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Do You Understand How Dangerous This Moment Is — How Far We've Drifted?

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Do You Understand How Dangerous This Moment Is — How Far We've Drifted? | Common Dreams

Once the government claims the right to strip anyone of due process, rights cease to be rights and become privileges, granted or revoked at the whim of those in power. That is not a constitutional democracy. That is the scaffolding of fascism.

40 comments

  • Nope. Most people are still trying to pass the blame for it. That this isn't a failure of us as a general population. This is all somehow on the Democrats for not catering to them perfectly. Or coming out to hold their hand. That we have no Duty ourselves and no responsibility. That we as a population didn't let the national parties get to where they are through complacency. That this isn't still ongoing because of complacency

    I literally had someone tell me last night that those of us solely focused on keeping a fascist out of office. Were only interested in a short-term future. Nothing long-term. Not actually fixing anything. Like in 4 years we're just all going to get a mulligan, and all the egregious shit that has happened and will happen in the next four years is just going to be magically unto itself. No fam, those rights whether or not we ever really had them are completely gone now.

    A lot of immigrants and Muslims voted for Trump instead of Harris because of all the one-sided stink raised around Biden Harris. As if there was ever a more appropriate time to both sides of things. And all these people so fond of both sidesing things couldn't do it. Even more were demotivated not to vote. And even with all that the Democrats only lost by single digit percentage. But at least so many of these people have their ideological purity to comfort them. As families are torn apart, people killed kidnapped and tortured. Until they can acknowledge that they had a hand in this. We will just keep moving down this path slowly if we're lucky.

    • My question for you is: Would fascism in 2029 have been better than fascism in 2025? Maybe fascism in 2033? I sincerely hope you don't think you were ever going to avoid fascism by voting Democrat.

    • No, the Democrats are too blame. You can only run as "at least we're not fascists" for so long before you wear out the response. They didn't fight fascism, they didn't push for a better world, they tried to meet fascism halfway

      They didn't jail Trump for attempting an insurrection, they didn't fix voting, they didn't listen to the voters.

      They just keep insisting everything is ok. They actively adopt the language of maga. They refuse to use any power they do have - they just make slippery slope arguments and talk down to their constituents. Things are not ok, our lives are getting worse faster than they carefully tweak things to offer half measures

      This is not the voter's fault. The Democratic party gave America an ultimatum - "take what we give you or you get fascists". They did it three times. It barely worked once

      • How is that not shared fault by your own definition? Like I get that democrats shit the bed due to greed and good old fashioned ineptitude but if the options are status quo or unbridled fascism I can't see how someone can choose fascism and expect to remain blameless.

        • Because one of these actions was a deliberate course taken by a group, the other is the reaction of the population

          Someone has a gun to your head and tells you to march. Every time you slow or stumble they press the gun against your head and repeat the threat. How long do you march?

          It's been hours, and your body barely responds to you. The adrenaline has worn out, you fall again and they repeat the threat. Do you march yourself to death? Do you just refuse to stand? Do you dare them to shoot you?

          In none of these cases is it actually your fault. Maybe you could've survived the march. Maybe you were marching to your burial site. It doesn't matter, you weren't really given a choice

          In other words, it's victim blaming.

          • Yeah, that would be a good argument if it wasn't a blatant case of emotional manipulation and a poor metaphor on top of that.

            Like it or not your life comes with responsibilities, one of those responsibilities are to those around you. Your gun to the head metaphor implies that you are the only part impacted by the consequences of your actions, but that's obviously not the case here. If you imagine 100 gunmen have guns to 100 people's heads and then tell on the them to start marching or else they all get shot, then it would at least be a little closer. I can understand and even sympathize with the unfortunate situation the marcher is put in but that doesn't mean he still won't receive some of the blame when he decides for the entire group that enough is enough and he'd rather just end the whole thing then and there.

            I think this is what the rest of us see as the core of the problem and what you all seem unwilling to see; refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils is inherently selfish, even if it is understandable.

            • I agree, it's basically a team of gunmen forcing a crowd of prisoners. I didn't want to make the metaphor too complicated, but that's exactly what it is

              Voting for the lesser of two evils is obeying the gunmen. Meanwhile, others in the group have died of exhaustion, continuing to walk means more will drop

              The best thing to do is to all unite as one and take the guns... But you have to act as one. People will get shot, and it might all be for nothing if we don't commit

              What we have now is a tense standoff. Part of the group is negotiating with the gunmen to try to get them to shoot someone else, part of the group is making eye contact and getting into position, and the majority is just scared

              You can talk about responsibility to the group... I'd agree. But obeying the gunmen isn't the morally superior choice, it just kicks the problem down the road so we can do it again, when everyone is more exhausted and more people have dropped already

              • Hey! I actually agree with everything you said so that's kind of fun for us! The big problem I see is that the people who decided to make a stand in the last election really had to plan to ensure group buy in so there was no real path to success, just moral high ground for those that refused to vote for more of the same.

                Assuming that it's not too late at this point we need real leaders with a real plan to get real people behind a movement for change. If the next four years end in a vote that ushers in change with first destabilizing the entire world then I'll happily admit I was wrong but my fear and the fear of most everyone else who voted for Harris despite it being more of the same is that we won't get a chance for real change without a full on coup now that Trump is in control again.

                • Yeah, well we didn't manage to stop Trump when he wasn't in office, and I squarely blame Democrats for that. Maybe Harris would have been better in the long view, but maybe not...

                  Yes, Trump and co are going to try to rig the elections. Or more accurately, they're currently trying to rig state elections to work out what will work and what won't

                  But Trump is his own worst enemy... Well, second worst, after Musk. People are fucking livid with him, and they're about to be a lot more upset when they see empty shelves. People are demanding representatives do something, and Trump's actions haven't even really hit people yet... But they will

                  We are where we are, the gunmen are shooting people at random. They're demanding we march even faster.

                  Which is obviously bad, but they're also backing us into a corner. The sheer amount of malicious incompetence means that people are reacting, even diehard maga are starting to wonder if they messed up. Today we even had MTG go for a power grab

                  It's going to be an interesting summer

    • You realize you’re passing the blame to voters who weren’t thrilled with democrats’ slogan “everything’s fine, what are you whining about?”

      • 100%. You realize things would be significantly better than they are had Democrats won right? I don't blame people for not being excited. But the only options were open fascism or democrats. I can 100% blame people for not being motivated enough to vote against open fascism. I can 100% blame people for working super hard to demotivate people from voting for Democrats in the presidential election. So much so that they actually convinced many people to vote against their interests, and vote for the fascist.

        Now instead of working to improve things from the imperfect situation we were in before. We've solidly lost several rights and are now in a much bigger hole than ever. All it would have taken is just a percentage or two more worth of votes. Instead we keep repeating 1980. Protest voting ourselves out of relevance because someone who doesn't pass our purity test or excite us enough.

      • Yes.

        Because they allowed a felon rapist traitor to become our leader, and that scum is now crashing our economy and creating a fascist regime. Which is exactly what we said would happen if they didn't vote or voted 3rd party.

        Do you think I was THRILLED with Democrats this time around?

        No.

        But I'm not stupid enough to let that get in the way of trying to prevent what's happening now.

        These people need to grow the fuck up and make the BEST decision in the reality they live in. They didn't. And now we're suffering the consequences. And it's just the beginning.

    • You're getting downvoted but you're right.

      The two parties have WILDLY different standards. Democrats have to be flawless while Republicans get to be lawless.

      People would much rather blame Democrats than accept that the American electorate is at fault for failing an open book test. Sure, political parties have to work to prove their worth (well, some of them), but American voters also need to be responsible and inform themselves.

      "They didn't earn my vote."

      Did the felon rapist earn your vote? Did the Democrats not earn your vote by having a voting history proving they regularly vote in favor of the middle/lower classes? Do they need to get on their knees and suck your dick to earn your vote? Is impending fascism not enough to move the needle for you?

      Our political parties may be trash, but so is our electorate. Our political parties are literally a reflection of our electorate.

      • Yes people would do well to understand that we have the representatives we deserve. Not the ones we want. And there's a reason for that.

        I keep seeing all this unearned bravado and confidence. People shouting how if Democrats want to stop losing they need to start supporting them. And I'm like oh what office did you win?

    • Completely agree. There are plenty of points where you can effect change but when that final election comes you vote for the better option for that race. And if you did not do that, yeah Im pissed at you but the important thing is you learn your lesson and do the sensible thing in the future.

      • Yes unfortunately you can see all the ones desperately down voting. Trying to deny it. Even though their ideological purity won't feed The Starving Children in gaza. Won't reunite all the destroyed families. Won't bring back all the innocent young men not sold into slavery. But that we are now through our government paying to be held as slaves to someone else. Honestly I think a lot of them meant well. We all do. But we all make mistakes as well. However not all of us can acknowledge that.

        • Lemmy is full of fools who voted 3rd party or didn't vote and are very, very upset when you point out how foolish they were.

          They'll make the same mistake next time around. There's no learning involved for them.

          • And the thing really is we don't care that they made a mistake. We all make mistakes. All any of us is asking for is just for them to say well we done f***** up let's not do that again in the future.

            I've watched this repeat for 50 years straight. Over 30 years as a voter. One step forward two steps back. But I suspect that describes the last hundred years at least

40 comments