For most Jews, their relationship with Israel has only been strengthened since Oct 7, 2023.

Wow. I don't even know where to begin with this. You do realize how bigoted this is, don't you? You're basically saying, "I can totally understand why people have a problem with Jews because of the behavior of some extremist right wing Jews." You might want to take a step back and think about that.

Holding all Jews responsible for what happens in Israel, let alone what a particular Israeli government does, is antisemitic. And no, it's not our fault. It's the fault of the antisemites. Our very long history is full of antisemites gaslighting us and blaming us for our persecution. Jews killed Jesus. Jews were behind the Black Plague. Jews are greedy capitalists. Jews are communists. Jews refused to accept Islam as the one true religion. Jews are trying to take over the Middle East. The Jewish state is racist and genocidal. The Jewish state loves to kill Palestinian children. See the pattern here?

The upside to Israel's actions over the past year is sending a clear message that the Jewish state isn't going anywhere, and if you try to kill us you will suffer greatly.

Thank you very much.

There is a significant chilling effect for sure. One example which might seem insignificant to others but makes the Jewish community very angry is how every single statement about antisemitism made by a public figure or organization has to have "and Islamophobia" added to it. It's as if people don't feel they can highlight Jewish suffering on its own because people will be offended. This would never be tolerated with any other group.

Oh my lord I'm so tired of this crap. I'm sick of anti-Zionist Jews who tokenize themselves when they represent a small fringe minority of the Jewish community. I'm tired of these Jews saying idiotic things like, "I've never experienced antisemitism, so it must be blown out of proportion."

And I'm sick of people falling back on the "criticism of Israel isn't antisemitism" bullshit. The angry mobs on our streets and university campuses aren't "criticizing Israel." Calling for intifada is not criticizing Israel. Calling for the destruction of Israel is not criticizing Israel. Vandalizing businesses and Jewish buildings is not criticizing Israel. Telling Jews to go back to Poland is not criticizing Israel. Saying things like "Zionists aren't welcome here" is not criticizing Israel. Pressuring organizations to cancel Jewish film festivals or art shows is not criticizing Israel. Assaulting Jewish students on campus is not criticizing Israel. Etc, etc, etc.

Huh?

He claimed Israel "attacked the UN."

That's false, the Olmert proposal for example offered Abbas 95% of the occupied territories with a plan for territorial swaps. It's a difficult problem for sure, but not an impossible problem. This would have been sorted out a long time ago if one side wasn't driven by a genocidal narrative and holding on to a dream that if they just kill enough Israelis, they'll eventually pack up and leave.

Israel has not fucked up. The Netanyahu government has made some mistakes, but the point is the Netanyahu government is a product of decades of failed attempts at peace. What killed the peace process for most Israelis was the second intifada, which is what they got in return for Oslo and Camp David. The next nail in the coffin was the Gaza withdrawal, which put Hamas in control of Gaza and gave Israel 15 years of rockets and terror incursions. The final nail in the coffin for peace? Oct 7, 2023.

But this is modern history and you have to understand it within the broader context of Arab nationalism and Islamist expansionism, which is the source of the Palestinian narrative described above. That's why this conflict, out of all others, has persisted for so long and seems so intractable: because it all begins with the refusal to accept the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East.

LOL, I'm not the one who is confused about the history of the conflict. You're the one parroting Soviet antisemitic propaganda, which makes sense given your username. Is Lemmyworld just a hangout for Marxists?

I'm Canadian.

A single campaign? It's a war in a small, densely populated urban environment. If any other country executed this war, the death toll would be 10x higher. All the things you mentioned are horrible effects of war. That doesn't make it a genocide. It isn't even close to a genocide. The best way to avoid those terrible effects of war is to not start war in the first place by, for example, invading a sovereign nation and undertaking an orgiastic barbaric murder spree.

Keep quoting Al Jazeera, terror-supporting asshole.

Nice Holocaust inversion, idiot.

Yes.

That's the definition of a genocide. The evidence has to support the conclusion that Israel has demonstrated intent to destroy the Palestinian people, and the evidence clearly doesn't show that. Here are a few key data points:

1. Even if we take the estimated death toll at face value, every military expert who has looked at the numbers has concluded that the civilian-to-combatant ratio is among the lowest (and possibly THE lowest) in the history of urban warfare. This suggests that the IDF has actually done a very good job of minimizing civilian casualties.
2. Even if we take the estimated death toll at face value, it represents maybe 1-2% of the entire Palestinian population. If Israel intended to destroy the Palestinian people, you would expect the death toll to be much higher.
3. The pace of civilian death slowed dramatically over the course of the war in Gaza as the IDF moved into different phases of the war. If Israel intended to destroy the Palestinian people, you would expect the pace of civilian death to remain constant and not diminish over time.

You don't have a grasp of the history. You make it sound like the Palestinians were actively working towards peace and only became radicalized 30 years ago, which is simply untrue. The Palestinians have been radicalized since Arafat became Chairman of the PLO in the 1960's. The PLO carried out their first terror attack years before the 1967 war, before Israel even came to occupy Gaza and the WB. The 1948 war was literally a war of annihilation carried out by several Arab countries (and thankfully they lost).

Even Arafat's supporters blame him for walking away from the negotiating table at Camp David. Peace was in sight and he rejected it. Abbas was offered almost everything in 2008 and again they rejected it. Do you know why? Because they have never been interested in peaceful coexistence with Israel. Never. They have rejected every partition plan and every peace deal because nothing less than all of it is acceptable to them.

Have you not been following the news on this? There is an actual definition of genocide in international law. "The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part. "

South Africa will not be able to make their case, which is probably why they asked for an extension on the date to provide evidence. No rational person can conclude from the facts that Israel has demonstrated the intent to destroy the Palestinian people, in whole or in part.

You do realize this conflict predates the settlements, don't you? By about 50 years. The settlements certainly don't help the situation, but they are nowhere near a significant root cause of the conflict.

I joined 11 days ago to engage in discussions about a topic that is of concern to me. I can see that I will have to lower my expectations.

Do you know how many civilians died in WWII protecting the world from the Nazis and Imperial Japan?

And no, Israel is not committing a genocide. Claiming "40,000 dead civilians" doesn't define a genocide. Besides, a large proportion of those "civilians" were actually Hamas fighters.

It's frightening how many people just soak up terrorist propaganda. What are you going to bring up next? The alleged hospital bombing? The fake famine? The so-called "Flour Massacre?"

I'm getting that sense...