The myth of consensual peace

1915 Lemmy lib: "God the German propaganda on .ml is intense"

The propaganda: Peace pls yes-honey-left

Any info I encounter contrary to the interests of my preferred empire must be the work of the dastardly Foreigner. If the other side wanted peace they should simply unconditionally surrender imaginator (skull can barely contain brain of this size)

And if they won't, we Ukrainians must be willing to give up their lives in a total war until victory (which is going well and good and can be expected to end in that outcome)

Russia's terms have been quite clear since the beginning of the war: a neutral, non-West-aligned Ukraine and the official ceding of Crimea and the breakaway republics. Even regardless of how you feel about those issues, how does it benefit you or the average Ukrainian to keep fighting over this? It is such a pointless, devastating loss of life over shit that obviously represents larger geopolitical issues for the West and Russia while Ukraine is turned into a literal wasteland (omg and the Ukrainian side has been financed by massive Western loans doomer , even if Ukraine "wins" they are gonna be fucked when the creditors come for their repayments after the war which is intentional ofc, will probably result in even more IMF austerity plans and poverty)

Idk, maybe the Ukrainian side could get better terms (they def could have earlier) but they have just refused to actually negotiate (beyond telling the world how "open" they to are it lol) and have taken your total victory position. Ofc there is so much more to say but yeh

I could not possibly be any more Russian.

I am literally a Lada Niva.

Citing gallup sources is Russian propaganda? Lmao are US schools just propaganda conditioning centers or what

Hey Russia is more than welcome to go back home any day and they there will be peace.

Like blaming a strike on the workers. "Stupid workers picketing for better wages!". Distraction tactic. Management can pay a fair wage and it will be over tonight.

Russia can go home and there would be peace tomorrow
- Russia can go home and there would be peace tomorrow
  
  That's about as likely to happen as Israel fucking off from Palestine. So where does that leave us?
  
  Shooting Russians I guess.
  
  No idea, I'll leave that to others, but I'll say that this meme is about as laughable as Israel saying Palestine is causing all the violence. I'll concede that Palestine started this specific thing, but no where nearly the magnitude that Israel retaliated with. (And even that's debatable). I'm just sick of these places trying to swap the narrative. No, if you want peace, you can achieve that today! Just... Stop the aggression and done! It's over!
  
  Palestine started this specific thing, but--
  
  Palestine started this specific thing, but no where nearly the magnitude that Israel retaliated with. (And even that's debatable).
  
  What specifically are you referring to with the "debatable" part at the end there?
  
  Palestine started this specific thing
  
  Russia is welcome to unconditionally leave at any time
  
  Political infant detected, opinions rightfully discarded. History did not begin in 2022 or 2023.
- Russia can go wherever they want and the problem won't be resolved. It's not about what countries are involved in Ukraine, it's about why countries feel the need to go there in the first place. Ukraine, like Haiti, Syria, and Sudan - to name a few more - is a site of inter-capitalist rivalry
  
  You can get peace - sure - but the Ukrainian economy will be subjugated to whoever the 'victor' is. You can argue that economic integration reduces conflict and wars, but what will remain is a sort of neo-colonial relationship; or a dependency of sorts. That's what I have an issue with.
  
  But that is the only realistic outcome - that exact economic dependency on one power or another (whether that be the US, the EU, or even Russia, or even a mixture, say, for instance, the EU+US or EU+Russia)
  
  There are no liberationary movements in Ukraine to my knowledge, just a reactionary military regime where political rights have been greatly reduced, even by liberal standards for governance. It is exceptionally rare that a country caught between two capitalist rivals gets the ability to form their own sovereign and independent liberation
- No it wouldn't, delusional as usual from libs. Ukraine was bombing Donbas from 2015, killing upwards of 14k people.
  
  This was after the Minsk II accords where they negotiated, which is very reminiscent of the Israeli tactics in Lebanon of announcing a ceasefire and insisting only your opponent abide by it. It's reminiscent because that's the standard US client tactic, which they implement with complicity from the media knowing libs treat contradictory evidence as propaganda.
  
  You know a great way they could stop that from happening? Exiting the country they invaded.
  
  R*ddit is down the hall and to the right
  
  Did your script get jammed? They were bombing Donbas in violation of the peace deal for years after Russians had already exited the country.
  
  If the US insists on its clients violating brokered agreements, they shouldn't be surprised when others don't trust their word.
  
  Got it. So for that instance, a great way to have peace would for be for them not to do that.
  
  A great way to have peace right now would be for Russia to leave. Like a great way for there to have peace would be for everyone to just.... Have peace. Easy peasy.
  
  Christ, I can get more intelligent conversation from a 7 year old anywhere in the world than a western adult I stg. It's like talking to Matt Miller.
  
  Correct! The way to get peace really is so simple that a 7 year old could have thought of it!
  
  Y'all can't even fucking read lmao not even pretending you found a gotcha, just doing madlibs with a word or two you found in the comment.
  
  No wonder it's so easy to propagandize you.
  
  If everyone around you disagrees with you, maybe it's time to be open to the posibility that you are wrong?
  
  Nah, I base my opinion around the evidence. If the consensus of the US and Western Europe was what drove my opinion, I'd have been in favor of killing Gaddafi, invading Iraq, torturing Asians in Vietnam, bombing Iran, and all other sorts of monstrous shit.
  
  I'll wait for y'all to pretend you were always on the fence or against but simultaneously there was no way of knowing, since only the tankies were saying it and we know we can't trust those.
  
  Your boos mean nothing; I've seen what makes you cheer
  
  If everyone around you disagrees with you, maybe it’s time to be open to the posibility that you are wrong?
  
  give it time and you'll see how reality makes us all aware
  
  everyone else has work to do to put food on the table; we can't respond as quickly.
  
  I think the Twitter bots would happily agree with you, but you don't have much support to collect from here.
One look into your comment history tells me everything I need to know about your opinions.
- I know correct communist opinions are like the Ark of the Covenant to you losers, but I promise you that eventually you can learn to safely hold dangerous opinions like "Nazis are bad", if you try
  
  Of course it was just one look, one quick look is all you libs can stomach
- Libs doing cartwheels to not engage with the evidence lmao. Are Ukrainians not wanting peace deals? If so, they should get them then. Fuck if a gringo thinks they oughta die because they think Ukrainians should keep fighting.
  
  My dude, I'm not American. I'm from Europe. I don't give a fuck about libs or any of the political parties in the States. Our news reports that yes, there are some people who want the war to stop, but they are a very small minority - the majority wants Russia to fuck off right back and leave them alone.
  
  Please shove a cactus into that anus-looking thing you call a face.
  
  From the article
  
  In Gallup’s latest surveys of Ukraine, conducted in August and October 2024, an average of 52% of Ukrainians would like to see their country negotiate an end to the war as soon as possible. Nearly four in 10 Ukrainians (38%) believe their country should keep fighting until victory.
  
  Woops, guess your very small minority actually is the majority
  
  You're still doing the propaganda work of the gringos.
  
  The point is, Ukrainians want it, Ukrainians should get it. You think the war should continue? That's fine, get your country to wage it so you can go and fight it.
  
  I don’t give a fuck about libs or any of the political parties in the States.
  
  Libs == liberals == https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
  
  Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property and equality before the law.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property
  
  Private property is foundational to capitalism, an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. As a legal concept, private property is defined and enforced by a country's political system.
  
  In other words, liberals are capitalism stans.
Since you assume everyone is either American or Russian, you're probably russian then? Shouldn't you be on a field killing random people until you get shot yourself?
- I'm not assuming anyone is Russian but nice try. I assume most of the negative ones are either American or Western European, because that's almost the only regions where Russia is viewed very unfavorably by a clear majority, and this site skews anglo as shit, that is the UK, the US, and Australia.
  
  I'm not for more war, but y'all weirdos hear "we should listen to ukrainians and initiate peace talks" and interpret "we should unconditionally surrender the entirety of Ukraine and then most of eastern europe while we're at it", maybe because the only peace you'd accept is the unconditional surrender of Russia and its balkanization. Hate to break it to you, it's not happening. Russia's economy is outperforming most western ones, is growing faster than all of the major economies and has just surpassed Japan as the 4th in the world by GDP adjusted for purchasing power parity. But I imagine the World Bank is somehow Putin in disguise as well.
  
  It's better to engage with reality than sacrifice Ukranians for your delusions.