4周前

Voters today

126 评论

I swear to God it's the same 5 accounts on Lemmy posting this horse-shit take.
Like - all the third party voters combined would not have kept Trump out of office. Give it up. It's nonsense and frankly pretty sad.
- I sorta disagree.
  I think the campaign used to push people third party encouraged others to just not vote.
  
  Even IF that's true it's still terrible. What do you think? You're gonna chastise people into agreeing with you? Is some "holier-than-though" attitude gonna do it?
  Really just seems like a circlejerk
  
  No I'm just saying people who think protest voting or throwing your vote away is ever smart, this is proof it isn't.
  This really entirely could've been avoided and this was one of the steps in a stairwell of bullshit that could've stopped it all
  
  The fundamental idea of democracy is that you have your say. Even if the outcome isn't your's, your vote showed how much people wanted the other things, this influencing the group that got it.
  Your thinking anti-democratically. You are chastising individual voices in the system for not doing what you wanted for your outcome. That's literally how authoritarianism starts. Check yourself.
  
  Lol no it absolutely isn't.
  The fundamental aspect of democracy isn't just that you get a say, it's that I get to say your say is stupid especially if I can show reasons why it's dumb
  Voting against your own interest, choosing not to represent yourself and opting to "punish" your representatives by not voting for them isn't smart and there is proof in the pudding.
  Check yourself, running around like you're the democracy police. Please
  
  Go watch a documentary on democracy.
  You are locked in a two party system, so you seem to have this idea that you have to choose blue to prevent red.
  That notion of thought is literally anti-democratic. It is against the voice of the people. It stifles the people and presents two shit options instead of listening or having the people in power. Your voice is taken away and you are in support of that. You are literally trying to explain democracy to me throigh anti-democratic notions.
  With such an understanding of democracy, I can only assume you have a US education.
  
  That's idiotic.
  The two party system is largely inevitable in America so you act accordingly.
  It's literally not anti democratic that's a ridiculous statement. Not allowing people to vote or punishing them for it is anti democratic calling someone a moron for their voting behavior is not anti democratic that is some serious bubble wrap bullshit if you think that.
  
  By definition, something in support of stifling peoples' voices is anti-democratic. Being told how to vote by you or not being given the option to vote for something representative of me is anti-democratic.
  If the Ancient Greeks saw people calling the US government a democracy, they'd be offended. Much of the social struggles are because a lack of democratic infrastructure and a lack of understanding what democracy actually is.
  You've been fed a narrative that you've clearly swallowed. You don't even get a say on who your leader is, you're provided a set of options, told it's democratic, and patted on the bum on the way out.
  
  Hahahaha you're like a kid or something right?
  Being told how to vote by you or not being given the option to vote for something representative of me is anti-democratic
  This is not forcing you to vote, my opinion is not forcing anyone to do anything. My opinion is the basis of a democracy I am allowed to have it whatever it may be that's literally the basis of a free democracy.
  Me saying you're a knobhead for voting third party or against one's own interest is not anti democratic and if you think it is you're literally a moron there is no other way to put it I cannot understand how anyone thinks me having an opinion is anti democratic that's asinine, idiotic, foolish and completely and utter just not it. I dunno who convinced you that your opinion isn't allowed to be challenged but you're wrong. You're so wrong lol.
  Second, not being given the option to vote for something representative of yourself is also not anti democratic, again it's actually a huge facet democracy that being the simple fact that -- people do not have to agree, accept or embrace you.
  I dunno what first grade teacher sent you into the world thinking everyone has to agree with you and nobody can have a negative opinion or that means you're oppressed or some shit but it's not true.
  The simple basis of democracy is everyone has a say and can share that. Lmfao
  
  Ah, the classic "you must be a child" stance. I've now heard all I need to know and things are much clearer. What a waste of time.
  Go watch that documentary. I can recommend a few. Better yet, come join me in Athina. We have two museums that cover our ideology extensively. Children go there all the time too so they're well educated on the topic. The boards are in English, so you should be fine.
  
  Even IF that’s true it’s still terrible. What do you think? You’re gonna chastise people into agreeing with you?
  Reminding everyone that being a Nazi supporter is, in fact, bad, is good practice. That exact mindset of "Never be mean to anyone who supports fascism 🥺" is half the fucking reason that fascism got mainstreamed in this country. People sitting on the fence are more likely to shy away from something that is thoroughly condemned than something that gets a "Well, your support of shipping undesirables to death camps is a Respectable Position, let's agree to disagree 😊"
  
  I'm talking about people who otherwise mostly agree with you can we not be obtuse?
  
  If someone who "Mostly agrees" with me thinks "Let fascism win" is a viable course of action because of some fucking accelerationist fantasy, they are, in practical terms, not really much less of an enemy than people who mostly disagree with me.
  Fuck man, millions are projected to die just from USAID's defunding. Thousands more will die in Ukraine and Palestine from the Trump admin's fuckery. They're setting up concentration camps and illegally (yes, illegal even under the rather permissive anti-immigration laws of the US as they stand now) deporting people to black sites in foreign countries and then saying they can't bring them back, even if it is a mistake. When Medicaid expansion is rolled back, as looks pretty fucking possible, I, personally, will be living life on a very brief timer.
  People who sat back and smugly said "Well, both sides are the same, I'm going to work against the anti-fascist candidate" are no allies of anything except fascism, regardless of how left-wing they profess to be or how many individual issues they agree with me on.
  
  No they can't not be obtuse, during the election this user and disguyovahere both were going on and on about how the left is the problem for criticizing the dems for their innmuerable terrible decisions that got us here. But no, it's the voters fault, many of us whom have grittered their teeth and voted Dem for years as they continued to be ineffectual and handed our country to the fucking fascists
  
  voted Dem for years as they continued to be ineffectual and handed our country to the fucking fascists
  If you bothered to actually pay attention and do things like look up the voting history of both parties. Bills that they've passed. Then you'd be aware that the Democrat party is NOWHERE NEAR as ineffectual as the Republican party. To call Dems ineffectual when we're in the midst of what we're in right now, when mere months ago we had stability, professionalism, and a strong economy under the Dems, is simply disingenuous.
  No one but American voters handed our country to fucking fascists. It's up to American voters to responsibly inform themselves and vote responsibly. Blaming Dems for the failure of American voters is also disingenuous.
  
  I'm certainly no republican lmfao but to say America was stable and great under Biden is a bit silly, obviously it's not the same level as now because Trump is a lunatic, you're just comparing Republicans vs Democrats, whereas I'm specifically saying the democrats already don't do nearly enough.
  I mean, more stayed home then voted as per usual, they were literally going against Trump and managed to lose. Do you wonder why they aren't winning over voters? It's because they aren't doing enough to move the needle in a positive direction, so people become disillusioned, we need a strong progressive leader like Bernie who is more willing to fight against the established ghouls in the democratic party who are just as corrupt as the Republicans.
  I don't know what more I can say then we can have better if the democrats actually wanted to fight for the things they campaigned on instead of a majority of them doing the bare minimum to stay elected and keep getting that lobbyist cash.
  
  to say America was stable and great under Biden is a bit silly,
  Jesus, people have such a short attention span.
  Covid-19 fucked the economy hard. It was really, really bad. That started under Trump, and Biden was trying to pick up the pieces. By the time Trump was elected, the foundation had been restored. I don't know how much you paid attention, but economists had been talking about how we were going to have a hard landing, that we were going to have a recession, because of all the money that had been handed out by Biden to stem the economic tide caused by covid-19... And then, the summer before the election, economists were saying, huh, maybe everything is going to be fine after all.
  Does that mean that things didn't suck for a lot of people as housing prices went through the roof? No. But it meant that labor markets were tight, and a lot of people could hop jobs to get better pay. (Not everyone, but a lot of people.)
  Going back to 2008, we had the same thing; the housing bubble popped under Dubya, and took the economy with it. (That, BTW, is why I couldn't get a job related to my degree; I graduated in the middle of that, and there were no jobs to be had in my field.) Obama spent eight years as president trying to get things back on track with the policies that he could control. And, by the time Trump was elected, most people were doing a lot better than they had been doing at the height of the recession. Bush had inherited a booming economy and an enormous budget surplus from Clinton; he absolutely tanked it with deregulation and tax cuts. Clinton, in turn, took a relatively stagnant economy from Bush Sr., and oversaw it getting turned around.
  We keep having this same fucking cycle, and we've been having it for at least fifty fucking years now. People can't remember anything past two years ago, and so they vote for the fucking morons that keep shitting the bed on the economy, or they sit it out because they don't think their vote matters, or vote 3rd party because they don't understand how voting works in the US.
  
  It's ironic you say "people have such a short attention span" then immediately ignore that the economy was not doing well under Biden either for regular people. I agree the economists spewing bullshit were indeed spewing bullshit, I never once said I had that specific opinion.
  I don't want to argue about things we agree on when the thing we disagree on is not related.
  Things were OK at best under Biden and he should have done better to deliver for the American people to have urged a stronger response in voters, it's stupid but it's the truth. And the Democratic party is too deep in the pocket of big money to ever make the changes necessary to show to people that the Republicans are full of shit.
  
  What do you think? You’re gonna chastise people into agreeing with you?
  If someone's dumb enough to vote 3rd party in a PRESIDENTIAL election then there's no getting them to agree with common sense. The point is to call their dipshittery out with logic so that young people who are forming their opinions see how stupid they are and avoid also being that stupid.
- It's also a false statement.
  The final numbers show Trump with 2.3 million more votes. 77.3 million (49.8%) vs 75 million (48.3%) of the total vote. Third part candidates, including write-ins, were 2.13% of the vote. 2.97 million people voted third party or write in. This is also not counting the 90 million that didn’t vote but where registered.
  If every single third party voter voted Harris, she would have won.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_and_independent_candidates_for_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election
  
  That's.... Not how US elections work. Otherwise Hillary would've won 2016
  Looking at the state results it doesn't appear that any state would've flipped blue if all third party voters excluding Robert Kennedy and Oliveros (libertarian) voters because they definitely would not have gone Harris went Harris. Even if you count the right wing 3rd party ones she only would've won 2 more states and still lost.
  If we used the popular vote I definitely would've voted Harris, but as it is Trump was going to win my state by huge margins so I just voted who I really wanted knowing it made no difference. In races other than president I went Dem.
- Yes. They would have.
  
  No, they really would not have.
  At best if you generously count right wing third party voters too (like Robert Kennedy voters) she would've won two more states but that would not have won her the election.
- Yeah, I'm pretty set on blaming anyone that voted for Trump. I do get annoyed by people that voted third party or just not at all, but its not their fault by any means. Even though the latter combined would have made a difference, it was republican states that withheld hundreds of thousands from the ability to vote, and that mixed with people that voted for the Republicans cutting voting rights are the source of the problem.
- all the third party voters combined would not have kept Trump out of office.
  THEY DIDN'T FUCKING KNOW THAT WHEN THEY VOTED!!!

126 评论