Admin update - Hexbear Defederated

I really really really dislike how fast so many people here are to discount their members and clamor for defederation. Queer solidarity, Trans solidarity, and Left solidarity is important. The people from hexbear aren't an "other" we're all in the same boat, it just happens that people from hexbear tend to be more jaded with the systems that a lot of us are slaves to in the west and in first world countries. Every single one of us is one little disillusionment away from holding the same or similar views as any person from hexbear, (I was already moving in that direction and have already made my own account there, though I started my lemmy usage here on Blahaj.)

Can they be a little overwhelming? Sure. But again, their users trend towards individuals fed up with the systems in place and are past the point of engaging in ways that look "respectable" or in their words, "liberal."

Edit: It's also kinda insane how they're being treated by certain mods even when they argue in good faith. image

I'm super disappointed in the reaction of a lot of blahaj users to hexbear. Sure they were out of line in the initial post in Blahaj Lemmy Meta but they have breathed new life into to fediverse left (if you don't like the left, what the heck are you doing on a queer instance). They are also significantly queer in numbers and have done a lot of work in terms of their rules and Lemmy customization (like forcing pronouns on all display names) to make their instance as LGBT friendly as possible. The rest of the fediverse could stand to learn a thing or two from that.

They have the potential to be our good friends as we all face the same oppression and share in the same struggles. How about we take a step towards queer unity and left unity in the Lemmy fediverse and not be so trigger-happy with the defederation.

I think not much value would be lost by defederating.

They are denying genocides, they are supporting regimes which are not compatible with LGBT+, they don't discuss in good faith, there is a lot of whataboutism. They want to dunk people and be right and not have their view challenged.

Unfortunately they have so radical ideas about it all (mostly US centric whataboutism as far as I can tell). They fall into fascist/authoritarian traps where they can't even recognize they are fighting against people like me or us. They dehumanize people.

I don't think their views are compatible with LGBT+ spaces and values even though they claim to be one while cheering for the people who would remove them from existence the first chance they would get.

Some people are moderate over there and that were the only pleasant interactions I had with them. I can't tell if the radicals are a loud minority or the majority. They poison the well though.

Even after all that said I don't know if defederation is the right choice. I mean they provide some good content and in the end they are a big community. On the other hand I have already blocked the instance using the Connect app and my experience improved a lot.

I think in summary they create a hostile space for all people. Even left leaning people are not safe due to their radicalized views and it is exhausting to have every thread derailed with some unrelated rant by them.

I have been watching my love tie herself in knots over the last several days, having to deal with the drama that has been brought on, trying her best to bring everyone back together.

There's been bad behaviour from both sides, and I'm really disappointed to see that some of the worst of it came from our users, who didn't keep to the moral high ground, disregarded our instance rules and stoopped to levels of behaviour worse than that leveled against them.

There have been accusations against us (or Ada specifically) that we are a safe harbour for bad behaviour and cause harm to trans people through our inaction.

This is perhaps the cruelest accusation they could have leveled at Ada, as she works tirelessly to maintain a safe space for our community, and while I was hoping, for all the effort that she was investing into this issue, that she could make it work despite my own reservations, this last attack on her impeccable morality has made me very angry.

I'm sorry for those that wanted to remain federated, sorry that it came to this, but I am glad it's over now, purely for the mental health of my precious beloved.

Personally I don't agree with the decision to stay federated with them given the kind of community they foster. A great example is that the top post on the thread where they announced the rules change that was enough to remain federated a little longer is straight up abuser language.

I'd recommend checking out the thread and sorting by top to see what the most popular sentiments among the users over there is in regards to other instances.

Don't participate, but it's fairly eye opening.

I do hope that when you run the poll you have a way of ensuring that only people in our community can vote on it because given that they have a community on their instance dedicated to dogpiling and brigading I don't trust them to not interfere with it.

I'm happy to remain federated; I think the communities, mods and the instance admins (thanks!) do a good job of curating the community, and by and large hexbear users interacting with us on this instance seem to do so in good faith.

That being said, I would make the observation that, from my perspective at least, there seem to be more than a few hexbear users that are apologists for authoritarian regimes. I want to preface this by saying that I am of an anarchist bent, so am not exactly enamoured with 'Western' political systems either, but this should not preclude criticism of (bringing up the most often contested examples) the USSR or China.

That being said, discussion of these things are important and differing views should be seen, as I have often found enlightening articles or overlooked areas of history through reading these kinds of discussion.

Bottom line: I would remain federated, but ensure we maintain the character of our instance.

I honestly think the hate toward hexbear is mostly manufactured. A lot of the people complaining are the same ones erroneously comparing them to places like exploding heads, claiming they're nazi trolls, that they go on downvoting raids (they can't even downvote btw), accusing them of terrible things, but then don't (or won't) provide any proof of them acting this way. And when people like me who aren't on hexbear question it, we get accused of being a "hexbear in disguise" and ignored. It all feels very dramatic and reddit, and I thought the point of lemmy was to not be like reddit. Defederating from problematic instances I get, but defederating because you hate tankies or because of a few bad members seems more of an 'echo chamber' choice than a 'keep the community safe' choice to me.

hexbear users are trying to stir so much shit, we're better off without them

I'm pretty new to this instance, having moved from .world recently. I haven't interacted with anyone from hexbear yet but I've seen some of their members behaviour on other instances and followed threads back to that instance.

They seem to have a self fulfilling persecution complex centred around their political opinions. I see them on their own instance saying things like 'any instance that doesn't believe the exact, very narrowly defined ideology that we do are stupid and they hate what we stand for', then they go onto the other instances and make even the most innocent posts that have nothing to do with politics into commentary on their ideology. It's like they can't see the world in any other way, or respect that others might. Then, when they get banned, they head back to their instance and say 'see? they're just intolerant boot lickers'. It often feels like they're trying to get banned, or their instance defederated simply so they can happily confirm to each other their belief that everyone is out to get them.

It can get pretty mentally exhausting seeing people say something utterly innocuous like 'I like chips' and then a bunch of hexbear users launch into a long winded political sub-thread on what a dick you are for liking NATO-loving, liberal, colonialist chips.

They are trans and lgbtq+ allies and that's a good thing. I'm just not sure that that one aspect of their makeup drowns out all the baggage that comes with it. I always feel it comes with conditions attached - we'll be your allies as long as we can flood your instance. I have no doubt that if this instance were to defed with them, their allyship would no longer extend to blahaj members.

It was inevitable after their atrocious behavior. It sounds horrible to be caught in such a crossfire as an instance admin. Especially because they used their queerness as a weapon to paint us as the bad ones for splitting the community. A painful reminder that not all queer people are necessarily good people.

Thank you for dealing with this situation and making this instance a safer place.

Hexbear is a bare-knuckle community that encourages group think and hair trigger mockery ("LIB!" and variations). In general, they bring that mentality wherever they go. It reminds me of the Goons from SomethingAwful in that way: you could spot a group of Goons regardless of the game, site, whatever.

Those communities can be fun (a supporters section at a football match, for example), but you have to go in ready to take a stray punch or two.

I have an account on another instance for when I want to be out in the world and suffer the slings and arrows and look at shitposts on !chapotraphouse. Sometimes I'm in the mood.

But I think part of the intended vibe of blahaj.zone is that it's somewhere that as highly marginalized people we can come and not expect to have slurs thrown around, 0-100 name calling criticism, etc.

The culture of hexbear is the opposite of that; it's not about not subscribing to !chapotraphouse, it's about how the instance approaches the whole idea of online interaction.

Lots of good points in this thread, but I'd like to offer that even if everyone on hexbear were terrible annoying people, I'm an adult who can block content for myself.

Defederating is good for when an instance is hosting illegal content and you need to keep it off our servers, or if an instance is spamming stuff with bots and abusing the fediverse, but when it comes to content I do or don't want to see, I want to make that decision myself.

Just want to throw some admin appreciation in here. Sudden drama like this taking off like a wildfire can be pretty difficult to handle (particularly in the face of brigading) and I appreciate y'all staying level headed and legitimately trying to foster broader trans community outside of our instance. It's an important niche and I'm glad to be a part of it.

EDIT: I think this is especially important to mention as the discourse has kind of soured from both sides. Sure it's understandable that tensions are running high but it's important to remember that there's real people on the other end of it, in some cases doing free labor for a community that they love.

Just purge it already.. There may be some decent people there, but it’s pretty clear that the instance as a whole glorifies reprehensible rhetoric and behavior. If they feel such a need to be a part of spaces here, then they can make an account here. Don’t poison the water hole to save a few drops.

I've seen a few people from there on here and my experiences have been nothing but pleasant.

On the other hand, the communities I've seen there seem almost troll like. Like the dumbest worst right-wing circlejerk except some insane left ideas and they hate on "liberals"? It's so confusing to me.

Definitely some very cool people are from there though, from what I see here. I am conflicted. I don't want the shitshow some of their communities starting over here.

I get that people aren't a fan of their type of leftist politics but I don't think they really do that much harm. I at least haven't seen any brigading or vitriol from them and I think they're valuable as a trans-positive space.

They are literally spamming duplicate "fuck democracy" posts in a thread about community feedback, you can't make this shit up. And as a cherry on top it has some fucking untagged gore that straight up loads as a thumbnail for me without clicking.

How about you start setting some actual standards for behaviour around here and actually keep things safe for folks Ada? Carrying water for the tankies like this must be exhausting. A person's/communities transness doesn't excuse or offset their shitty behaviour.

EDIT: oh cool it looks like those posts got deleted, thank you. I think them being here caused my original post to come out more aggro so apologies. The rest of it stands though.

Yeah this is tough. I posted a comment in the original thread and had a really great interaction with someone explaining their thoughts but also just troll comments. It felt like a representation of their whole community: a mix of really passionate people who want to spread a message and left-wing 4chan-esque belligerent trolls. I think that ideally they can let us know (not through their words, rather their actions) whether their community values discussion over "dunking". If the main point of their federation is only to find people to argue with, we should defederate. If they actually want to be involved in good faith interactions, we can individually block users or communities that push it too far.

[I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can't see this comment anymore]

Isn't the significant presence of hexbear folks here pretty solid evidence that their admins don't have good control over their users (or rather that they have no interest in following their own rules)? They were specifically told to stay out of metas for other instances.

I'm going to use my last post here before the vote to say, it was massively irresponsible to federate with these trolls before consulting with the community you administrate. I'm sure they spun you a good sob story but they've hurled abuse at your users that you're apparently happy to let go unanswered. And you say they deserve a second chance. Wait staff gets your order wrong? That deserves a second chance, restaurants are chaotic and shit happens. Person shows up to work late? So much shit happens in the Dat to day, you can't possibly plan for everything, absolutely give a second chance. A bunch of tankie trolls use your instance as their entertainment? Absolutely fucking not. You get a second chance for a mistake, not active malice. I'd buy into the "Trans solidarity" lie if they didn't admit in their own instance this was about "dunking on us". They're here to recruit and make fun, and they made no bones about it on their own server. Not to put too fine a point on it, you fell for the first nazi at the bar. For the tankies, I know you're not nazis, you just use the same style arguments and are equally as tolerant of people who dont share your beliefs.

Long story short, I could not give less of a shit what Hexbear does on their own server but they've been extremely detrimental to our own communities and that not being considered a factor at all is beyond absurd

As an admin you have a duty to those you administrate and you've essentially told them that the abuse they've suffered is inconsequential in the face of Trans solidarity The same Trans solidarity Hexbear uses to abuse your users, willfully and maliciously. That's not good enough for me.