1y ago

Trump Attorney Tells Judges Presidential Immunity Would Even Cover Assassinating Rivals, Selling Pardons

themessenger.com Trump Attorney Tells Judges Presidential Immunity Would Even Cover Assassinating Rivals, Selling Pardons

U.S. presidents cannot be prosecuted for selling pardons or assassinating political rivals through SEAL Team Six, personal Trump lawyer John Sauer argued Tuesday.

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1y ago

Trump attorney tells judges presidential immunity would even cover assassinating rivals, selling pardons

themessenger.com /politics/trump-presidential-immunity-appeals-court-oral-arguments-jack-smith

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Does Trump know this ruling could end with Biden legally ordering his assassination? His opponent is President right now.
- I think Trump's betting on the Supreme Court dragging their feet long enough to where Dark Brandon cannot Dark Brandon, but Trump can just assassinate anyone who says he can't be a 3rd term president.
- Oopsie!
  No oopsie here, it's double jeopardy after the GOP feigning victimhood for years on end. Play games, win prizes.
  
  To quote one of their favorite lines -
  Let's go, Brandon!
- Oh come on now, we all know full well that there is an asterisk somewhere. The fine print reads "Republican presidents only. These special rules don't apply to Democrats, they have harsher rules that aren't written we just call them like referees when we see them."
  
  I mean, and this is all alleged mind you, Biden could use the threat to American democracy to assassinate Trump and there are many people who would be okay with that since Trump IS a threat to democracy.
- I'm curious how that would affect his current ratings. Would they shoot up or would they go even deeper into the gutter?

Wow Biden should test that on trump, half of Congress, 2/3 of the supreme Court, and this lawyer. Today.
- Oh come on... you're leaving out Eric and Jnr? Thats just asking for a revenge plot reboot.
  
  Maybe that's what they want.
  
  Well, they would be "adversaries" too, so .........
  
  We're here for the stories not for the healthcare, apparently.
- Who needs a two-party system, when all you need is one. It’s working pretty well in China, Cuba and North Korea.
  /s just in case…

Sounds like they're telegraphing their plans for day one of Trump's next administration.
- When fascists say they're going to do something, it's probably a good idea to believe them. When they say they won't do something, they'll probably do that too.
  
  Don’t believe him; he’s telling the truth

MAGATS in 2016: "LMAO you're such an over-reacting cry baby, its not like trump is actually a dictator or anything."
MAGATS in 2023: "Trump has the right to assassinate his political rivals without consequence."

Do they understand that the President isn't a King?
- isnt it weird that trumps lawyers are going along with this...?? like i get that trump is a whacked out of his brain narcissist, but those lawyers have to go home and explain to their spouses that they just argued for King Trump being able to kill people. wtf
  
  It gets better, they get to go home and explain why they werent paid to argue that he can kill people :D
  
  They're married to other maga types.
  
  I believe these lawyers do it as a show for their potential mob clients. They want to demonstrate that they are loyal to the client not the court, will employ tricks like delay tactics to turn the court in their favor, maximizing the pressure for the opponent to drop the case due to costs mounted by this waste of time at court, etc.
  
  Counterpoint: Clearance Thomas's wife
  
  isnt it weird that trumps lawyers are going along with this...??
  The only lawyers he can get are the ones stupid enough to work for Trump. Competent lawyers would require payment and for Trump to follow basic instructions like "don't threaten witnesses, the judge, or opposing council."
  This doesn't surprise me at all.
  
  Criminals tend to use lawyers that skirt the laws a lot. E.g. like in Breaking Bad.
- When Trump was president, he made it well known he was jealous of kings/dictators/autocrats and how they don't need to fuss around too much with pesky concepts like democracy and separation of State powers.
- They want us to believe that he’s infallible… like some kind of deity or messiah it’s just so fucking laughable. He doesn’t even try to argue his innocence anymore
  
  No Messiah of mine shits their pants on the set of a reality TV show.
- Most of them don't understand anything. They are just rooting for their team repeating what they think sounds smart.
  A few of them know that a president isn't a king. But they don't want a president. They want a king. And they don't care how many people that hurts. As long as it makes them more powerful in the process. These are the guys that are feeding the "smart" sounding lines to the majority who are just supporting the team.
  
  They do care how many people it hurts. They just want the "right" people to get hurt. Be wary, Americans.

So Biden could order SEAL Team 6 to assassinate Trump and Biden wouldn't be convicted?
- Biden should order Seal Team 6 to perform a mock execution on Trump to prove a point. Drastic yes but Trump would actually do it.
- If you believe Trump, yes.
  So in reality, no, not in any sense.
- I personally propose that Harris initiate the slayings. Just to spice it all up a little bit.
- I mean, I bet he could. Im glad he doesnt, but your presidential executive model of democracy seems to be more prone to presidential dictatorships than some of the other legislative models.
- "Are you guys arguing that Biden could legally assassinate Trump's lawyers, and not be prosecuted?"

U.S. presidents cannot be prosecuted for selling pardons or assassinating political rivals through SEAL Team Six
If that's true, we should do something about it.
- "Unless they’re impeached and convicted by the Senate."
  Bc they know even Dems would convict Joe for murder but they would never do it to one of their own.
  GOP is going to coup the shit out of us in the near future.
  
  the point they’re trying to make here is that, because Trump was acquitted by the Senate, this prosecution would amount to double jeopardy.
- If I recall correctly, this would be an illegal order in violation of the Title 10 authorities which govern DoD activities if it took place within the borders of the country. I'm not a federal lawyer so I don't know the details, but I believe it prohibits the armed forces operating under Title 10 from performing operations on U.S. soil. Title 18 however governs agencies like the FBI and allows operations within U.S. borders but prohibits foreign operations.
  This is all a vague memory from an old lesson, but at first glance the attorney's argument is utter crap. It boils down to "no act of the president can be considered in violation of any law." Not a comforting sentiment, and a dangerous precedent.
  
  The CIA and or the NSA would do it in a heartbeat.
- Let them assassinate Trump, that is?

“Could a president order SEAL Team Six to assassinate a political rival? That’s an official act–an order to Seal Team Six,” U.S. Circuit Judge Florence Pan asked Sauer.
“He would have to be, and would speedily be, you know, impeached and convicted before the criminal prosecution,” Sauer replied, setting a pre-condition for such prosecution in Pan’s hypothetical.
I wonder if that's true. Would a congress controlled by the Republican party of today really follow through with impeachment for that? I'm sure such a president would have all kinds of excuses as to why they had to do it and how their rival was a threat to national security etc etc that their followers would take at face value.
- Well, just kill the representatives and senators that won't fall in line. According to Trump, it's legal
  
  Preemptively
- “He would have to be, and would speedily be, you know, impeached and convicted before the criminal prosecution,” Sauer replied, setting a pre-condition for such prosecution in Pan’s hypothetical.
  Meanwhile, Republicans didn't impeach him because "the courts should decide."
  They're trying to create Schrodinger's Dictator.
- they wouldn't.
  And he knows it.
- I don’t think any party would do it. To go further, why would any of them? When the votes become public knowledge from congress to impeach, what’s to stop the president ordering anyone who said yes from assassinating them before the senate goes for conviction?
  Either the president scares the senate away (in case they don’t convict and the president will know who said yes) or he goes to jail/is executed no matter how many they had killed.
  Even kill anyone you know will say yes before they vote to impeach. IMMUNITY!

It's the hand these lawyers have been dealt to try to make this argument fly. They are duty bound to provide the best representation they can for their client, and if somehow this completely bonkers argument wins the day, I think that's pretty much it for American democracy.
Or Biden has all this on standby just in case...
- my favorite business teacher once told me almost no one has to do anything. we just need to accept the consequences of those actions... breathe/dont breathe.. steal/dont steal.
  no one is holding a gun to these lawyers heads, are they? these arent 'public defenders' answering the call of their duty. these are private, douchebag lawyers who have chosen to be douchebags.... correct me if im wrong.
  
  Yeah, they can drop the client if they wanted to. And they probably should, they arent gonna get paid either way.
  
  Same kind of thing was said by my Life Skills teacher in high school.
  "The only thing you HAVE to do in life is die."
- It's a precedent for presidents.

You guys are describing the Presidency or a Mafia ring?
- a dictatorship
  
  Oh, that's a given.

If you are a history buff, read up on the aventine secession on Wikipedia.
The TL;DR is that in 1924 Giacomo Matteotti, a member of the house of representative who was outspoken against Mussolini, was killed and no charges were brought forward. That even is what transition Italy from a semi-working democracy to a one-party dictatorship.
- He was littered‽
  
  I really hope thats a typo and not some new tik tok shit like unalive
  
  I use swipe on my keyboard. It's possible they do too and they meant to type murdered. The letters are pretty close.

There were some very questionable pardons - where is that investigation?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donald_Trump
the vast majority were to persons to whom Trump had a personal or political connection, or persons for whom executive clemency served a political goal.[2][3][5] A significant number had been convicted of fraud or public corruption.[6] The New York Times reported that during the closing days of the Trump presidency, individuals with access to the administration, such as former administration officials, were soliciting fees to lobby for presidential pardons
Huh, he posthumously pardoned Susan B Anthony? I’ll give Trump credit for that.
- I don't know if Susan b Anthony would be happy about being pardoned, let alone by him.
  also:
  "Soliciting fees to lobby" is some super human level mental gymnastics. It's called bribery.

Works for Russia. Window sales going to see a surge if Trump gets elected.

I guess in his mind we should be grateful he didn't assassinate any rivals?

Trump isnt saying these things because he believes it. He’s saying these things because he wants his fans to believe him.
Last time he promoted J6. Now he’s promoting assassination.

Remember that guy Obama killed with a drone? After they put Trump in the Bigly House maybe they should look into that...
- which one? drone strikes were a big thing under the obama administration. It was targeting combatants in Afghanistan, ordinarily though. I don't recall a Reaper taking out a political rival of his.
  
  There was at least one that targeted an American born citizen who had defected to some terror organization. US law MIGHT argue he should have been arrested and tried unless he was engaging in active combat at the time. I'm not a lawyer. I just know there were some gray areas with drone use.
- that was right after that guy that we let invade a whole country for fake reasons, right? whatever happened to that guy
  
  He was the decider, and he decided he should have a happy retirement on his ranch.
- The fact that you assume this would be a shocking or objectionable suggestion speaks volumes.

90 comments