienced like, you know, those weird people who liked Trump but no longer like Trump. My point is that like people continue to say that there's no such thing as a centrist and I'm not saying that you people are saying that I'm saying that that is a prevailing idea and I'm sick and tired of it and this meme and your comments very much seem to perpetuate that.
Anyway, I'm done. I hate politics because it's terrible. There's nothing and no one to vote for. No cause to get behind that will ever truly fix it just by voting. Get active in your community, physically, and improve things on a city-wide level. And then if a ton of people do that, we'll actually see change. That is if these tariffs don't literally destroy our entire economy. #AmericaisrecessionproofsolongaswethreatentheFederalReserve
- Disliking politics and all the current political parties doesn't fit the technical definition of a centrist.
  It's not that centrism can't exist, it's that it's commonly used as a thin pretense to cover actual partisan leanings, usually right-wing (by the general global metric, not just the US one).
  Additionally, abstinence isn't commonly a good approach by which to assert a legitimately central stance. A lot of the time a legitimately central stance doesn't exist in a practical sense.
  As stated by a commenter above "The middleground between racism and not racism is 50% racism".
  I personally think the concept of "centrism" isn''t viable, not because nuance and context can't exist but because the "center" often isn't a useful target.
  
  Okay, I actually agree with you on a lot of what you have to say.
  Having certain dislikes of politics and to actually dislike facet of both political parties currently and having dislikes of both current political parties in order for them to be close to the center, which is again what a centrist is.
  I completely agree. I think that people using the term centrist as a vague cover for what is usually fairly right wing politics is prevalent and a lot of people have seen this. YouTube personalities and posts on x / posts on blue sky / posts on freaking truth social they all claim to be centrist or they all claim to be a more "common sense voice" when they in fact aren't and this is very prevailing and I've seen this myself.
  My own political journey has been extreme frustration and an understanding that both sides of the political aisle in the United States specifically are so ungodly terrible that I cannot bring myself to actually cast my ballot for anyone. That is a bit of an aside because that is only my own political experience, my own political opinion. I'm not going to cast my ballot for somebody who is actively corrupt or actively making stupid choices. So that is an aside and kind of detracts from my point, to be honest.
  I think likening racism to political centrism, which is, again, what you are agreeing with, is not an apt comparison. You're agreeing with a commenter above that said "the middle ground between racism and not racism is 50% racism" Being a centrist in that agreeing with some stances of the conservatives and agreeing with some stances of the liberals is not the same thing as being 50% racist. Not at all. Being 50% racist could mean that you agreed with the South advocating for slavery as a way to keep the prices of cotton down in the United States but disagreed with slavery because it involves back-breaking labor without any payment to these poor people, you know, the slaves. The comment is honestly another thing that just shows the degradation of the political system in the United States down to two camps and two parties. It's the idea that the entire right is effectively racist until they can prove it, and the entire left is somehow communist, and pedophiles. Then if you happen to be a centrist, if you happen to be in the middle, as I've met many centrists, they exist. And again, it is probably the most viable of all of the political ideologies, if not for corruption and political manipulation to herd the population into either Democrat or Republican sides.
  Me saying that I believe that we should only spend money that much we can actually tax from the population, and that if we continue to spend money to an obscene degree, then we are going to have a very difficult time in the world economic stage. That is true economic conservatism. Many people who claim to be conservatives, many people who claim to be far right, many people who claim to be, you know, a middle ground right, they don't believe in this form of conservatism. And most of them on the right don't practice what they preach.
  So I guess that's one example of a stance that I take. And this idea that the middle ground is somehow, you know, partially siding with Donald Trump is extraordinarily stupid and just leads to people attacking each other for like no reason. Which is ultimately what I think Donald Trump stands for, which is just a bunch of people fighting in a metaphorical street fight. I agree that centrism generally isn't viable because there really isn't a political party that you can vote for and we only have a two-party system which again has fueled corruption in Washington and corruption in the States. I think that centrism only isn't viable iIf you take into account the political corruption, if there was less political corruption in Washington, if third parties were viable, which again is a far shot off from the reality that we currently live in. But still, if third parties were viable, then political centrism would, I think, be in many ways, Where the vast majority of people's political voting would land because I think the vast majority of people are actually just centrists forced to choose a side in a corrupt political system. Thanks for responding to my comment
- In a nutshell, what this meme is about is all the people that we've run into who say, "both sides are bad," because they believe the Republicans lies about Democrats, and the Republican talking points on issues. Actual centrists, in Republican lingo, are "the far left."
  
  I agree with this stance. It's very hard to be a centrist, even though most people are. In today's political climate, everyone has just decided that they must be Democrat and Republican because that benefits the Power elite, the people who are already in power, and those who use this power to try and solidify themselves as staying in power. To the Republicans, the centrists are far left, and the Democrats, the centrists are far right. It's honestly extremely stupid that people are not really capable of seeing, you know, an actual stance, as being an actual stance, and instead just use a bunch of political buzzwords and repeat phrases that you hear all throughout the left and the right. This has led people to throwing metaphorical mud at each other in the streets and hating their neighbors, as opposed to talking it out. Just like in this thread, I mean, everyone's down-voting my comment because they're uneducated about what centrism means, at least that's probably what I think they're doing, and or they believe that they're supporting the Democrats. (maybe they believe in my hate monger?) When in reality, political centrism is where most people's stances lie, and that the political parties are basically saying, hey, choose a side guys, just choose the better poison of the two poisons on the table. Politics is terrible, as I said before.

What if I'm a centrist insisting both sides are garbage?
- You're literally who the meme is about.
  
  Oh it goes both ways then, cool. I'm okay with that.
- Then you'll be down-voted because people are stupid and don't want to have an actual conversation about things. However, apparently trying to ask to have an actual conversation about things is now a Republican strategy, which is again exactly what the liberals are complaining about, and both of these idiotic stances (down-voting people when they're just trying to talk and then refusing to talk about things and on the other side, making talking about things a sorda political issue) is terrible. The Liberals shall come and droves and downvote you. Except that comment that I just said is now going to be interpreted as a Republican leaning stance. Common sense has been completely abandoned by both sides, not in its totality, but just enough so that there is a kind of metaphorical street fight and that there is mud slinging and that the general population has no idea how to actually solve any of these real-world problems that we are facing. Donald Trump is probably not going to be ejected from office as I think he should be. And, frankly speaking, I don't think that the Democrats have any reasonable candidate to run in the next election. On top of this, most of the Democrats are going to roll over an allow project 2025 to take hold because the Democrats don't really care. I mean, truly, you get them down into a room and I'm betting you that they don't really care. And the Republicans, they've all rolled over to Donald Trump's stances and now all we have is a bunch of far-right yahoos and a bunch of leftists who aren't really leftists (I.e. Give me more political donations, billion dollar corporations!!!)
  But anyway, I'm sure that's going to be a lot of people who misinterpret my comments because, frankly speaking, most people are idiots.
  My entire on a bridged point is thus. Both sides are garbage.

them: "both sides bad" me: "republicans are bad indeed" them: 😠

I may be left leaning, but I am also afraid of giving voters more power over the economy. Everything we do in housing, which is something people do have a high degree of control, is screwed up. People also want a huge amount of social programs but low taxes.

Yeah and it's always the others who are toxic and populist, right?
- I may be toxic and populist, depending on who you ask, but I'm not a right-winger hiding behind a thin curtain of 'centrism'.

Not necessarily. I also think that both sides extremes are absolutely awful.
The difference is that us "real" "both-siders" realize and agree that the fascist side is much more imminent and dangerous and therefore tend to ally with the left.
- The difference is that us "real" "both-siders" realize and agree that the fascist side is much more imminent and dangerous and therefore tend to ally with the left.
  Say more about this. Some news articles. Some journalists. Some academic papers. Something to validate your statement here.
  
  While their claim isn't falsifiable, because someone who doesn't isn't a real both-sideser

this is very convenient this just means im always correct because everything else is just a right winger as if that's argument.
- Life would be better for everyone if right wingers would just shut the fuck up and keep their hands to themselves. But they just want to hurt everyone else, so their opinions are worth less than moose shit. When a right wing fuck is talking, there's only lies to hear.
  Fuck them all.
  
  is this not a very progressive nice thing to say. maybe just maybe don't be a fucking hypocrite. try being consistent in your values then just maybe someone would take you more seriously. advise from a centrist.

- Sorry your favorite genocider lost, asshole.
  Yeah, I'm sorry the less genocidal option lost. Sorry that you think that more genocide was preferable. You'll get to enjoy more genocide, it'll give you good feelies for your left-purism, I guess.

- Look into how democracy falls to fascism. One of the common traits is the far left and the center left fighting each other while a unified right takes control.
  
  And you choose to contribute to it instead of letting leftists have a turn after 50 years of stagnation.
  I'm done coddling the Neoliberals.
- Well if you want fascists to keep winning you have to right attitude.
  We have well over 50 years of evidence that attempts at top down change always backfire. If you don't want weak willed beholden people being nominated for leadership roles. Focus on filling all the offices beneath them with people who aren't.
  Even had Sanders made it into office. He would have struggled continuously to accomplish anything with all the people underneath him.
  It is a literal yet unfortunate fact that we must hold our noses and vote for anyone who stands a chance at beating a Republican in a national presidential election. Until such time as the parties have been taken over by people who wouldn't nominate someone like that.
  
  Here's the hitch:
  It is a literal yet unfortunate fact that we must hold our noses and vote for anyone who stands a chance at beating a Republican in a national presidential election. Until such time as the parties have been taken over by people who wouldn't nominate someone like that.
  This strategy guarantees that the parties will keep nominating someone like that. (After all, they keep winning.) There's no mechanism for replacing the party leadership in it, nor any realistic scenario by which it would happen.
  
  This already happened in 2016, why am i the only one who remembers?!?!
  Supporting one side of the Duopoly keeps us in the Duopoly forever.
  Get over the democratic party, many already have
- Doing nothing, whilst being very shitty, is definitely better than doing active evil.
  
  This has been the rhetoric for 50 years.
  The last 50 years have lead to where we are now.
  It's time for new rhetoric besides "well the best we can hope for is a steady decline instead of a drop!"
- You're somehow incapable of seeing that you just described your own political ideology.

- It's common sense from an outsider perspective that any organization that expects children to pledge allegiance to it 3000 times before adulthood is loaded with propaganda and the kids that graduate from that aren't going to have proper common sense.
  And just because other countries aren't as obviously villainous about it doesn't make their standardized textbooks and their corporate media (much of it imported from the propaganda empire above) that much less propagandistic.
  So it's common sense that common sense is tainted by decades of propaganda, and actually understanding something means unlearning what they taught you and looking with fresher eyes.
  So you're right, common sense is for chumps, and that's just common sense.
- Not anymore, no.
  Both parties are banking on the hysteria of their constituencies to stay in power.
  It works.
- Seems like the right is retarded.
  
  It's not the 80s anymore. The correct term is that they are Ignorant, racist, bigots.