Dé-fédération de hexbear
Dé-fédération de hexbear
Je suis le seul qui a un problème avec cette instance? Il se sont fédérés récemment à la plupart des grosses instances, et à chaque fois que je vois leur commentaires sur certains fils de lemmy.ml [http://lemmy.ml] (par exemple), ça me semble assez probable qu’ils sont liés au PCC. https://jlai.lu/p...
L'année dernière le sujet a été abordés par @AlexisFR@jlai.lu et je souhaite relancé l'idée de dé-fédérer de cette instance.
Je navigue depuis quelque temps sans bloquer la moindre instances question de simuler un peu l'expérience de quelqu'un qui rejoint le fediverse via l'instance jlai.lu.
Les posts qui apparaissent dans le fil et le comportement de la plupart des usagers de cette instance pollue tout simplement l'expérience Lemmy.
Même sans parler de possible liens avec CCP, Kremlin etc... je pense que, à mon humble avis, leur comportement et leur façons de brigader et de diffamer une opinion qui ne diverge que d'à peine d'un poil de leur courant de penser, va sincèrement à l'encontre de l'état d'esprit de notre communauté sur cette instance.
Je me suis opposé sans vraiment me prononcer l'année dernière à une dé-fédération (étant donné qu'ils ne sont pas francophone et que j'aime bien le drama inter-instances de temps temps) mais leurs prises de positions en permanence ahurissantes et (en pesant mes mots au maximum) d'une flagrante dissonance cognitive je dois dire que trop c'est trop.
Je pense sincèrement que malgré le fait nos intéractions soit assez minimes avec cette instance je pense que sur le long terme leur influence est nocive et que, dans l'idée de garder une certaines sérénité pour les personnes et futures personnes qui utiliseront cette instance, qu'il y ai une dé-fédération de cette instance de la notre.
You're viewing part of a thread.
It's great you have that perspective on it individually. You individually might be totally fine. I ask you the same question though: look at the company you keep. One of your mods, a full 1/8th of your monthly userbase, just used tankie as a slur. Against a forum that's... what? Too antizionist? Too antiracist? Too anti-imperialist? Too pro-LGBT? I still don't know either of their specific ideological disagreements with Hexbear and don't care. If I were you I'd be sceptical of people who use words the right-wing uses to describe the same enemies the right-wing has. A nebulous term like tankie can be used to condemn anyone. An out-group enemy that only exists through conspiracy theories can be used to condemn anyone. Neither can be specifically defined in the same way me using "liberal" or "fascist" as an in-group enemy can be. If you feel genuinely committed to something as radical as environmentalism, you're too radical for that forum and you'll be the tankie or the sneaky Asian spy when they run out of more radical candidates. I wouldn't want to be on Hexbear if people used language like that unironically.
One of your mods, a full 1/8th of your monthly userbase, just used tankie as a slur.
How did you come to that number? Our total monthly userbase is 220 users per month for the instance.
I'm just going off the number on the sidebar when I'm viewing your instance through this one. Now it's diluted by this thread and it says 55 users/month, but when I first saw the thread it was at 8/month. Lemmy can be weird about syncing with other things so it might be that: https://i.imgur.com/ODSkS0n.png .
Yeah those counters are usually quite inaccurate, you always have to check on the source instance to be sure.
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May i convaince you otherwise about this mod ? Here is Anansi (sysop) answer to TheFirish :
N'ayant fait part d'aucun exemple concret, je ne vois pas pourquoi on défédèrerait une instance historique.
La seule participation active de leurs membres à l'instance (jlai.lu), est, de mémoire, dans ce thread, ce qui me semble justifié.
Si tu ne souhaites pas voir le contenu d'Hexbear, tu peux la blacklister dans tes options de profil, comme toute autre instance, depuis une ou deux versions de lemmy.
Having not given any concrete examples, I do not see why we would defederate from a historical instance.
The only active participation of their members in the instance (jlai.lu) is, from memory, in this thread, which seems justified to me.
If you don't want to see hexbear's content, you can blacklist it in your profile options, like any other instance, since one or two versions of lemmy.
We had another post about defederating Hexbear long before, almost one year ago where TGhost, thank to her, talked to anansi and convainced him to keep the federation with hexbear.
If you can comment here, and see our posts that's due to @anansi's decision and @TGhost's argument.
Currently, in this thread, heated arguments, meme, trolling, wich are spreading to the whole lemmyverse aren't helping us. They are a fun thing to do but it often end up badly.
Anyway, i hope that translation and this historical decisions/fact from jlai.lu, can give you a new perspective on jlai.lu and anansi.
You can trust us and let us handle the situation.
If you feel genuinely committed to something as radical as environmentalism, you’re too radical for that forum and you’ll be the tankie or the sneaky Asian spy when they run out of more radical candidates.
Attention Snoopy, méfie-toi de nous, on est anti activisme environnemental 😆
I'm not saying you're anti-environmentalists. Plenty of liberals are environmentalists. I'm saying that I've seen two users, including a mod, use undefinable words that have one rhetorical purpose. You use a word like "tankie" or an idea like "all my enemies are foreign spies" to set a limit on dissent. I could ask that user what the specific line between a tankie and non-tankie is, but if that answer even makes sense then it sets a firm limit on how radical someone can be. I'm an eco-Marxist, I study it as closely as I can and work practically as one, the books on my shelf are mostly about what I'd consider part of an eco-Marxist critique. I understand environmentalism as a complex intersectional war of liberation. What part of that makes me a tankie versus the acceptable position? If there's preemptive surrender to power, if some part of that intersectional struggle is unacceptable or some act or idea or theorist is too far, I don't care how many paintings you've splashed with soup today.
Meh, I use tanky to differentiate between leftists and people that cosplay as leftist while excusing genocide and human rights violation whenever it's their flavor of autocrat doing it, not really as an anti-communist word since nobody uses it like that in the first place.
it sets a firm limit on how radical someone can be
No, it sets a limit on how much you accept your fellow comrades from being used as a stepping tool by an authoritarian regime/dictator to be able to call yourself "communist", while ending up in state capitalism anyway.
I may concede that from my years on hexbear, I associate most participants to this kind of communism flavor by default, which may not be your case, but this thread did not really start in good faith, so why would I.
people that cosplay as leftist while excusing genocide and human rights violation whenever it’s their flavor of autocrat doing it
Democrats?
Yes, but not only.
So close to understand my obvious point, you can do it!
Honest question: what do you think of the concept of atrocity propaganda?
On October 10, 1990, a young Kuwaiti girl known only as "Nayirah" appeared in front of a congressional committee and testified that she witnessed the mass murdering of infants, when Iraqi soldiers had snatched them out of hospital incubators and threw them on the floor to die... Nayirah was revealed to be the daughter of Kuwait's ambassador to the United States, and had not actually seen the "atrocities" she described take place
When I see the U.S. making claims about one of its enemies doing atrocities, I'm going to be skeptical, because they've told that exact sort of lie for the exact same reason plenty of times before.
I know it exists and is pretty common in disinformation and propaganda, which is why I wait for international organizations, independent reporters and numerous testimonies before reaching for conclusions.
I also like to consider that when these are the same people and organizations that are making Israel actions public and asking for genocide recognition, than the ones that are doing the same with the Uyghurs genocide for like a decade or two now, they are not Schrodinger propagandists that act at the same time against and for the interests of the US and its imperialists friends (France included).
When I see people making claims that a genocide is not happening when there is an egregious amount of evidences already, using the shittiest wiki entry I've ever seen somewhere in this thread, written by a chinese national from a chinese IP (the edit log is public), with half of the entry having no reference, the other one having chinese state media and youtube videos as source, I'm not only going to be skeptical, but I'll also consider that you'll end up with all the other genocide deniers in history. One of your mate cited Zenz as a gotcha when this shit is known since the 50's and was even a point of contention between the PRC and the Soviets.
Also, as a last note, it doesn't even make sense that the Uyghur genocide would be used as atrocity propaganda simply because of the fact that nobody in the West cares about chineses, muslims and even less about chinese muslims. What would be the point?
In Kuweit and Iraq, it was used to make direct intervention in the country "acceptable" or even positively viewed by the mass. Here, the goal is what? To have sanctions upon China that would cripple only the western economy?
I'll end on a personal note tangentially related that is kind of my conclusion for this whole thread:
Seing all of you parading as "true" leftists while spouting the chinese equivalent of hasbara and not even seing the irony in this makes me hate you even more that shitlibs, and that's even before even considering the history and damage that tankies have done to the worldwide leftist and especially revolutionary movement for the last century.
You'll take whatever is thrown in front of you that agrees with you as proof that you're right rather that actually challenging your views, and for what? Licking the boots of yet another authoritarian regime with state capitalism and a history of purging minorities and commonly violating human rights?
I wait for international organizations, independent reporters and numerous testimonies before reaching for conclusions.
The U.N. does not believe there was a genocide in Xinjiang:
The report published on Wednesday in the wake of the visit by UN High Commissioner of Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet in May, said that “allegations of patterns of torture, or ill-treatment, including forced medical treatment and adverse conditions of detention, are credible, as are allegations of individual incidents of sexual and gender-based violence.” ...
The systems of arbitrary detention and related patterns of abuse since 2017, said OHCHR, “come against the backdrop of broader discrimination” against Uyghur and other minorities.
Obviously there is room for criticizing China here -- credible allegations of torture, ill-treatment, and discrimination should be taken seriously and stopped if those allegations are substantiated. But credible allegations of this nature are on another planet from irrefutable proof of an actual genocide, like we're seeing in Gaza. The actual report does not describe even allegations of genocide and does not use the word itself.
Why do you disbelieve the U.N. here?
Also, as a last note, it doesn’t even make sense that the Uyghur genocide would be used as atrocity propaganda simply because of the fact that nobody in the West cares about chineses
I don't know about other countries, but I could link to 100 U.S.-based articles in the past few years fearmongering about China. Trump railed against China even before Covid, Covid spawned all sorts of anti-Chinese xenophobia and conspiracy theories, Biden made a big deal out of having the military shoot down a Chinese weather balloon that strayed over the U.S., etc.
China is an enormous economic competitor with nukes that is also communist. It is very much a target of the U.S. empire.
Are you for real?
Did you read the report you linked? Is your argument truly that it's ok because the word genocide was not employed and it's just sparkly ethnic cleansing and crime against humanity?
“allegations of patterns of torture, or ill-treatment, including forced medical treatment and adverse conditions of detention, are credible, as are allegations of individual incidents of sexual and gender-based violence.” Tweet URL
In a strongly-worded assessment at the end of the report, OHCHR said that the extent of arbitrary detentions against Uyghur and others, in context of “restrictions and deprivation more generally of fundamental rights, enjoyed individually and collectively, may constitute international crimes, in particular crimes against humanity.”
This is not even talking about the forced erasure of the Uyghur by "importation" of Hans chinese in the province and forced marriage that, once again, was known and criticized even by the Soviets since the 50's.
I don’t know about other countries, but I could link to 100 U.S.-based articles in the past few years fearmongering about China. Trump railed against China even before Covid, Covid spawned all sorts of anti-Chinese xenophobia and conspiracy theories, Biden made a big deal out of having the military shoot down a Chinese weather balloon that strayed over the U.S., etc.
Yeah, and that's achieving what exactly? For an alleged ML you're kind of ignoring the material view of this.
That serves absolutely no purpose for the US, the Xinjiang region provides half of the materials needed for electronics in the world, on which the US economy and power heavily relies on.
China is an enormous economic competitor with nukes that is also communist. It is very much a target of the U.S. empire.
"communist" yeah right lol, their flag is red I guess yeah
It's not even really a target for the US empire since they decided to offshore all their production there. They're entirely dependent on them, and financing Chinese economical imperialism in Africa and South America indirectly.
Did you read the report you linked?
Did you? It contains zero allegations of ethnic cleansing, either.
Torturing prisoners -- something the vast majority of countries that imprison people do -- is a crime against humanity, but there's a vast gulf between that and genocide. And that's setting aside the difference between a credible accusation (what the U.N. found in China) and a mountain of irrefutable evidence (what we have in Gaza).
To analogize, you're basically treating a credible accusation of assault as equivalent to being caught on camera committing multiple homicides. Not the same crime, not the same amount of evidence.
It’s not even really a target for the US empire
You're just flat-out wrong, there's not even any arguing it. Here's a mountain of fearmongering about China, anyway. I'll also refer you to the recent presidential and VP debates.
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