8mo ago

I'm feeling physically ill after reading this article: America’s premier pronatalists on having ‘tons of kids’ to save the world

www.theguardian.com America’s premier pronatalists on having ‘tons of kids’ to save the world: ‘There are going to be countries of old people starving to death’

Elon Musk (father of 11) supports their cause. Thousands follow their ideology. Malcolm and Simone Collins are on a mission to make it easier for everyone to have multiple children. But are they really model parents?

America’s premier pronatalists on having ‘tons of kids’ to save the world: ‘There are going to be countries of old people starving to death’

I'm at a loss for words with this

SneerClub @awful.systems

Mike @awful.systems

8mo ago

America’s premier pronatalists on having ‘tons of kids’ to save the world: ‘There are going to be countries of old people starving to death’

www.theguardian.com /lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/25/american-pronatalists-malcolm-and-simone-collins

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66 comments

How have I never heard that Elon has 11 fucking kids? Every bourgeois "hero" pushing this movement deserves
.
If decreasing birth rates are scaring you so much for the future of humanity, as if you ever really gave a shit about it, then stop enslaving the working class to the point that they have no time or money for kids.
- Capitalists heighten contradictions. They don't solve them. Proletarianization destroys the productive basis for the nuclear family while the capitalist state upholds it as an institution. Only the socialist state can resolve this contradiction with socialized childcare & childrearing, children's autonomy, abolition of marriage, etc. (sorry USSR you didn't go far enough). The capitalist solution is reaction, a return to 19th century working conditions, family relations, and religiosity that saw high birth rates. Unfortunately that all existed within the context of things, so it's probably impossible to recreate at large scale.
- It's the definition of a non-problem. Oh no, there won't be enough children to care for you in your old age? So? Suffer and die like literally every other human ever. Manufacturing new people to drive you to dialysis is fucking weird. Just... acept your mortality with at least an iota of dignity.
  
  Actually if we rearranged our productive modes we could absolutely care for the elderly instead of abandoning people to die a la social murder

Save the world from what? Climate change? Even ol' Elon has jumped in on the climate change denial trend.
And why do I think every single one of them wants to sterilize anyone who isn't 100% white?
- They're worried about the non-whites
  
  Eugenics has always been about genocide against the other. I honestly think if birth control was only available for colored people then conservatives wouldn't have a problem with it. Abortion too. Liberals and even well meaning progressives will sometimes fall into the trap of pitching abortion and birth control as a part of the solution to poverty. Not realizing that they're actually saying the poors aren't allowed to have family.
  Edit: I don't like how I worded this but I'm also finding it hard to express what I've observed and the problems I've noticed with it. I'm very much for access to birth control and abortion for everyone. The issue I have is when people want to discourage people from having kids if they're not wealthy as a part of solving poverty. And somehow I get the feeling that the bar is often high for low income black and brown people. Like the aspiration towards progressivism is there but there's still some unchecked racism and classism leading towards support if eugenics. Not to mention I see a lot of support for out and proud eugenics against disabled people and neurodivergent people.
- Population collapse due to low birthrates is a much bigger risk to civilisation than global warming. (And I do think global warming is a major risk),

This is not Quiverfull, the fundamentalist Christian belief that large families are a blessing from God. The Collinses are atheists; they believe in science and data, studies and research. Their pronatalism is born from the hyper-rational effective altruism movement...
yeah ok there it is. technofascists, like the real ones.
- i can't wait for these two tentative allies to kill each other

The wall is too good for these freaks
- Oh no…that kid is gonna end up murdering his parents (good for him)

As of 2024, they have four children. They are, by order of birth: Octavian (son), Torsten (son), Titan Invictus (daughter), and Industry Americus (daughter).
The state of these poor kids, especially the state of the last two names
- they're objectifying their own children by seeing them as the means to fulfill some weird ideological goal. Reading their kids names definitely adds proof to that. Who names their child "Industry Americus"??? WTF? They sound like product releases from some weird Silicon Valley company.
- There was a set of kids in my school named Nation, Justice, and Allegiance. Thankfully 2 of them became lefties lmao.

I had thought the main thing that made it hard was that it’s now so incredibly expensive to raise children.
“No,” Malcolm says. “Not at all.”

Also, wasn't
into this shit, too?

CEOs and non-profit entrepreneur
so, they run a vulture capital enterprise that has a tax evasion subsidiary.
if they don't end up in prison for fraud, one of their kids is gonna shoot them with one of their mounted guns after seeing a sibling getting smacked one too many times.
- I thought you were just making a tangential Menendez brothers reference, but no they hit their kid in the face in the article

Malcolm and Simone Collins are some of the most moronic people alive. They're both failson inheritors of their parents' wealth and have "jobs" operating their own foundations or some shit. They are actual firm believers in Effective Altruism and nominative determinism, which is why all their kids have fucking stupid names. They're both actual redditors with full bazinga brain.
They genuinely believe their genetics are imperative to pass down because the ability to accumulate wealth is, as far as they're aware, genetic. Their genetics also gave both of them the smoothest brains ever recorded, I'm talking SI standard for frictionless surface.
The one benefit to their harebrained scheme to populate the world with billionaires is that all of their children will be failures from the get-go, having been raised by secular Calvinists, and with so many children their wealth will wither and vanish in a series of unsuccessful artists, honorary MBA entrepreneurships, and the hordes of by-the-hour lawyers each child will hire to wrest pennies from each other's inheritance.
- I mean shit, they have a point. Wealth is largely hereditary
  
  True, and having large amounts of heirs with no skills or education needs a term like "inheritance imbreeding" since they will end up diluting the wealth-gene pool until they are left with nothing and hopefully go extinct after all the wealth has been absorbed into the general population. Or more likely, absorbed by a grifter.
  
  These people think wealth is generic, which is why it's imperative to have as many kids as possible so they too can collect all the money and do a better effective Altruism at some point in the future. They're devour followers of that Big Yud school of thought
  
  True, and having large amounts of heirs with no skills or education needs a term like "inheritance imbreeding" since they will end up diluting the wealth-gene pool until they are left with nothing and hopefully go extinct after all the wealth has been absorbed into the general population. Or more likely, absorbed by a grifter.

wasn't an article on these people written in american media like nine months ago
EDIT: yeah it was a Chapo reading series in episode 682 Longpsermism from November 2022, so I was off by like a year
- I've definitely read about them before. I remember because they are impossibly repellent in every way
  
  They're some of the most emblematic, embarrassing examples of how with a certain amount of wealth you can't fail no matter how smooth brained you are
- The Yuddites/Effective Altruists/Quakers before the Basilisk/Friends of the Status Quo/Singularity Seekers are a popular topic of scorn here.one of many incredily weird terminally online subcultures we have extremely legitimate beef with.

The imminent arrival of their fourth child, a girl they plan to name Industry Americus Collins, turns out to be only the first in a string of surprises – and one really shocking thing – that I will encounter during my day with the pronatalists
I can’t read this. You can’t make me
- It's okay. You don't have to. There's no pssible advantage that could come from learning about new ways that Yuddites are being weird technofreaks.

Whoever convinced the idle rich to do the opposite of a single child policy to split their family fortune up is a pretty funny bit. A few generations and the rich will breed themselves down to middle class.
- You remind me of an interesting cultural habit in ancient Ireland, where they would shave off branching families, cutting them from the family name and inheritance to maintain large holdings within the main families.

Elon has 11 kids? wtf?
- afaik most of them dont even talk to him anymore.
  
  Good, I hope they all hate his guts forever.
- X Æ A-12
  
  If she, one day, redacts her progenitor, I consider it self defense.

birth rate is such a bad modifer though it's better late game to move on to women's suffrage laws for that +%workforce bonus while focusing on immigration to boost your population

The people that believe they have the greatest genetics in the world to carry the future human race have terrible eyesight and need glasses apparently.
Not that I'm against glasses or anything but you know it's clown shit when people that are naturally blind claim to have the best genetics.

My grandma had 9 kids and didn’t make being a parent her personality….

Those poor kids. At first I was laughing at these dumbasses but the end of the article feels like falling into a pit.

Lmao fucking freaks. They can do this shit all they want and the national birthrate will still trail behind Guatemala’s.
- Historically speaking high birthrate usually occur when there is low level of economic development, lack of access to medicine and education. Therefore those people are redundant because USA already work on all three for the people there.
  
  It occurs for peasant populations. Urban populations with low quality of life just drop birth rate even lower.

INDUSTRY

Giving your kid some kind of nerd ass Latin-sounding "power name" should result in you being forced to eat boiled shoelaces every day until you die

I hate people who conflate their hatred of children with antinatalism (and people who hate children in general), but I fear pronatalists
- These “pronatalists” also hate children. They are not seeing them as human beings but as political means to an end. It is gross.
  
  That's true aswell, I wish no child is born without loving parents
  My problem is with adults who hate children no matter the situation
  If you hate taking responsibilty of kids, use contraceptives
  If you hate that, don't have sex
  If all that fails, you were too horny and now you are responsible of a human being
  No matter how you arrive at parenthood, the kid is innocent and you are 100% responsible barring SA

I propose a moratorium on KKKrackers reproducing until we find out what the hell is going on.

66 comments