Study: 87% of classic video games are not legally available
87% Missing: the Disappearance of Classic Video Games | Video Game History Foundation
cross-posted from: https://radiation.party/post/41704
[ comments | sourced from HackerNews
Copyright laws desperately need to be updated to account for scenarios like these. Although, to many people piracy is undesirable, I take no issue with anyone using this method to acquire content that is otherwise unavailable.
Yep. A lot of streaming services recently have been taking shows and films off the service and burry them as a tax write off. In my world if they write it off they should have to put it in public domain. If they can still sue people who copy it then it obviously has value to the rights owner still.
Unfortunately I'm not expecting those laws to ever change for the better.
and they won't as long as lobbying is legal and legislators are all in the pockets of big companies
The only times I allow it myself are in this case (zero legal availability) and for unofficial/fan translations of games not available in your home region/language. Nobody would be getting your money anyway, no theft of compensation/profits there. If any games do become available, though, then we should support them. The more we put our money where our mouth is for a return to market for these games, the more incentive there is for companies to bring more of them back.
This may be hot take, but I think games are art and are part of our cultural legacy, and making steps that stops us from enjoying us from that legacy should be considered a crime, especially when they put at risk art disappearing forever.
I would start with simple rules:
As a result, I would expect all companies to either invest in backward compatibility on unprecedented level, or more likely start porting their games to PC (because they will keep being produced), even if that meant selling copies to be used with emulators. When there is money on the table, or perspective of losing money, corporations are really quick to find solutions.
Emulators are not illegal, where did you get that from?
There are legal problems when creating emulators, sure people work hard to avoid them, but I don't think they should have to do that in those cases, so I specifically wrote "all emulators" should be legal. For example, Dolphin to work requires cryptographic keys that technically belong to Nintendo, so they may be sued for providing them. Some emulators require you to find bios on your own because they can't legally provide them, and their emulator doesn't work without it.
This isn't necessarily always true. PCSX2, the main PS2 emulator, for example needs a BIOS file that can only be obtained from an actual PS2 (or "illegally"). I'm not sure why that emulator requires it when others don't. The closest thing to an explanation I could find online just said "legal issues", but didn't go into details. That makes me suspect that there was pushback from Sony about the emulator. So if such emulation laws were to be written they absolutely should protect in stone the right to create and use emulators. If a company can find a loophole to block you, they will.
We need a use-it-or-lose-it clause for all copyrights. If the rights holder is not making a good faith effort to sell copies, they should forfeit their copyright entirely and the work in question goes straight to the public domain. 5 years is generous, I'd make the grace period 6 months.
This is how you get Fantastic Four (1994)
I'd take it a step further and say we need a good default license that kicks in after a certain amount of time has passed until the end of the copyright (at which point no license at all is required).
The price of the license will just be based on a formula that takes revenue and portion of the end product that uses the copyright material into account. So someone issuing their own print of a book that came out would pay more than someone who publishes a fan fic sequel and just uses the characters.
And trademarks still strictly enforced, since copying that is trying to pass yourself off as another producer, or fraud. Trademarks are how the original author and the good derivative works will be differentiated from the shitty ones.
Emulators are not illegal. ROMs are illegal if you didn’t rip it yourself. If you did rip it yourself it’s a gray area. See https://youtu.be/yj9Gk84jRiE
I think that these rules are unnecessarily over-complicating the problem. IMO, the best solution would be to amend copyright legislation to include a similar clause to the one found in the 'fair dealing' exemption of many Commonwealth countries - i.e "Can the work or adaptation be obtained within a reasonable time at an ordinary commercial price?" If not, copying the game is not an infringing act.
This strikes me as weird and unnecessarily convoluted. IMO the best solution would be to limit corporate held copyrights to 10 years after first publication or 15 years after creation, whichever is sooner, and limit individually held copyrights to the life of the creator. After that's up, the work becomes public domain, and people can freely post it without repercussions, meaning the masses will handle archival and distribution essentially without prompting. Simple, with very few loopholes as far as I can see.
Or limit copyright terms to 20 years and repeal Section 1201 (together with 512 for good measure). That would cover far more than just old games.
As a result, I would expect all companies to either invest in backward compatibility on unprecedented level, or more likely start porting their games to PC (because they will keep being produced), even if that meant selling copies to be used with emulators. When there is money on the table, or perspective of losing money, corporations are really quick to find solutions.
We're already there. Backwards compatibility is the highest it's ever been. With the rise of digital stores, popular retro games are on every platform that publishers think they can make money on. Re-releases of popular classics seem to happen all the time.
However, the sad reality is vast majority of those 87% wouldn't be profitable to release. They are the games that sold poorly on release or have been out of the spotlight for so long that most people have forgotten they even exist. There needs to be work porting the release to new platforms, there are licenses to pay for music and licensed characters. I have no idea if residuals are a thing for video games but if they exist they cost money too. If a game hasn't been re-released at this point, it's not becuase there is some backwards compatibility issue; it's because the bean counters have decided the cost of porting outweighs any sales it may generate. There is no "money left on the table" for them as it would cost more to port than they believe the game's re-release would ever make. Those games will never be legally re-released and should fall into some sort of public domain.
This may be hot take, but I think games are art and are part of our cultural legacy, and making steps that stops us from enjoying us from that legacy should be considered a crime, especially when they put at risk art disappearing forever.
How can I reconcile it with, say, as a private entity, I have the right to withhold sharing my ideas or creations for whatever reason?
You have the right to withhold sharing your creations. If you never release anything at all then the above would not apply. This is about if you release something then years later stop making it available and prevent anybody from ever making a copy again.
(And the reason for that distinction is sound: the unreleased work is like nothing ever existed, the released work is part of the public culture.)
Why should the government be enlisted to prevent the distribution of work?
The whole reason for copyright to exist is to provide a means for people to make money on their cultural work. How is society made better by removing works from the public?
This kind of thing (and e-waste in general) is why I think we need radical laws about unsupported hardware in general.
If an electronic device (phone, laptop, etc) stops receiving software support, the most recently available firmware should be made freely available under public domain.
Apple is obviously the worst offender, but it's just horrible when you have really great hardware that's 100% worthless just because the software is unsupported and proprietary.
The number of iPads, smart home products, and other devices that become e-waste every year is unsustainable. If companies were forced to release the code for free when they stopped supporting devices, maybe they would support them longer. Or at least bother innovating for a change.
This is only going to get worse with modern games. Always online to servers that won't exist. Digital only copies you won't be able to download.
Not only should the firmware be made available, I think if you are taking servers offline you should be required to release the source code.
I can still play my N64 and PS3 games with physical copies, but many on PS4 are basically unplayable without the day one patch at least
Ubisoft has made it clear, "Well, if you want to play Assasins Creed, or Farcry, we expect you to play the new ones".
Well, in both cases, the new ones are ass and I want to play the old ones, that I paid for.
As others have said on here, once the product is no longer supported, I feel the rights to that software should pass to the community.
I write code for a living, and when I'm done, the client owns that software. I hand over all the source code as part of close out. If they want me to maintain it, fine. If the want to go with someone else, its theirs to do with as they please.
This kind of thing (and e-waste in general) is why I think we need radical laws about unsupported hardware in general.
Agreed. Out of market for over a 10 years? The game is made public and preserved in a government library that is available to the public as a service.
Apple is obviously the worst offender, but it’s just horrible when you have really great hardware that’s 100% worthless just because the software is unsupported and proprietary.
How so? Because they produce hardware that one would actually like to use after firmware updates cease? They provide updates the longest and are evidently not worthless, as they have higher resale values than Android devices the same age.
Jesus that’s depressing. Thank god for the Internet or wonder how much of that 87% would already be lost forever.
Think of everything lost from even recent eras without the internet! Like 99% of what we've made, even in the domain of awesome impactful stuff, must have been lost to time
Copyright as it is today is one of humanity's worst mistake.
You can actually blame Disney for much of this.
Well, humanity did make a HUGE amount of mistakes worse than current copyright, to be honest. That one’s an abomination, but we’re generally really good at ruining stuff.
that's why the "ahoy mateys" system exists
This is why emulation is important.
There's likely a lot of "shovelware" in that figure, which doesn't mean it shouldn't be preserved but that could be 1 reason the percentage is so high. There were a ton of DS and Wii games nobody would recognize today
Sure, but one person's shovelware is another person's cherished childhood. We should preserve what's been created as much as reasonably possible, simply for the record.
Ah, dem shovelware packs.
Most classic everything is no longer available. This is a function of time and the general human desire to make new stuff. Otherwise antiques wouldn't really be special.
If we want our stuff more permanent, this will be a change from the past that we need to specifically enact. Otherwise it's just people being subtly out-of-touch with how time will eventually destroy not just them, but their works too. Only the influences it left behind echo into the future, for as long as our art does anyway.
This is a new trend thanks to so many products requiring web services to function. Back in the day the only thing that made products inaccessible was the fact they were not produced.
Nowadays a lot of stuff is just a useless brick purely because an unnecessary web endpoint has been shut down. Especially video games.
The difference here is that the data exists still and can be played via emulators still. However, it violates copyright laws to do so. It has nothing to do with “time destroying all works” (at least not yet)
Good point. And with continuous maintenance to keep the ever growing number of emulators maintained with the ever-shifting operating systems, that will remain true. The moment our maintenance of any one thing stops...
If we want our stuff more permanent, this will be a change from the past that we need to specifically enact.
It’s being done for a lot of stuff, just not videogames.
From the linked article:
Libraries and archives can digitally preserve, but not digitally share video games, and can provide on-premises access only
Libraries and archives are allowed to digitally share other media types, such as books, film, and audio, and are not restricted to on-premises access
The Entertainment Software Association, the video game industry’s lobbying group, has consistently fought against expanding video game preservation within libraries and archives
He who does not pirate software steals from himself
Ah, classic Confucius.
The only games I buy these days are indie games and those by consistently based companies like fromsoft
Though on the other hand, he who pirates software leaves door wide open for hackers posing as crackers.
At first when my antivirus software started getting hits in my cracked software folder, I thought it was just the companies working together to label pirated software as something scary. It wasn't until later that I realized that the antivirus software might have just been doing what it was supposed to. Though a false positive is also possible since injecting a crack might use code that looks similar to malicious code injection, but then I wonder if all of these crackers are just doing it out of the goodness of their hearts or if even just one of them can be malicious and I honestly see them going both ways.
Now do TV
The secret is crime
I regularly donate to the Internet Archive but after reading this decided it was time to do it again!
I love the sneaky Pac-Man graph.
I wonder what proportion of the average user's rom library is from the 87%
Probably around 87% of it
now that's a real problem
Why was this cross-posted to bisexual?
i forget where i found this, maybe it was hacker news or the alien place that shall remain nameless, but someone posted this cool site https://oldgamesdownload.com/ from a similar discussion. found several obscure childhood PC games I've been desperately looking for, hasn't failed me yet... or set the sails on the right path.
This is why I say, with not a single drop of irony, that piracy is a public service.
Piracy isn't piracy when it's no longer sold.