Police investigate virtual sex assault on girl's avatar

I can't make up my mind on this one. On one hand we probably should make some rules etiquette and laws regarding VR, but on the other hand I made it through the Halo series just fine and was able to separate myself from what those people did to my corpse.
- So...many...teabags
- I would classify this as sexual harassment. It's no different from being sent obscene videos over email. The gravity resides in that they're sexual assault videos with the recipient being the victim.
  
  This situation reminds me of the deepfake porn issue that's been going around as well. Ofc there are differences, but mainly I mean the confusion around it of 'how he hell do we categorize this'. I don't know nearly enough to make a judgement here, but yours does sound reasonable imho.
  (People have been saying this website isn't super trustworthy, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Even if the story is fake - I'm not saying it is, for all I know it may be true, though I hope not - I imagine it's still worthy of discussion as something that could happen.)
  
  There're*
- Having been involved in something that was actually bad, I can say with certainty that there are enough rules already (in most places) that apply to these sorts of situations. Harassment and stalking crimes cover the sorts of things that need to be handled by police. If someone teabags you in Halo, or curses at you or says disgusting things in a voice chat, you either block them or shake your head and move on. If they follow you around through multiple lobbies, send/spam pictures or post/spray real pictures of genitalia (in places where it is not supposed to be, such as your inbox/cellphone/vr lobbies, obviously not talking about nsfw sites), those things are already crimes covered by harassment/stalking/sexting crimes.
  There may be a few edge cases where someone can skirt the laws, but again, in my experience, the statutes are broad enough to catch almost everything you could imagine and want to be a crime.
  
  Totally agree with you! If we are talking laws, it needs to be covered by general laws. Hopefully it already is wherever ppl are. It makes no sense to create specific laws for online games and VR games. Otherwise the next new tech needs its special law again, and the making of law is always late.
  If we are talking etiquette, Netiquette exists.
  
  Let me guess: cis-het white dude? Yeah. Tracks.
- crouch crouch crouch
  
  Dip dip potato chip
- It's a little silly at this stage, but I think there needs to be a legal framework around this thing now because eventually, our games will be realistic enough and immersive enough that this could become a serious issue.
  
  You're joking right? Read about Ellen Page and the Beyond:Two Souls controversy.
  Shit's already here. It's not just a little silly anymore. And with those AI deep fakes floating around, anyone can become a pornstar without even knowing about it.
  People already killing themselves for fake rape allegations and social media pariah-ism, what now that fake porn with you in it can be made at any time?
  This shit's a disaster in the making, not just a little silly.
  
  Image being on trial for playing Rimworld.
  
  Absolutely not! That’s absurd. You can’t virtually rape someone or virtually assault someone. You can always just look away, remove the headset, or turn off the pc. You can always instantly remove yourself from the situation. You are never in a position of danger. You are never in any way being harmed. The police should arrest the person that called them for wasting their time.
  
  I think they need to go outside.

It sounds ridiculous that they assaulted an avatar. I think it is the wrong take. The avatar is just the medium. The target was obviously the person behind the avatar. It's like saying that threats over text message is assaulting her phone.
- Ssssh it's okay iphone. Don't listen to them. I know you were just protecting me from the bullies in high school
- I didn't know how to feel about the headline when I read it, is it possible to do that? I still don't know. It's not really for me to decide how SHE feels either. It just sounds.... Weird? And not possible? I don't know.
  Regardless, in my mind, it depends on what the action was. If I send a text to your phone to hack it, then I guess I'm "assaulting your phone" but if the phone is the medium used to get to you then obviously it's towards you.
  And this can all be made moot by the software devs with an input box "keep non-friends N meters away". Its all tech and virtual. Whatever she has a problem with can be an option to toggle for her.
  
  Example from the article what it can look like:
  Recalling the experience, Ms Patel told the same programme that she was "surrounded by three to four male-sounding and male-representing avatars, who started sexually harassing me in a verbal sense and then sexually assaulting my avatar".
  She said they had used misogynistic language and "continued to touch my avatar in a way that can only be described as a sexual assault of my avatar".
  So, I guess the appropriate terminology would be sexual harassment of the person by virtual sexual assault on their avatar in the VR space, or something like that.
  I can imagine for an innocent person unprepared for it to be ganged and surrounded by deviants in VR sounds like it could be a proper traumatic experience. I don't think there should be downplaying or normalizing this kind of experience for the sole reason that pervs are to be expected online. There is no reason to sink expectations of society to the lowest uncommon deranged denominator.
- It can't be sexual assault.
  [Edit: Sexual] Assault is physical contact.
  
  No, that's battery.
  
  You're thinking of battery
  Downvoted for being right. Reddit 2.0

Maybe when an article says "The daily mail jas reported" we should completely ignore it until a better paper reports on it. Everything coming from the daily mail should be considered a lie.
- I missed the Daily Mail bit. Thank you for pointing it out.
- I guess you'd have a point if this didn't really happen.
  
  But the only evidence this did happen is from the Daily Mail so you can see the problem. It's like trusting Fox as a reliable news source

This is sexual harrassment, not assault. It's still disgusting, but there's no reasonable expectation of harm. They can always take off the headset.
- And yet it's completely possible to kill someone with cyber bullying. Trauma is trauma.
- Imagine if someone had killed them in a VR game
- It's entirely reasonable that a panicking and scared child might forget they can escape by removing their headset, or experience enough to end up traumatised before they've got it off - if they don't log out, too, they'll know people are still there doing things to a representation of themselves. There's still harm, even if the exact nature of the harm is different.
  
  Of course. It's still sexual harrassment!
  
  Sure. That's why the parent can look into what game they are purchasing, if it features multiplayer, if it connects you to voice chat, etc. And from that information they can make an informed decision - do I put my toddler in the VR headset so I can have some peace and quiet for the rest of the day, or do I maybe try to parent for a while longer?
  Here's a generous disclaimer: Don't leave your kids next to me in a game. I'll trick them into giving me their gear and then teach them the kind of new words that'll make you pretend you don't know them when they bring it up in public. You can do with that information what you will.
  
  VR isn't that believable yet. It's not the Sword Art Online

The amount of murder I have done in gaming. I'm going away for a long time boys💀

VR is immersive, but it isn't that immersive, especially when it comes to user feedback
- It's not objective, it's subjective. 100% of "immersion" is happening in your brain, where the signals received by your senses are being processed into experiences. Thus, different people will experience different levels of immersion, which is how things should be, instead of everyone being expected to try to feel the same as everyone else when faced with the same stimuli.
  Basically you're expressing an opinion. Which is fine, people can have those, but others can have other ones too. And that is also fine.
  
  We're talking about safe spaces again. Some people are hyper sensitive to things other people can tolerate just fine. It's tricky to protect those people without criminalising behaviours that are harmless in normal circumstances. Once you criminalise everything everyone can become a criminal.
  
  What I mean is there's nothing pushing or pulling at you, you can clip your hand into the other person (or mush it to a point where it's visually disconnected from where your arm is), you can easily remove yourself from the situation by logging off, taking the headset off, or both.
  
  I think that's fair, but I also think there's something clinically wrong with people who's reaction is anything but ripping off the headset when they feel violated
  And I mean that in the context that these people should be given therapy for free. That level of attachment to an avatar is not a trait of a healthy person
  To illustrate my point, there's people who described their gta5 characters being violated was like being raped... If you're being raped, and you could shut your eyes to make it stop, and you don't...
- If it got that good vr would be in every household. Can't wait to get a strangers finger up the bum.
  
  More than just a finger probably

[the victim] suffered psychological trauma "similar to that of someone who has been physically raped".
No she didn't. I'm sure it wasn't a pleasant experience, but let's not over exaggerate the situation.
- If it had been my avatar, I wonder if they'd be making that claim. As in, if it was literally the same avatar but I'd been wearing the headset.
- Yeah but wild we don't over exaggerate the situation, how will I get all the attention?
- I'm not so sure I agree with you. If I had a choice between getting raped IRL or Virtually, I would choose Virtually any day.
  But that doesn't mean you couldn't get PTSD or some other trauma from being virtually assaulted. As far as I know, the brain sees all trauma equality because brains are dumb like that. So I think it is possible the victim is experiencing similar trauma to being raped IRL.

We live in a clown world.
- No we don’t.
  Our world is complex and burying our heads in the sand about new frontiers of harassment does nothing good.
  
  What does nothing good is diminishing what sexual assault actually means.

Let's wait for the feel suits to arrive before equating virtual "crimes" to real ones, especially in a medium where you can just block anyone, at most this should go in the same place a death threat via text goes for now.
- Eh, I'd say death threats should be followed up on.
  'Virtual sexual harassment' should be followed up on if it involves threats of real crimes.
  Saying, "I'm gonna come to your house and rape you" is definitely cause for criminal investigation, if there's enough evidence to make it viable.
  Saying, "you like that, don't you?" while "fondling" an avatar in VR is not cause for criminal investigation.

Please don't kill people in Counter strike or they might get PTSD

The victim was in an online 'room' with a large number of fellow users when the virtual assault by several adult men took place.
Taken from the DailyMail. Neither article has details on which VR game/app she was, nor what kind of "assault" it was. The dailymail says it was "on the metaverse", but "metaverse" could be VRChat, Fortnite or fucking Second Life for all we know. Could've even been on fuckzuck's metaverse, Horizon Worlds, but isn't it the place where you don't have a bottom half and other avatars are forced to stay the equivalent of 1.5m away from you at all times?

the Daily Mail
Ah yes so file this under shit that never happened.
Assaulting someone in a VR game is still assault especially if they never consented.
- 'Assaulting someone in a VR game is still assault especially if they never consented.'
  Sarcasm?

The fact that this is even compared to real SA is so fucked up. At least on the internet or game you can leave, it's not like your forced to endure the actions or behavior of other people.

What a joke.
Real crimes are being compared to vr "crimes". Next will be thought crimes.

Are you fucking kidding me?
They took cops off of real cases to work a VIRTUAL ASSAULT in a video game. (just harassment, not assault btw)
JFC I hope we fucking get nuked soon. We don't deserve to live.
- Can you at least agree that this is a case of harassment and cyber bullying?
  Ah have you tried putting yourself in that person's shoes at all and try to imagine how their experience might have felt like?
  I don't know about you, but if I was 16 and went into a VR environment, where you practically feel like you're really there, with the intention to have some fun with friends, and a bunch of grown ass men started getting together and simulated a rape with explicit violent language, I would probably not feel very happy or secure. I'd probably log out feeling pretty dirty and uncomfortable. Basically the same kind of feeling you'd get from any form of sexual assault in real life.
  What happened in that VR environment was done by real people who thought it was okay to sexually assault a teenage girl, even if it was virtual. They're basically rape apologists and are enabling rape culture. Realizing the fact there are men like this is scary enough to be traumatized and never trust men again.
  
  Did you read my comment or just go on a text block spree without finishing it?
  For reference:
  "... They took cops off of real cases to work a VIRTUAL ASSAULT in a video game. (just harassment, not assault btw)"
  Pretending like this is a problem that requires police intervention is easily one of the most immature and incompetent things I've ever seen.
  You know video games have moderators right?
  
  You don't have to socialize with those people.
  You have the tools at your disposal to control who you interact with online.

- Every GTA player sweating bullets right now.

I just feel like this would set a negative precedent for interactions in online games. Idk tho, not a lawyer.

Oh for fucks sake

It's harassment. The game or platform should ban or punish the user. This should be protected under free speech. It's still disgusting though.
- why would sexually harassing children fall under free speech? I agree with you that it's not assault, but even in the absence of assault this behavior wouldn't be protected speech in real life and it shouldn't be protected speech online
  
  It's legally protected speech. In real life, you would get the shit knocked out of you, and rightfully so. In online, the most they can do is virtually beat them up or ban from the servers.
  Edit: it depends on the severity of it too iirc. Saying "nice tits" isn't as severe as "I'm going to rape the shit out of you"
- The game should ban the offender but I can't not think involving the police is a bit ridiculous and waste of resources.
  
  I'm amazed at bothering to investigate

I think harassment is probably more appropriate, unless said metaverse somehow allows the sexual assault of avatars, which I don't think exists. I mean, IIRC Second Life technically has sex animations but afaik you have to strictly opt into that stuff. People can't just go around and use your avatar for it and even then it would be the question why she went into such a place & features if she didn't wanted to.
- That's why I'm confused. What game allows it? Plus can't she just log off?

Just one count of assault? I've been teabagged online more times than I can count.

Omfg this is so absurdly stupid. What a waste of time for the police who have actual issues to be concerned with.

The article seems a bit silly, but online harassment is an actual issue and can have a big impact, especially for minors. The way it's presented, especially the Daily Mail article (“British police probe VIRTUAL rape in metaverse” and the mentioning of AI) is a significant (perhaps deliberate) misunderstanding of the problem for the sake of clicks. In reality, this situation isn't that different compared to Omgele back in the day, but instead it's compared to physical SA. I think this kind of clickbait reporting does not contribute to bringing awareness to the issue of digital harassment, nor to a greater understanding required to solve it. It's presented as a new threat (like DM likes to do), but in fact this is simply a new form of online harassment, like we've been seeing for years.
Kids as young as 8 years old are being given unsupervised access to the internet. This alone seems very unhealthy, but it also means that other individuals get access to them. Grooming and online harassment have been an issue since SMS, and probably will be. The police does not have the expertise and capacity (or perhaps motivation) required to deal with these situations. The online platforms fail at moderation, some allow users to send death threats while using some bot to block swearwords. Malicious actors rarely face any consequences online. The parents also usually don't have a clue about what their kids are doing, nor how the platforms their kids use work, which means they are unable to teach their kids what to avoid.
I believe to solve these issues, this kind of behavior should come with actual consequences. However, I don't have high hopes this will help soon. I therefore believe education also plays a role, both for the parent and their children. Kids should learn about social norms for the internet and what to do when people disregard them, and parents should have the knowledge to help them. The platforms themselves should also take action, the amount of moderators on social media is pathetic. Facebook has millions of users but only has 54 moderators (spanning all their services including Instagram) to moderate posts in my country's language. Current social media is a breeding ground for disinformation, rage, and harassment, not because it's impossible not to, but because all major platforms have switched to an engagement based algorithm.

I grabbed mossmans boobas in hl2 gmod vr the fbi are at my door help

I'm not in the metaverse and wouldn't be in VR because of cost even if I were. So, question: what exactly is supposed to have happened here? Someone's avatar pushed someone else's avatar into a virtual corner?
- In VR you can almost never actually get up in someone's face if you try either your body clips into there is because neither of you have an effective physical presence in the simulation (virtually no game goes that far with its realism) or you actually fade out because there is a comfort zone in the game.
  Either way you cannot directly interact with someone. Most games will have hitboxes on the hands, but nowhere else on the body so the best that you can do would be to touch someone else's hands and it's not like they can feel it.
- Not even that, I can almost guarantee they don't have movable hit boxes. It was probably the classic COD thing of teabagging or simulated thrusting by moving back and forth while talking dirty over voice comms.
  
  So edgy teens and pedos, gotcha.
- a bunch of people sexually harassed a child, calling it "virtual sexual assault" is the clickbait headline that quotes one anonymous person's opinion
- I wonder if it's a paid news item. They tried this story before didn't they, with the "free show" thing which seemed totally comical to me.

Tax dollars hard at work.

Remember when the Internet was new? Know how kids still get pedo'd now?
Setting precedent early is important. There will be billions of people in this soon enough and without regulation, it's Westworld.

Everyone is focused on if there should be legal repercussions for this, and while that's valid, there's another point to make.
It's that sexual assault, rape, sexual harassment, etc. is so heinously awful, that even in this watered down, synthetic, polygon avatar VR version of it is enough to seriously harm someone.
Being made to feel as if you're worthless, and just a piece of meat to be ogled and used for others perverted pleasure, is so fucking terribly awful, that the Nintendo 64 version will leave you forever changed for the worse.
- It's so funny that we as society are totally fine with vr murder, but vr sexual harassment is "trauma".
  
  PTSD from being shot at in a VR game. Can't wait
  
  Actually we see this happen in Tabletop RP. What might not be mentioned in the articles like this is if you are in a role playing game senario your avatar has it's own sort of history and sunk investment that people can project a fair amount of themselves and a sense of their own personhood and agency on. When someone is raped in an TTRPG senario there is zero visual or haptic element at play... But that continuity of character means that the episode, consequences and status as a victim is now a part of their character's personal history that you as the player need to reckon with in regards to other players. It is treated as an event that actually happened by other people who were participating in that space so unless there is a canonical reset (which oftentimes isn't enough to fully rewind the impact on the player) Even if the players never mention it again in play it's something that canonically happened which means at all points forward it is relevant in play and the not mentioning it isn't "this didn't happen" it's "the characters/players involved are trying to bury this and pretend it didn't happen". A lot of people put in this position have described feeling forced to be subjected to rather sordid intentions that while not directly projected on the real person behind the character are still impacted an abstraction of their personhood and it can shake their faith in the empathy and care other people in the space have towards them.
  It creates a unique issue that murdering a character doesn't. Murdering a character is something the brain is primed to see as fiction. One doesn't have to ponder how someone would get on with the business of living afterwards. You are dead. The player might mourn the loss or not depending on how much personal investment but they don't tend to treat it as themselves dying. More like that's something that happened to a friend or something of an investment of time and energy. A good character death leaves a story behind or a lot of rpgs have revolving door afterlives so the stakes are inherently lower.
  However there isn't a take backsies situation for sexual assault so it can feel very much like suddenly having to deal with a very present mental simulation of how you the player would deal with that happening to you if it were in real life. You are placed in a position to advocate for your needs against a lot of pushback. People often trivialize what happened which gives the impression that if something like that actually did happen to you a lot less people would have your back then you would hope because even when the stakes are nil people will be perfectly fine trying to protect the person or people who did you dirty.
  A lot of folks put in that position find their actual ability to participate in the hobby impacted as they either leave their established social circles for how shit being placed in that situation them feel or they become table shy, being suspicious of game masters and players they can't trust not to pull the same stunt. A gaming group can very easily fall apart if a player character is raped inside the narrative of the game which has created a rise in the use of safety tools to make sure no one at the table gets actually hurt.

So I guess the meta verse finally got around to adding legs to the avatars?

In a game?? I kinda understand harrasment over the phone or messages or whatever, but in the game? Just change servers or fucking turn off your pc, lmao. Games are not a real place
- Over the phone?? Just change phone numbers or hang up your phone. You aren't even in the same place.
  
  These are not the same things, if you're afraid of being stalked that can happen regardless of how you interact online.
  This isn't real SA, this is a perversion of the law.
  
  Not even close to being the same thing is it.
  One of them is pressing the button the other is more complicated and more problematic for your life.
  
  I know right? Just turn off your fucking phone and change number and deal with having to send all your contacts your new number. So easy, lol. Totally the same thing as changing game server. Yup, same difficulty. You're absolutely smart.

Bottom line is adult men were engaging sexually with a minor online. Doesn't really matter if it was VR or what. Hang them all.

I am very glad I’m not dating in this day and age.
I met my partner by “sexually assaulting” someone.
She had thrown a house party. There was a guy there causing a problem. She wanted him to leave, but didn’t want a fight. This is the first time I met my now partner, but I volunteered.
The guy that needed to leave was sitting on the floor right next to a doorway. I just pulled out the ole wang jangler and leaned against the inside of the door way. My floppy bits were mere inches from his face.
He turned his head and noticed. He made a disgusted noise and moved. I chased this guy around the party with my John Thomas hanging out. Every time he sat down somewhere, there we were. After about 30 mins of that he got the picture and left.
My partner has always said that was the moment she knew she wanted to get to know me. Just to be clear it’s not huge or anything. I’m guessing it’s a confidence thing, but yeah I scared away an asshole, and convinced a woman I am the one. All by running around a party with my spicy bits hanging out.
I have a feeling that would be frowned upon these days.
Edit: Also, when I was a homeless heroin addict. My partner was the one that took me in, and paid for my treatment. That one decision has affected my life in more ways than I probably realized.

This place needs more girls.
The comments here are appalling. So many rape apologists. This is what rape culture is all about.
Y'all should be ashamed.
- I don't think you meant "appealing".
  
  No I meant appalling. Stupid autocorrect.
- Can you point to a comment that is highly upvoted and is a rape apologist?
  
  No. The simple fact that you're asking this question is proof that you're acting in bad faith.
  I'm done with this thread.
- What, are you high? It's offensive to compare this to rape, it completely trivialises it. To force someone to participate in the physical act of sexual intercourse against their will, that's rape. Often with the threat or use of physical violence to ensure compliance. This will never be remotely adjacent to that until we're all wearing haptic VR speculums in every orifice.
  
  I'm not saying it's rape. The article even states it's not considered actual rape because according to the laws where this is being applied, there needs to be a physical contact.
  But it sure as hell is sexual harassment, which is a form of abuse. Furthermore it was done to an underage victim, which makes it even worse. It's perfectly acceptable to involve the police to investigate and file a complaint against the agressors.
- This was the final straw for me to leave lemmy. I tried to give it a chance, even with all the radical idiots around, but it's not worth it.
  Lemmy will be known for its extremist users and will never break critical mass.
  If you take the dumbest assholes of reddit and group them up, you get Lemmy.
  
  Honestly, I've had worst experiences on Reddit. The communities I'm part of are generally pretty chill. But, they're generally smaller ones with a few users.
  When you end up on bigger communities like this one with a larger user base, you're bound to find a larger sample of... questionable people with questionable opinions and values. And they're usually the more vocal ones making it seem like the community is made up of rotten people.
  
  LOL random off topic attack message from an insecure person.
  
  Found the incel!

Put her into a halo or cod lobby, show her a glimpse of what actuality harrasment let alone assault looks like.
If this woman actually thinks this was sexual assault than she's lucky to have never had been an actual victim.

What game is this ? I want to play.
- You want to commit virtual rape? Are you for real dude?
  When women talk about toxic masculinity and rape culture, this is exactly what they mean.
  
  We actually could make a game about raping people. Do you think raping someone in a game would be illegal? it's not illegal to kill someone in a game.
- Seems like you need to visit the horny jail.