Lemmy is not immune to trolls, bad fait actors or propaganda - in fact, despite how bad reddit is, a lot of Lemmy instances are worse

Lemmy (and reddit to a degree) is not like other social networks where you are lumped into one giant community. It's many communities, and you'll find that you are welcome in some and not welcome in others. That includes your politics and your views.

I don't think I'd be very welcome in a community of conspiracy nuts, especially when I counter everything they say. I think they would remove me from that community at some point, and that's okay, self policing of communities is okay. Sometimes you aren't welcome.

Is this an unpopular opinion? My block list on Lemmy is like 4 times bigger than it was on Reddit.

Hold up... If this is your one and only Lemmy account, and it's banned... How are you making this post?

According to the modlogs: the only action ever taken against you by a mod or admin was having a single post removed. I don't agree with the reason that it broke rule 1 though... I don't agree with what you said because it's misinformed, but what you said was not racist.

So you're lying either about not having other accounts and evading a ban, or about how you've been banned or how often you've had content removed.

Here are some small pieces of advice for you, and anyone else who is interested:

• Block Lemmygrad.ml, because fascists.
• Block Lemmy.ml, because admins are fascists.
• Block Hexbear.net, because fascists and trolls.
• Block any user from Lemmygrad.ml, Hexbear.net, and the usual suspects from Lemmy.ml.

That's it. 90% of toxicity is no more.

There is one MAJOR difference: here you can make not only your own sub/community, where you can be your own mod, but you can spin up your own whole entire instance, and become your own admin. Oh Reddit, you serve The Man (spez) or you can GTFO - so we did the latter:-P (some perhaps due to being kicked out of their former mod role bc of the protests) - but here, nobody can tell us what to do, in the end.

Ofc there are limits even there, like someone can defederate from you if you refuse to control yourself, even unintentionally like if you don't follow basic security and constantly get hacked.

It's like being able to own your own home. When you visit a community on someone else's instance, you are their GUEST, and you have to follow THEIR rules. The homeowner owns the community while the mayor or governor or President or Prime Minister or whatever controls the entire city / state / country or in this case "instance". Right or wrong, it's THEIRS, so your options are limited - you don't get to just walk into someone else's HOME and tell them what to do!?

But here, unlike Reddit, on your own personal computer (desktop machine even, doesn't need a whole "server") you can make your own place. From there, you could invite others... or not, as you choose. Inside your own home, unless you do something that may cause the police (like FBI) to come knocking, you control yourself, and also you have the responsibility and right to kick off anyone you choose who refuses to play by the rules that YOU set forth.

So do whatever you want. Ofc others have the same freedom too.

Oh, Lemmy is much worse in this regard. There are a lot of "normal" discussions on reddit, with a lot of "normal" users participating in them. Here the ratio of extremists is much higher.

This really isn’t unpopular. If anything I would say this is the more popular opinion

I agree, it is impossible to hold a contrarian view in a lot of subs. The mods and the user base on Lemmy have a very narrow range of their views than the spectrum that you find on Reddit. It is basically an echo chamber in a lot of subs.

The active user base is also soo much smaller that a handful of posters can be seen in certain subs. I see the same people posting over and over at a much higher rate than I saw on Reddit.

You’re spot on correct. Lemmy has become a safe-haven for both tankies, and right-with trolls disguising themselves as tankies. And if you find yourself responding to some of their propaganda in the wrong community/instance…. It’s an insta-ban. No questions asked or answered. No appeal.

It’s as bad if not worse than Reddit, but there’s not as many bots here. So… it’s a 50/50.

What lemmy has going for it, is that it’s new. I consider it to be in the formative rebellious phase and I hope things even out and the hive starts to become more reasonable. As things seem, it’s slowly happening as more and more of the kids that whine and complain about bOtH siDeS and gEnOciDe jOe are being downvoted a lot more.

So there’s hope.

And everyone says to just ban or block, but the problem is they're brainwashing people that don't know to look out for it They need to not exist; not for us to just hide from them.

Thank you for this post. It's become unbearable and I felt like I was in a tiny minority for feeling this way.

I get your frustration. I’ve seen a few of your posts around, and seen some people harp on you because of what they perceive to be your politics. I personally haven’t delved into your posting history, but (take this with a grain of salt) you may need to develop a thicker skin online.

People feel more empowered to say what they feel online - just like you’ve been doing. It’s easy and you are fairly shielded with your online identity. Mods and admins have this privilege as well, and fair or not, you do have to abide by their rules or leave.

Sometimes that’s a hard pill to swallow. Nobody likes to accept defeat; especially when they feel passionately about something.

Good luck with whichever direction turn you choose to go.

Block whole communities. That's what I started doing. There's one instance that I would like to block but that feature isn't available yet as far as I'm aware. Reddit was the same way around 10 years ago, it's been pruned and censored to the point where it's more appealing to the average worldwide user. I don't want that to happen to Lemmy; not to sound dismissive, but utilize your block list instead of calling for more/better mods.

While Reddit is mainstream, Lemmy is populated by the fringe. The mass exodus didn't occur by the mainstream, and people with moderate views. It was people with more extreme views from various fronts (privacy, anti-corporation, etc). If Lemmy's and Fediverse growth continues, it will too become mainstream thereby attracting people with mainstream, moderate views.

I don't think there is anything reddit could do to draw me back. It's digg all over again.

2 months ago I had my main Reddit account banned because I reported someone for inciting violence. They literally said word for word "they should just go into Gaza and kill them all, women, children, all deserve death after today." I reported him and went on about my day only to find that I was permanently banned from Reddit, no appeals work and this on r/WorldNews not some weird niche subreddit.

Every topic has an opinion where the majority of people share that opinion. If you go against that opinion on reddit, you go to a niche sub or accept being drowned out. Here, due to the smaller population, there isn't a viable way to maintain niche subs. That means we have to see each other's opinions, thus you see arguments from polar opposites... Echo chambers?

This is why you don’t keyboard warrior politics online. Unless you’re in your own echo chamber this is what happens. In the end no one has gained anything and no change has happened in the world whether you made your point or not or whether your take was removed or not. It’s all pointless.

Lemmy and reddit were always the same, it's the same people. Lemmy is arguably more free, but that could be for better or for worse.

Lemmy is reddit without the need to please advertisers, but it's all the same people

“Both sides” is a pretty gross over-simplification of the Human Condition.

It’s made of the same people. Same jackasses, same dipshits, same echo chamber circlejerkers.

lemmy.ml isn’t the entire fediverse, but it does account for most of the silliness that I find.

I started paying attention to usernames and noticed that there are only ever 3 or 4 accounts carrying on in the comments about anything, they just go at it like it's their job.

Just go to kbin, and you will never know when you are blocked.

Yep, Lemmy is very un-diverse in its struggle to embrace diversity.

Because the community on Lemmy is so much smaller it's a lot easier for small groups of dedicated posters to dominate discussions on certain topics.

I've noticed a lot of the same behaviour as you have on certain topics. Unfortunately it's difficult because like you say engaging on those topics is frustrating because the people with an agenda have more time and energy than you to dedicate to pushing their narrative, and aren't open to more nuanced discussion.

There's an interesting blog I think about regularly about online communities that I think you might find interesting: https://eev.ee/blog/2016/07/22/on-a-technicality/

Now that article calls for banning of assholes. I don't think that'll work on lemmy, so instead I propose this: If you just accept that those people are going to continue to do their thing and instead engage in the more positive parts of Lemmy then overall we might be able to build a bigger community of people who add positively to Lemmy. If you or others who are being pushed away leave then the asshole : positive people ratio will only get worse.

Lemmy is getting bad FAST with virtue signaling in particular. It's like the worst of the worst when it comes to things like that left Reddit and came here. So much tiny little bullshit gets twisted in to what a horrible a disgusting person you are and blah blah blah.

I really do like this alternative but... It's turning pretty fucking toxic fast. I'm scared what road it's going down.

At least your comment won't be hidden because it has many downvotes.

Sometimes it does feel like Reddit circa 2005 when beatwomen subs were casually accepted

that hexbear place..... Wow.

I’ve had people selectively ignore my comments and accuse me of things which I never said, and I’ve had people ignore valid criticisms and keep attacking me.

Thats basic internet bad faith arguing 101.

Don't argue what the person said, argue what you imagine the person said.

its quite popular.

I think something one might learn over time from different sites styled like reddit and lemmy is that they are not monoliths,

There is a comment above that says the same thing, but in practice, think about it like, any give post attracts both people that agree, and disagree with it, generally strongly. The vast majority don't engage with it.

Because of this the opinions seem both stronger, and more common. But realize that any given comment thread is a microscopic percent of even the highly active users, and always a biased sample.

With regards to echo chambers, this is why I personally oppose blocklists or how on reddit you can make something 'private'. Pretending something that is problematic doesn't exist does nothing to deal with the problem. I see this as fundamentally how r/TheDonald came to be, and reedit was fundamental in building the modern white nationalist movement. Through blocking and going private, r/TheDonald shielded itself from outside criticism, so that users didn't see alternative view points, and specifically, were protected from open mockery. Originally the sub started as a troll/ joke but quickly became the defacto headquarters of the largest funnel for white nationalism the internet has ever seen. It might seem a bit over the top, but I argue that Trumps 2016 success would not have happened with out specifically r/TheDonald. Its why all of the 'truth social' and extended media took on a reddit style interactivity. It was the birthplace of the MAGA movement online. They morphed it into a self referential echo chamber, and used purity testing to filter out potential critics. Eventually it was banned entirely, but not until long after the damage was done.

So I don't agree that ideas should be shielded from criticism. The problem with that is without criticisms, they can take hold, and grow legs of their own. But at the same time, you shouldn't make too much of things when you see a strong binary online, because almost any internet discussion will be inherently polar (because only those who agree disagree with a principal or idea will be drawn to discuss it; 95% of everyone else just doesnt care).

I just got banned from blahaj for suggesting we should show understanding to rightwing people, because they view the left in the same way as we view them. It creates more division for no reason other than being unwilling to communicate.

Reason: Bigot

¯(ツ)/¯

Shout outs to all my homies in; l/ithinkbikesarenifty and all the losers in l/carssuck. I miss chatting will each and every one of you…

I think this is the new normal bud, at least here in America (god bless)… the Age of Enlightenment has passed. Find your corner and tune up your yelling voice.

Thing is, I don’t think anybody ever actually wants discussion or debate, we just all want to win our share of arguments. Sometimes with good open debate minds accidentally get changed, but that’s not what we show up for, more of a happy accident.

You're going to find that true almost anywhere online nowadays. I got sick on my birthday last year, and i posted on facebook that I hated being sick on my birthday. So facebook banned me for posting "hate speech." (I'm not even kidding).

And I got banned from Reddit for suggesting that younger generations are more progressive in their views. THAT was apparently the wrong thing to say. I'm not sure why it was so controversial - but it sure pressed someone's button.

I'm a bad fiat actor myself. Nobody believes in my authority. Really though, this is always the same story. "They're all trolls and moderation should be stricter. Also stop using moderation actions against me." Yeah sure boss.

thank you, at least someone is saying it.

I'm mostly here because I think social media shouldn't be owned by a corpo.

I have no illusions as to the quality of the people or discussion I end up engaging with.

Being able to let strangers be wrong on the Internet and let it go is just what is required of us if you want to preserve your sanity while keeping an Internet presence.

The unfed troll dies.

I don't understand the lemmy but it seems like a big problem with social media platforms are them seemingly acting as a natural monopoly.

Once people are on a specific platform and posting, then even if the platform falls behind or the individuals in power start acting in egregious ways the inertia is enough to keep them going for a very, very long time as the shock of leaving the platform costs an individual user far more than putting up with the stale progress and bad behavior.

Having the 'content' detached and free, accessible to all would seemingly solve this issue. AFAIK lemmy still keeps content proprietary? Just on a decentralized system. Maybe the next step is mandating module[?] transparency for incorporation into the federation.

Or I could be completely wrong and this already happens?

one of the reasons i dont use lemmy all the time tbh. i changed instances like 3 times cause of random disappearances and defederation. the mod situation is far worse here than on reddit because you have like 3 different groups of people who can remove your post.

I think it's less that some instances are worse and more that people have consolidated into a few instances and turned eviler.

This is a popular opinion, but only because most Lemmy users think this post isn't about them.

That "let's talk about politics" always gets bad and become food for trolls. You can't expect to get treat well. The only thing you can do is to follow every trend and vote down the few others. Perhaps that helps to feel a little bit better over the day? Ok this may be negative.

Positive are groups about special interests eg Emacs. This are more hidden pearls with no trolling and banning. Perhaps if an aggressive Vim-User comes around? I don't know. 😆

Blocking makes it better here. After 6 weeks blocking every day a lot, it's nice here now. Would be nice a user could block hole instances. Or blocking with filters. Eg Musk or some flags. What ever you want.

I'm guessing this ban was on lemmy.ml? They'll ban you for not sucking Xi Jinping's peepee enthusiastially enough.

Mastodon's got some professional machiavellian gaslighters on it, I promise you.

Until some Fediverse portion grows spine-enough, and methodical-systematic-process-enough, to mitigate the malevolent, then they always will win.

That's how Natural Selection works.

That's why most natural/wild mammals are filled with parasites & things, in their "utopian heaven".

We do have the potential to do better, but it requires a bedrock of spine & uprightness, of carefully blocking malevolence, & not-permitting it to own/torque our world.

I'll not "hold my breath" waiting for it.

Considered-reason's the toughest position to hold-onto, as ALL ideology/prejudice wants it obliterated, left & right, theist-religion-ideologies & anti-theist-ideologies, ALL want their ideological/prejudice supremacism.

The Great Filter, it is called: a world-species reaches adult-technology while still fundamentally unconscious-mind toddler.

Consequences are .. "expressed"/enforced.

People that come here are malcontents pretty much by definition. And boy does it show.

Bye Felicia.

I don't think it's worse, but that's only because, as far as responses from trolls and bad faith actors go, I'd rather get screeds from lunatic extremists than pseudo-leftist establishment dogma boiled down to little pieces of emotive rhetoric that are just mindlessly regurgitated over and over by bots and humans-who-might-as-well-be-bots.