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Am i seeing this right, that you can buy raw milk in grocery stores? What the fuck?
Raw milk gets bad way to fast in order to sell it in a grocery store.
Imagine deliberately paying a premium for food that can make you seriously ill.
Imagine deliberately paying a premium for food that can make you seriously ill.
This applies to maybe 80% of what's in a grocery store.
When kept below about 3C raw milk can last 7-10 days. The problem mainly is in the handling - the longer it's shipped and more it's handled the higher the likelihood it ends up above safe temperatures, reducing that time significantly. And we've all seen how grocery stores handle their perishables... LOL.
Filthy farming practices don't help.
Filthy farming practices don’t help.
No they don't. And that applies universally.
Considering farms are pretty much exclusively in rural areas and how rural areas generally lean politically, it's a testament to the human immune system that food poisoning deaths aren't more widespread. Or maybe a testament to the usefulness of food production regulations. Guessing we'll find out which one by 2030, assuming it will be allowed to be reported on.
Or maybe new conspiracy theories will pop up over the next few years, oddly aligning with current health and safety science.
EVEN THOUGH VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM, TURNS OUT THEY'VE BEEN PREVENTING LIBERAL DISEASES THAT CAUSE BABIES TO COUGH THEMSELVES TO DEATH THIS WHOLE TIME!
NOT BRINGING MILK TO JUST UNDER A BOIL MIGHT MAKE IT SAFER TO CONSUME BUT IS HURTING THE OIL COMPANIES THAT GIVE US THE FREEDOM TO TRAVEL (WHEN YOU HAVE AN APPROVED REASON TO TRAVEL)!
SOLAR PANELS STEAL ENERGY FROM THE SUN, REDUCING ITS EXPECTED LIFETIME, BUT BRAND NEW TRUMP PANELS GENERATE FREE ELECTRICITY FROM THE VACUUM WHEN EXPOSED TO DIRECT LIGHT!
Considering farms are pretty much exclusively in rural areas and how rural areas generally lean politically, it’s a testament to the human immune system that food poisoning deaths aren’t more widespread
It may be helpful to read up on food-borne illnesses and their vectors. I say this because what I interpret from your comment is that rural areas are "dirty" and that right-leaning areas are somehow "dirtier" by virtue of being lax in food safety.
Strictly speaking this isn't the way it works and it's important to understand how contamination occurs. Almost all pathogens end up in food in two ways: field hands with inadequate sanitation and contamination through handling, processing, and packaging. The vast majority of these cases occur when food supply chains are long and complex and when safety is compromised in the name of profit. For example cutting corners in poultry handling or paying farm workers by the unit rather than by time, such that they are strongly incentivized to urinate or defecate in the field.
Food production regulations are actually quite stringent further along the supply chain (See the Food Safety Modernization Act and Produce Safety Rule) but there are gaps (this is an ag joke) on the production side, particularly in enforcement.
Your best bet is to seek to shorten the supply chain for the food you buy. Avoid processed foods and buy as close to the source as you can. Favoring organically-grown produce direct from a farmer just about guarantees that your food is safe. For example, organic regulations through the National Organic Program require a long period of time between use of manure and harvesting to ensure pathogens break down. It's a common misconception that poop is used directly on growing crops.
Some reading:
USDA food borne illness guide: https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/foodborne-illness-and-disease FSMA Final Rule on Produce Safety: https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-modernization-act-fsma/fsma-final-rule-produce-safety
It may be helpful to read up on food-borne illnesses and their vectors. I say this because what I interpret from your comment is that rural areas are "dirty" and that right-leaning areas are somehow "dirtier" by virtue of being lax in food safety.
Yeah, I meant the association between right-leaning and "probably thinks safety regulations are a government overreach and waste of time that can be ignored if you can get away with it". And non-existent rights for immigrant workers, including unhygienic living conditions imposed on them.
And an assumption that choices between profit or safety will be more likely to err on the side of profit than safety if they believe they can get away with it, with the "fuck you, I got mine" mindset seeming to be stronger on the right.
Thanks for the comment and info though. My own comment wasn't really fair or useful.
It's a good point. And certainly a lot are resistant to any oversight or regulation. But I find right-leaning people are actually very quick to obey and are generally pretty compliant, for all the bluster. They are fearful people.
But also there is a strong incentive to ensure food you grow is not going to kill your customers or get you sued. But this only really works when it's you as an individual. As soon as you are a corporation...
I believe it has to be bought at the farm but they still do commercial packaging
That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought, that so many people buy raw milk, that its profitable to do commercial packaging.
Is it like a new thing? I never heard anyone making a fuss about raw milk other than like the Amish for the quarter of a century I've been around.
It seems to be based around the people who just look for problems to have, like okay when are people gonna start drinking bottled puddle water because "its got natural minerals and bacteria" or some nonsense.
Raw water was a thing. Not sure if it's still a trend but it definately happened.
Isn't that just like Fiji water type brands where they just "fill the bottles with natural spring water" when it's just coming from some basin?
Here's the link to the Cleveland Clinic article about the raw water trend: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/raw-water
Doesn't it last 5-7 days? In Europe it is long enough.
People like my boomer mother will buy a gallon of milk and expect it to be good for 2+weeks.
She is part of the reason I do a small shopping every couple days and only buy what I need for the foreseeable future. An entire generation of Americans that are used to everything being so pumped with preservatives that we can eat a Twinkie that rolled under the couch last presidential election.
Yet, we have to scrub eggs of their natural coating at the farm, requiring them to be refrigerated.
Food regulation in the US hasn't moved very far from the 60s.
All i can say is, that at "normal" refrigirator temperatures milk will be good for 3-4 days. Cant say anything for temperatures below that
Looked at milk I have.
Expiration period: 6 days.
Storage temperature (4±2) °C
Did you mean 3-4 days since purchase? Here it's counted from production date.
I mean 3-4 days since production. In this case it might be higher, since Theres no exposure to the surrounding air.
Why are people surprised by this? Do you guys not have refrigerators in your grocery stores?
Raw milk gets bad after about 3-4 days, even with constant cooling. This period is way to short to sell it at grocerie stores in any big scale.
Are you american?
Bo and it is in no way relevant. Since it seems like you think that what I say is wrong, I know this, because I came from a farm.
because I came from a farm
I know what you mean but this amuses me immensely.
username checks out
It is relevant. The quality of the food chain and regulations where you live play a huge role in that particular society's feel about raw products.
You'd be surprised to find that in some countries people eat raw ground pork as a normal thing and nobody dies.
I'd like to know which farm you worked in because the fact you think so poorly about the food that comes out of it means I absolutely need to avoid anything you guys make.
It is relevant. The quality of the food chain and regulations where you live play a huge role in that particular society's feel about raw products.
OK, you got a point there.
For the other part, you can trust me, that in a refrigerator milk will get bad after 3-4 days. If you cool it at about 2-3°C it is good for longer time(obviously), but I can't tell how long exactly, because the milk never gets that old. As for Quality its quite interesting, that you make assumptions about it without knowing anything. I can assure you, that the milk has good quality. It gets tested every 2 days in terms of fat, germs, protein, and SCC and all of those parameters are always good.
And meat goes bad in the fridge after only a few more days but I don't see you having a meltdown over butcher shops existing.
In reality people consume raw milk all the time, it's just some countries with absolutely garbage consumer protections where you should avoid drinking it.
Meat lasts longer than that. I buy vacuum packed whole prime cuts of meat for about 10 to 12 days, that tastes as good on day 12 (out of vac pack for 2 days) as it did on day 1
- They're not really having a meltdown
- Meat is frequently bought in single meal/single serving amounts, whereas milk is frequently bought in bulk/multiple-serving amounts. Storing milk is a bigger deal than storing meat, because you much more frequently have leftover milk than leftover raw meat. The two aren't really comparable.
Do you go to the store to buy meat every meal?
Like do you only purchase a single serving of meat every time?
Wtf you guys smoking lmao?
You guys are trying so hard to be right you don't even realize just how dumb it makes you look.
When I get milk I get a few cartons of UHT milk and then one bottle or two of raw milk that I drink first because I'm not a fucking idiot.
I mean, I buy meat a couple pounds at a time, and cook it all at once. The leftovers usually get me most of the way through the week, because I'm usually just cooking for myself. A half gallon of the ultra pasteurized milk will usually last me three or four weeks. Raw milk would be absolutely wasted on me, there's no way I could get through even a small amount before it spoils. I don't know why you're getting so bent out of shape by a take that essentially boils down to "people go through meat faster than milk", it's not exactly a hot take.
NO NO NO raw milk bad! Alternative ideas bad! New evidence bad! Bad things bad!
You see, in America, the milk cattle live in terrible conditions. Mastitis is common. In the US, you really have to pasteurize the milk to kill all the bacteria and viruses that end up in the milk because of the conditions they live in.
I can't say anything about the general health and living conditions of the US cattle, but taking your word for granted its devinetively advised. If the cows are kept under good conditions and a good hygiene is practised usually germs in raw milk aren't that much of a problem.
There is a video I will not point you to, because a hundred vegans probably have already, that show how sad and disgusting factory farming in the US is. I wouldn't drink anything that came out of one of those depressing animal factories unless it had been processed to hell and back.
There are better options on the market, but the average American is going to pay a buck or two less for a gallon from the milk factory. Same thing with eggs, meat.
Conscious food choices are a luxury, here.
They're forced to stand in their own squalor without stalls being mucked out. It's cruel and disgusting.
We do, but we also have pasteurization.
It's like saying 'yes we have foie gras but we also have store brand meat product.'
Mmm gourmet bacteria and viruses.
If they're not from the USA they're just sparkling pathogens.
Oh no, germs. You should go ahead and inject yourself with UV bleach.
You should go ahead and inject yourself with e. coli.
I would but the food control and regulations in my country make it unlikely to happen.
Okay, whether or not raw milk is generally safe, why buy it when there's an alternative that removes the pathogens?
These people voted for trump. Critical thinking isn't in their repertoire.
THe PaThOGeNs aRe gOoD fOr yOU!!!!
Because raw milk contains everything, including all the fat and all the vitamins.
Processed milk usually is first separated between fat and liquid and then the fat is readded. Also the pasteurization destroys some of the vitamins.
More importantly though it just tastes different.
Finally if you want to make yogurt or cream cheese, you want to work of raw milk because it contains the fermenting bacteria, but that is more of a niche application.
Pasteurization by default does not remove all bacteria and probably also not all viruses. The milk you commonly find in supermarkets these days is not only pasteurized at high temperature, but also homogenized (pressed through a microsieve), which further alters the taste, reduces quality but extends the shelf life.
Finally if you want to make yogurt or cream cheese, you want to work of raw milk because it contains the fermenting bacteria, but that is more of a niche application.
If you're going to make anything from milk that requires bacterial cultures and the conditions under which they will grow, you absolutely do not want whatever random cultures that are in a raw product. You start clean and add the cultures you want to propagate. Source: ferments things at home
Why are you getting your vitamins from milk?
Most people get their vitamins from their food, not from dietary supplements.
Last I checked, food other than milk exists.
What the fuck kind of stupid answer is that?
Last I checked, food other than beans exists.
You generally cook beans before you eat them. Guess what pasteurization essentially does?
Why are you getting your vitamin from beans
Because they're a lot less likely to kill me than raw milk is. Why is this even a question? People have literally died from pathogens they caught from drinking raw milk.
I was just giving reason, that exist to prefer raw milk. I only ever drank raw milk when spending vacations on a farm and i didn't buy cow milk since a couple of years.
Still i would like to say that i don't think raw milk is a problematic vector for pandemics to spread. Chance is people will get the shits if hygiene is bad, but i doubt a viral pandemic to spread because of raw milk. More likely would be farm workers getting an infection over the air and then spreading it to other humans.
People who study viruses for a living seem to think it's possible, but I guess as long as you doubt it, no problem.
Pandemic from raw milk? Do you have a source for that?
A source that it's possible? You really need a source that something carrying viruses can be a transmission vector if it jumps to humans? Because I think you need to take a basic virology course in that case.
For starters i find it unlikely that a respiratory disease is transmitted through food. Possible sure. But by the logic of "possible" rather than "probable" we should never leave the house again.