OBJECTION! @ Objection @lemmy.ml Posts 24Comments 2,913Joined 1 yr. ago
You're not just "disagreeing with Lenin" (and characterizing my response that way is an obvious strawman/bad faith), you are disagreeing with Marx, and claiming he said the opposite of what he actually said. The only reason I cited Lenin is because he did a very through job of proving you are wrong, using the exact standard that you said you wanted, "the considered and careful words of Marx and Engels." It's not as though I'm expecting you to accept him as an authority.
Personally, I take a view of Marx and Engels as descriptivists.
Those are literally the words carved on his tombstone.
If only someone could explain why people like you want to defang Marx's writings with this blatant revisionism...
What is now happening to Marx’s theory has, in the course of history, happened repeatedly to the theories of revolutionary thinkers and leaders of oppressed classes fighting for emancipation. During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it. Today, the bourgeoisie and the opportunists within the labor movement concur in this doctoring of Marxism. They omit, obscure, or distort the revolutionary side of this theory, its revolutionary soul. They push to the foreground and extol what is or seems acceptable to the bourgeoisie. All the social-chauvinists are now “Marxists” (don’t laugh!). And more and more frequently German bourgeois scholars, only yesterday specialists in the annihilation of Marxism, are speaking of the “national-German” Marx, who, they claim, educated the labor unions which are so splendidly organized for the purpose of waging a predatory war!
That quote comes from The State and Revolution, which you claim to have read. A claim I find hard to believe considering that the author proceeds to painstakingly refute your exact line of thought and interpretation of Marx, by extensively citing, "the considered and careful words of Marx and Engels."
Lmao. Is this a bit? If I have a narrow-minded perspective on what constitutes a sandwich, does that make me a bigot?
Right, I'm strawmanning. You're totally not.
The US isn't the only country that exploits developing countries, and the rest of western countries help it maintain its hegemony. Still miles away from connecting this to bigotry in any way.
Cool. I am too, which is why I'm opposed to having a single powerful global hegemon throwing its weight around all across the globe and using economic coercion against developing countries. Apparently that makes me a bigot, somehow 🙄
He did not start the movement by excluding certain groups, gangs, movements, organizations, or political leanings.
Pretty sure he never had any intention of working with the KKK. Pretty sure that if the KKK came up to him and told him they wanted to join his movement, he'd tell them to fuck off, the same way virtually anyone would.
Fucking brainworms, stg.
I was not able to find when the Black Panther Party worked with groups associated with the KKK
You weren't, huh? Wow, who woulda guessed?
but they did try to bring white organizations into their working-class movement.
They were willing to work with them, but they did not change their positions to accommodate them. They did not sell out their own members or members of other minority groups in order to appeal to them.
Interesting how your geopolitical positions don't imply bigotry towards the countries you oppose while their geopolitical positions do, somehow 🤔
Chris Smalls was able to achieve a great stepping stone when he was able to make the Amazon Labor Union (ALU) in Staten Island by bringing people from all walks of life and not cherry-picking certain groups and excluding them from the working-class movement.
Sorry, I wasn't aware that one of the "walks of life" Chris Small brought people in from was the fucking KKK. For that matter, I don't recall the Black Panthers befriending the KKK either! Huh, how about that!
Fucking brainworms.
I guess you didn't see the "or something similar."
Yes, they're against western nations, just like they're against the nation of Israel. Thus the comparison. Neither of those things are bigotry.
Hard pass on "befriending the KKK"
And this right here is why anyone remotely on the left should be pushing back against this "tankie" nonsense, because if .ml gets defederated, dbzero will be the new tankies (even though it's an anarchist instance lmao) and if they get defederated, who knows, maybe it'll be .ee next, and so on until you can't say, "I'm voting democrat, but it kinda seems like Biden's in poor health" without getting called a tankie (though I'm pretty sure that already happened lol).
We're basically the tanks (lmao) pulling aggro away from more moderate leftists.
...Which protects the rights of marginalized people such as trans people even especially when those rights are under attack, right?
Unless you wanna play the, “Saying Palestinians should have rights is antisemitic” card or something similar.
Bigotry gets you banned from Hexbear fast.
Unless you wanna play the, "Saying Palestinians should have rights is antisemitic" card or something similar.
I heard that some people drink so much of that crap that literally more than 50% of their body is made up of water. I don't even know how it's possible to still be alive at that point, I mean, JFC it's like you're not even a solid at that point, you're just gonna dissolve into a puddle. Like, get help.
Funny, I would've thought "the worst part of the worst periods of 4chan" would be all the bigotry, racism, transphobia, and that sort of thing.
And to think, there are people around here who accuse me of not being a "real" leftist. Who but a leftist would post a page from from a webcomic that's 90% text? Checkmate libs.
Oh, ok, so tell me, what's your vision for Syria, exactly? Have Turkey and Israel annex the whole thing? Or maybe create a power vacuum in ISIS's backyard? Practically speaking, one of those two assholes was going to end up in power, and if they didn't, the situation was going to be even worse.
Your argument would be a lot stronger if our side was the one calling for active support of one side. You've got it completely backwards. My alleged "support" for Assad was always just, "I don't think either side is worth supporting, so we should leave them alone." Which is, you know, the proper "null" position when looking at any conflict. But the "null" position of anti-tankies seems to be, "Whatever the news says." So rather than neutrality being the zero point, it's seen as "supporting" the opposing side. So much so that you don't even seem to realize how much your argument is shooting yourself in the foot.
Your side, the side that labels us as "tankies" and "Assadists" and so on and so forth every time we advocate non-interventionism, is the side that "defends one asshole because you like the other less." In virtually every foreign policy debate, it's not between which of two sides should be supported, it's between supporting one side or not supporting either. If you want to convince me to adopt a position of interventionism when both sides are flawed, then you need to argue the exact opposite of what you just said.